Trey Sermon

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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Ice » Wed May 05, 2021 5:19 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bucsn ... a-bay-2020

https://www.49ers.com/news/physicality ... -nfl-draft
I could post tons of info on the player but if you don’t think he is elite in his quickness in 10 yards backed up by a lot of data I can’t help you.

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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Wed May 05, 2021 5:38 pm

Saquon Barkley is marked down as a 1.54 10 yard split, and you’re sitting there with a straight face trying to tell me 1.49 for Trey Sermon is accurate. Lmao.

In case you didn’t know (which, it seems you don’t), typically 10 yard splits are in the 1.55-1.65 range. Anything in the 1.4s is likely an error or an uber athlete like Chris Johnson or something. Most elite athletic prospects like zeke for example are in the mid-high 1.5s, and that’s at the combine. And like I said, the reporting and recording of these times is inherently suspect as a baseline.

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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby tresskid84 » Wed May 05, 2021 5:55 pm

yeah, the shorter the distance, the greater the room for error becomes. doesn't mean that the first 10 yards isn't more important than the final 30, but it does mean the reported numbers are going to be highly susceptible to errors and inconsistency. Only way to truly do it would be overlapping videos or something like that, though I'm no video editor, so i dont even know if thats true, lol.
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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Ice » Wed May 05, 2021 6:07 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:38 pm Saquon Barkley is marked down as a 1.54 10 yard split, and you’re sitting there with a straight face trying to tell me 1.49 for Trey Sermon is accurate. Lmao.

In case you didn’t know (which, it seems you don’t), typically 10 yard splits are in the 1.55-1.65 range. Anything in the 1.4s is likely an error or an uber athlete like Chris Johnson or something. Most elite athletic prospects like zeke for example are in the mid-high 1.5s, and that’s at the combine. And like I said, the reporting and recording of these times is inherently suspect as a baseline.
I am actually amazed you have no concept of quickness vs long speed. What you are saying is actually ridiculous. You are making sound like 1 human is at the controls of a stop watch or electronic timer.

Its like timing and O Linemen, a pop time for catcher, or the first 3 steps for a 1st or 3rd baseman.

We all get you don't think it matters. 32 professional football teams and all baseball teams disagree with you so there is that I guess.

PFF has him verified in the 94% percentile in quickness so there is also that. Does it mean he can play football, no but then again the 49's moved up considerably to draft the runner with 2 left feet. :wave:
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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Wed May 05, 2021 6:35 pm

Ice wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:07 pm
Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:38 pm Saquon Barkley is marked down as a 1.54 10 yard split, and you’re sitting there with a straight face trying to tell me 1.49 for Trey Sermon is accurate. Lmao.

In case you didn’t know (which, it seems you don’t), typically 10 yard splits are in the 1.55-1.65 range. Anything in the 1.4s is likely an error or an uber athlete like Chris Johnson or something. Most elite athletic prospects like zeke for example are in the mid-high 1.5s, and that’s at the combine. And like I said, the reporting and recording of these times is inherently suspect as a baseline.
I am actually amazed you have no concept of quickness vs long speed. What you are saying is actually ridiculous. You are making sound like 1 human is at the controls of a stop watch or electronic timer.

Its like timing and O Linemen, a pop time for catcher, or the first 3 steps for a 1st or 3rd baseman.

We all get you don't think it matters. 32 professional football teams and all baseball teams disagree with you so there is that I guess.

PFF has him verified in the 94% percentile in quickness so there is also that. Does it mean he can play football, no but then again the 49's moved up considerably to draft the runner with 2 left feet. :wave:


This guy is really dense, isn’t he.

I never said it didn’t matter. I said there is no guarantee that what you are referencing (10 yard split) is timed, recorded, reported or stored accurately. Particularly when comparing two different classes and even more so when those two different classes are in two different settings (combine and pro day). Are you just playing dumb or do you actually not understand what I’m telling you. I’m genuinely confused.

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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Wed May 05, 2021 6:37 pm

There’s absolutely zero evidence that 10 yard splits correlate with fantasy success at the RB position.

Unless you’re going to provide some evidence that they correlate- which would be a welcome contribution!- you should stop using them to support an argument. It’s irrelevant and it makes everybody who listens to it a little bit worse at this game.
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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby mild » Wed May 05, 2021 6:42 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:35 pm This guy is really dense, isn’t he.
Thanks for fighting the good fight.

