My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:38 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 am
killer_of_giants wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:48 am williams is just another montgomery, maybe a bit better (i like his power more). can do a bit of this and a bit of that, but has nothing special going for him (some will say "contact balance", that's good, but when that's your best trait, it generally means "slow": montgomery and singletary have great contact balance).
This is awesome that you mentioned this. One of the first names I thought of when watching Williams was Montgomery, except more power, and maybe less lateral quickness and smaller burst. Literally the same thought you had. I then thought a better version of Jamaal Williams.

He's definitely in that vicinity for me.
This is awesome? What are you guys watching? I posted highlight reels of Montgomery and Williams below. I’m not sure how you watch both and see similar running styles. Montgomery is an east/west runner who has to slow to change directions laterally and then regain speed as he finds a seam outside. Williams is a dedicated north/south runner who looks to make at most one cut and then head upfield. Watching the two, it’s easy to see how much quicker Williams gets into attack mode and headed through the hole and upfield than Montgomery was. Much more decisive and more physical.

Montgomery highlight reel

Williams highlight reel

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby killer_of_giants » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:52 am

realmacaroni wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:21 am
killer_of_giants wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:48 am williams is just another montgomery, maybe a bit better (i like his power more). can do a bit of this and a bit of that, but has nothing special going for him (some will say "contact balance", that's good, but when that's your best trait, it generally means "slow": montgomery and singletary have great contact balance).

and since i started with comparisons, etienne is just a rashaad penny (hopefully for him without the injuries), which i think is good, and harris is the jets' matt forte.
Is this a knock? Robinson finished RB4 in my league and only about as low as RB6 most anywhere u look..on the Bears. Put JWills in the right context and I’m eating up those chances
not really, just a comparison. borderline RB1/RB2 (i don't think montgomery gets close to RB5-ish again) are good to have. it's not an exciting stud, but can provide good value, though maybe a bit volume-dependent.

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby killer_of_giants » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:04 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:38 am This is awesome? What are you guys watching?
bleep knows really, i'm drunk or high most of the time!

it's a comparison, it doesn't mean they're clones. of all the nfl runningbacks, montgomery is the closest comparison i could make from the top of my head. the main point of the comparison is that they are ok/good at most things, but don't excel in anything. i agree williams is more decisive (and physical, as already stated) but i always have problems in evaluating how much does the offensive line contribute to that.

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby CL3VELANDBR0WNS » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:22 am

He's highly dependent on draft round for me. If the NFL didn't value Cam Akers, JK Dobbins, AJ Dillon, and Antonio Gibson as top-50 players last year.... they might not even like Javonte as a top 100 player. That would be a nail in the coffin for me. I wouldn't be surprised if Harris and Etienne are the only two backs to go on day 2.

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby MEuRaH » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:51 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:38 am
dlf_mikeh wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 am
killer_of_giants wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:48 am williams is just another montgomery, maybe a bit better (i like his power more). can do a bit of this and a bit of that, but has nothing special going for him (some will say "contact balance", that's good, but when that's your best trait, it generally means "slow": montgomery and singletary have great contact balance).
This is awesome that you mentioned this. One of the first names I thought of when watching Williams was Montgomery, except more power, and maybe less lateral quickness and smaller burst. Literally the same thought you had. I then thought a better version of Jamaal Williams.

He's definitely in that vicinity for me.
This is awesome? What are you guys watching? I posted highlight reels of Montgomery and Williams below. I’m not sure how you watch both and see similar running styles. Montgomery is an east/west runner who has to slow to change directions laterally and then regain speed as he finds a seam outside. Williams is a dedicated north/south runner who looks to make at most one cut and then head upfield. Watching the two, it’s easy to see how much quicker Williams gets into attack mode and headed through the hole and upfield than Montgomery was. Much more decisive and more physical.

Montgomery highlight reel

Williams highlight reel
I said "one of the first names", so there were multiple and it's not what I eventually settled on when I did my official write up for the DLF article. I saw him in uniform and then made one run, and my first impression was Monty for some reason. After watching more I morphed into several other comparables that align better, and I wondered why I thought Monty was my first reflex which seemed odd.

The fact that someone else thought that too is awesome. That means there's something about him that screams Monty and I can't figure it out. Body build? Posture? Something is there.
CL3VELANDBR0WNS wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:22 am He's highly dependent on draft round for me. If the NFL didn't value Cam Akers, JK Dobbins, AJ Dillon, and Antonio Gibson as top-50 players last year.... they might not even like Javonte as a top 100 player. That would be a nail in the coffin for me. I wouldn't be surprised if Harris and Etienne are the only two backs to go on day 2.
Good points.

Day 2, eh? I am thinking one of both of those guys could go day 1.
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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:55 am

Maybe Jordan Howard as a more north-south comp? Howard weighed in 20lbs heavier though.

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:55 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:51 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:38 am
dlf_mikeh wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 am
This is awesome that you mentioned this. One of the first names I thought of when watching Williams was Montgomery, except more power, and maybe less lateral quickness and smaller burst. Literally the same thought you had. I then thought a better version of Jamaal Williams.

He's definitely in that vicinity for me.
This is awesome? What are you guys watching? I posted highlight reels of Montgomery and Williams below. I’m not sure how you watch both and see similar running styles. Montgomery is an east/west runner who has to slow to change directions laterally and then regain speed as he finds a seam outside. Williams is a dedicated north/south runner who looks to make at most one cut and then head upfield. Watching the two, it’s easy to see how much quicker Williams gets into attack mode and headed through the hole and upfield than Montgomery was. Much more decisive and more physical.

Montgomery highlight reel

Williams highlight reel
I said "one of the first names", so there were multiple and it's not what I eventually settled on when I did my official write up for the DLF article. I saw him in uniform and then made one run, and my first impression was Monty for some reason. After watching more I morphed into several other comparables that align better, and I wondered why I thought Monty was my first reflex which seemed odd.

The fact that someone else thought that too is awesome. That means there's something about him that screams Monty and I can't figure it out. Body build? Posture? Something is there.
Let me know if you pin it down. I’m not seeing it but if there’s something there I’m missing it could change my evaluation.

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:57 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:51 am I said "one of the first names", so there were multiple and it's not what I eventually settled on when I did my official write up for the DLF article. I saw him in uniform and then made one run, and my first impression was Monty for some reason. After watching more I morphed into several other comparables that align better, and I wondered why I thought Monty was my first reflex which seemed odd.

The fact that someone else thought that too is awesome. That means there's something about him that screams Monty and I can't figure it out. Body build? Posture? Something is there.
I think it's that he doesn't have elite speed or size, but just does everything pretty well. Might not be able to excel in a bad offense, but in an average or great offense his numbers will be good.

Like Kirk Cousins at QB. Good or great in the right setup, but not elite enough to carry a team.
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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:00 am

Here’s who Williams reminds me of. Remember what his timed 40 was.

Kareem Hunt highlight reel

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby MEuRaH » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:07 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:55 amLet me know if you pin it down. I’m not seeing it but if there’s something there I’m missing it could change my evaluation.
Well I did some searching for similarities.

Monty: 5'10", 220 pounds in college, 4.63 40 yard dash.
J W: 5'10", 220 pounds in college, 4.62 40 yard dash.

Those are the only similarities I found. I guess it's just appearance and speed alone.
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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby MEuRaH » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:17 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:00 am Here’s who Williams reminds me of. Remember what his timed 40 was.

Kareem Hunt highlight reel
This is a very fair comparison for his inside game and catching ability. Hunt has more patience and seems to get small when needed. Hunt also looks quicker getting to the outside.

I like Williams as a starter in this league for sure, I just don't love him in the 1.04 rookie spot.

I keep going back and forth on this kid. He looks amazing and then I find reasons not to love him again, especially when he runs to the outside.

:wall:
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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:22 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:17 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:00 am Here’s who Williams reminds me of. Remember what his timed 40 was.

Kareem Hunt highlight reel
This is a very fair comparison for his inside game and catching ability. Hunt has more patience and seems to get small when needed. Hunt also looks quicker getting to the outside.

I like Williams as a starter in this league for sure, I just don't love him in the 1.04 rookie spot.
Just curious - where did you have Hunt in the 2017 draft? Their running styles and pass catching/route running are very similar and their combine/pro day numbers are almost identical except that Williams might be a slight shade stronger and more explosive. I know I got Hunt in the back end of the 1st round in a 14 team draft that year and thought I lucked into his dropping so far then. Of course, that was a much stronger RB class in 2017 too.

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby yinzername » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:35 am

Today i have him at 2.1/RB3 in my 12t SF ranks
SF - PPR - 12t - start10
Notable Assets in Rebuild
QB: Mahomes - Levis - Rudolph
RB: K Mitchell - J McLaughlin - C Rodriguez - Z Evans
WR: AJB - M Pittman- R Doubs - E Moore - Shaheed - C Tillman- A Iosivas
TE: MAndrews - Kraft
'24: 1.1, 1.7, 2.1, 2.6, 2.10, 3.1, 4.2, 4.7
‘25: 1 1st, 2 2nds, 2 3rds

1st YEAR START-UP
SF - PPR - 12t - start10
QB: TLaw - Purdy - Goff
RB: Chubb - D Montgomery - D Singletary - A Mattison - K Miller - R Freeman - J Hill
WR: CeeDee - Diggs - Aiyuk - Godwin - J Reed - E Moore - A Pierce - C Tillman
TE: Kittle - Kincaid

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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby MEuRaH » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:41 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:22 amJust curious - where did you have Hunt in the 2017 draft? Their running styles and pass catching/route running are very similar and their combine/pro day numbers are almost identical except that Williams might be a slight shade stronger and more explosive. I know I got Hunt in the back end of the 1st round in a 14 team draft that year and thought I lucked into his dropping so far then. Of course, that was a much stronger RB class in 2017 too.
I never made any ratings, but I drafted Hunt and made a rather long comment about how under-rated he is on my D96 league. I took him 11th. How I had him compare to others, I don't know for sure.

I love the Hunt comparison the more and more I watch videos of both. I still don't love the lateral quickness of Williams but most everything else does indeed seem to match.

You're making me hate my original write up Billy haha. Of all the opinions I've read on anything that counters what I wrote, I think yours is one of the most solid of all time. This is an excellent comparison, and you're definitely right about a lot of the similarities.

Seriously, bravo. :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: My over-valued rookie RB for 2021? Javonte Williams

Postby murphysxm » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:50 am

FiremanEd wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:05 pm
ArrylT wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:15 amIf you feel Carter is no one special - not going to disagree or disrespect your opinion. But pretending to speak for the DLF community or the fantasy community as a whole with absolute comments like that doesnt end well. You do not know the thoughts and nor do you have the ability to speak on their behalf. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Please put more thought into your posts - because the lack of effort & thought really shows through, which in turn makes it less likely people will consider you seriously.
I’m embarrassed for you. Please do better.
This crap is growing tiresome. I feel like there are some posters that feel they legit need to win every thread. It's fantsay football guys.
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