I'm learning something from what your posting, at least! :thumbup:

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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Wed May 05, 2021 6:51 pm

I did dig into this a few years back, and while a 10-yard split in the 1.5s is ideal, it’s not a deal breaker either if it’s not. I know chubbs 10 yard split was notoriously slow for a guy with his speed (recorded as 1.63 if I remember right). I also went to dig into the numbers and would run into entire draft classes where a bunch had 1.4x 10 yard splits which didn’t make any sense. Some years they were all faster or slower (by an amount that made no sense). Some draft classes the 10 yard splits flat out weren’t recorded. I eventually abandoned the idea. I do think a faster 10 yard split is better, in general, but can’t really prove it.

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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Ice » Wed May 05, 2021 7:01 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:35 pm
Ice wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:07 pm
Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:38 pm Saquon Barkley is marked down as a 1.54 10 yard split, and you’re sitting there with a straight face trying to tell me 1.49 for Trey Sermon is accurate. Lmao.

In case you didn’t know (which, it seems you don’t), typically 10 yard splits are in the 1.55-1.65 range. Anything in the 1.4s is likely an error or an uber athlete like Chris Johnson or something. Most elite athletic prospects like zeke for example are in the mid-high 1.5s, and that’s at the combine. And like I said, the reporting and recording of these times is inherently suspect as a baseline.
I am actually amazed you have no concept of quickness vs long speed. What you are saying is actually ridiculous. You are making sound like 1 human is at the controls of a stop watch or electronic timer.

Its like timing and O Linemen, a pop time for catcher, or the first 3 steps for a 1st or 3rd baseman.

We all get you don't think it matters. 32 professional football teams and all baseball teams disagree with you so there is that I guess.

PFF has him verified in the 94% percentile in quickness so there is also that. Does it mean he can play football, no but then again the 49's moved up considerably to draft the runner with 2 left feet. :wave:


This guy is really dense, isn’t he.

I never said it didn’t matter. I said there is no guarantee that what you are referencing (10 yard split) is timed, recorded, reported or stored accurately. Particularly when comparing two different classes and even more so when those two different classes are in two different settings (combine and pro day). Are you just playing dumb or do you actually not understand what I’m telling you. I’m genuinely confused.
The entire point is/was the 49's liked his 1st step quickness. You have been ranting about how times differ.. No Sh// Sherlock..... Different people are running. The fact does remain he ran a better 10 yard split than any but one last year of the RB's. You can dispute that, claim it is not true or meaningless all you like but the known information is out there and it is published.

I never claimed he was a great player but you're actually the dense one if you do not understand teams use this information as a tool in their toolbox when looking at different players.

I don't personally care if you want to go into attack mode as it makes you look ridiculous.

The reality is Scouts look at way more information than you obviously think they do. Many actually value quickness and are smart enough to accurately measure it regardless of what you believe or think.

I get you think you're the smartest poster ever...Why do you think the 49's gave up a couple of 4th round picks to move up in the 80's to draft the player?
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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Ice » Wed May 05, 2021 7:12 pm

OhCruelestRanter wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:37 pm There’s absolutely zero evidence that 10 yard splits correlate with fantasy success at the RB position.

Unless you’re going to provide some evidence that they correlate- which would be a welcome contribution!- you should stop using them to support an argument. It’s irrelevant and it makes everybody who listens to it a little bit worse at this game.
I think your posts are trolling.

No one claimed this has anything to do with fantasy success.
I do stand by that the 49's love his 1st step quickness and it was a big reason they moved up significantly to acquire the player.

Here is a quote from the 49's GM
"Sometimes 40 times can be deceiving," 49ers general manager John Lynch said Friday. "I think what speaks to us is his 10-time was very good. You see that burst. You see that ability to stick his foot in the ground, break tackles and hit it in a hurry.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/1 ... ck-sermon/
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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Jigga94 » Wed May 05, 2021 7:21 pm

Ice wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:01 pm
Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:35 pm
Ice wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:07 pm

I am actually amazed you have no concept of quickness vs long speed. What you are saying is actually ridiculous. You are making sound like 1 human is at the controls of a stop watch or electronic timer.

Its like timing and O Linemen, a pop time for catcher, or the first 3 steps for a 1st or 3rd baseman.

We all get you don't think it matters. 32 professional football teams and all baseball teams disagree with you so there is that I guess.

PFF has him verified in the 94% percentile in quickness so there is also that. Does it mean he can play football, no but then again the 49's moved up considerably to draft the runner with 2 left feet. :wave:


This guy is really dense, isn’t he.

I never said it didn’t matter. I said there is no guarantee that what you are referencing (10 yard split) is timed, recorded, reported or stored accurately. Particularly when comparing two different classes and even more so when those two different classes are in two different settings (combine and pro day). Are you just playing dumb or do you actually not understand what I’m telling you. I’m genuinely confused.
The entire point is/was the 49's liked his 1st step quickness. You have been ranting about how times differ.. No Sh// Sherlock..... Different people are running. The fact does remain he ran a better 10 yard split than any but one last year of the RB's. You can dispute that, claim it is not true or meaningless all you like but the known information is out there and it is published.
Do you have a resource for this?

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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Wed May 05, 2021 7:29 pm

Ice wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:12 pm
OhCruelestRanter wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:37 pm There’s absolutely zero evidence that 10 yard splits correlate with fantasy success at the RB position.

Unless you’re going to provide some evidence that they correlate- which would be a welcome contribution!- you should stop using them to support an argument. It’s irrelevant and it makes everybody who listens to it a little bit worse at this game.
You're such a troll.

No one claimed this has anything to do with fantasy success.
I do stand by that the 49's love his 1st step quickness and it was a big reason they moved up significantly to acquire the player.

Here is a quote from the 49's GM
"Sometimes 40 times can be deceiving," 49ers general manager John Lynch said Friday. "I think what speaks to us is his 10-time was very good. You see that burst. You see that ability to stick his foot in the ground, break tackles and hit it in a hurry.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/1 ... ck-sermon/
…this is a fantasy football site, no? Why mention metrics that aren’t predictive? It’s useless, and a waste of everybody’s time. You could replace 10 yard splint with “number of consonants in his middle name” and it would be just as relevant to the discussion of Sermon on a fantasy football website.

But here: There’s no evidence that 10 yard splits matter for RBs in fantasy football or in the NFL. If you can prove that I’m wrong, great. I’d like to learn something. If you can’t, (spoiler: you can’t) you should stop wasting time with useless information and relying on name calling when somebody disagrees with you.
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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Ice » Wed May 05, 2021 7:36 pm

Jigga94 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:21 pm

Do you have a resource for this?
Here you go: You will need to click on RB's to see all their recorded splits. They typically display the best time. You can also see a quote directly from Lynch above your post.

https://steelersdepot.com/2020-nfl-scou ... s-tracker/

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/trey-sermon
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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Ice » Wed May 05, 2021 7:49 pm

OhCruelestRanter wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:29 pm
Ice wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:12 pm
OhCruelestRanter wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:37 pm There’s absolutely zero evidence that 10 yard splits correlate with fantasy success at the RB position.

Unless you’re going to provide some evidence that they correlate- which would be a welcome contribution!- you should stop using them to support an argument. It’s irrelevant and it makes everybody who listens to it a little bit worse at this game.
You're such a troll.

No one claimed this has anything to do with fantasy success.
I do stand by that the 49's love his 1st step quickness and it was a big reason they moved up significantly to acquire the player.

Here is a quote from the 49's GM
"Sometimes 40 times can be deceiving," 49ers general manager John Lynch said Friday. "I think what speaks to us is his 10-time was very good. You see that burst. You see that ability to stick his foot in the ground, break tackles and hit it in a hurry.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/1 ... ck-sermon/
…this is a fantasy football site, no? Why mention metrics that aren’t predictive? It’s useless, and a waste of everybody’s time. You could replace 10 yard splint with “number of consonants in his middle name” and it would be just as relevant to the discussion of Sermon on a fantasy football website.

But here: There’s no evidence that 10 yard splits matter for RBs in fantasy football or in the NFL. If you can prove that I’m wrong, great. I’d like to learn something. If you can’t, (spoiler: you can’t) you should stop wasting time with useless information and relying on name calling when somebody disagrees with you.
This thread is about a RB.

It isn't your place to determine what is discussed. The fact he was selected well ahead of where many believed and the price paid by the team does show the team is interested in the player and will most likely use him which is fantasy relevant.

Why a team selects a player will provide the more experienced players in fantasy some insight in how they may utilize a player which may help the owner in where the player ultimately gets ranked.

If you don't want to read it then don't but believe it or not many would rather read a take about why a team may like a player than reading drivel from some poster asking permission to speak.
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Re: Trey Sermon

Postby Hottoddies » Wed May 05, 2021 8:08 pm

This is one of the most ridicules arguments ever. Ice is saying that 10 yard split quickness is a highly desirable trait for a RB. I totally agree. I believe most reasonable people, including Dynasty DeLorean, would agree. However, what Dynasty Delorean is saying, is that no matter how value those numbers are, those numbers can't be trusted to be accurate. Due to the ambiguous start time, short distance, and different timing methods; I believe this may be true as well. It is in the realm of possibilities for both positions to be true at the same time. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on this one , Ice.

edit: other than the CruelestRanter ... but that's what he does
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