Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold - Traded to Carolina

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby Sriracha » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:09 pm

FantasyDumDum wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:01 am Image
knotts4372 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:10 am
FantasyDumDum wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:38 pm Darnold, as a rookie in 13 games last year, having only just turned 21 years old, with a very lackluster supporting cast and scheme:

239/414, 57.7%, 2865y, 17 TD, 15 Int, 138y rushing, 1 TD.

Extrapolated to 16 games that is:

3500+y, 21 TD, 18.4 Int, 170y rushing, 1.2 TD.



I think it’s fair to expect Darnold to be in the 550 attempts, 4000y, 30TD, 10 Int, 200y rushing, 2 TD area starting likely in 2020 while building towards that eventuality this year. That would make him a mid QB2 this year and low QB1 going forward next year, with partially high upside due to his talent and age and partially low upside because of his situation under Gase for the time being.


I’m buying.
i dont think its fair at all to EXPECT the gaudy numbers you think of. those number would make him a top 10 qb going by last years numbers while having one of the worst wr groups in the nfl. the numbers you quote are all way too high to expect from him imo and his ints will undoubtedly be more than just 10.

imo his numbers to reasonably expect would be more along the line of 3300-3500 yds, 22-25 td, 15-18 int. thats what i expect from him at least. not saying he cant put up more just i dont anticipate him doing so
Next year Darnold will have the following changes, all positive:

No longer youngest QB in NFL history and no longer a rookie starting day 1 in the NFL, adding LeVeon Bell and Jamison Crowder, getting 16 games from each of Enunwa and Anderson instead of 19 games combined between them, his up and coming TE will be in his 2nd year rather than rookie year, his abysmal OL is better after adding Osemele and new OL coach.

These were his starters last year:
RB Crowell, Powell, McGuire
WR Anderson, Enunwa, Kearse
TE Herndon

These are his starters this year:
RB Bell, Montgomery, McGuire, Powell
WR Anderson, Crowder, Enunwa
TE Herndon

That’s a huge upgrade at RB and a solid one at WR, and their TE should be much improved in year 2.

Yet somehow you think he could regress from his 16 game pace in 2018 of 3526 yards, 21 TDs, 18 Ints to as bad as 3300 yards, 22 TDs, and 18 Ints?

Cmon now, that is clearly not right and not thought out at all.

It seems exceedingly unlikely that Darnold will regress to your numbers this year with everything going his way and improving for him and his situation in such dramatic fashion this year compared to last.
Pros:
1. Was the youngest QB in the NFL last season, which could account for some of his earlier season struggles.
2. Had the highest QBR in the month of December, strong finish to the season could be evidence of him "figuring things out" as he gained more experience.
3. Significant offseason upgrades could make life easier on him next season; and the Receiving core of Enunwa and Robbie Anderson is one of the most underrated in the NFL (they're not great, but they're both above average receivers)... if they can stay healthier this season this will be a much improved receiving core.

Cons:
1. QB progression isn't linear, while we should expect a big jump from year 1 to year 2, how much he improves and if he continues to improve will be a question mark.
2. Darnold's rep dating back from college was inconsistent play. Some games he looked amazing at USC, and other times he looked terrible. Is his strong finish to December just some for of variance? Or did he truly turn the corner? Odds are it's some combination of both. He certainly showed some horrific play in his rookie year to go with mesmerizing play. How much of that can we chalk up to rookie struggles remains to be seen.
3. Enunwa is a very good receiver.. but he has struggled to stay healthy throughout his career. There's a good chance this receiving core will be Crowder/Robbie Anderson for long stretches of the season; which will impact Darnold's production.
4. He's learning his second offense in 2 years. That has not been a good sign for QB development-- especially ones as young as Darnold.

I think at this point his career could go either way; and he's priced closer to his floor in Dynasty. I'm buying, but not too many people are selling.

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby knotts4372 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:07 pm

FantasyDumDum wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:01 am Image
knotts4372 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:10 am
FantasyDumDum wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:38 pm Darnold, as a rookie in 13 games last year, having only just turned 21 years old, with a very lackluster supporting cast and scheme:

239/414, 57.7%, 2865y, 17 TD, 15 Int, 138y rushing, 1 TD.

Extrapolated to 16 games that is:

3500+y, 21 TD, 18.4 Int, 170y rushing, 1.2 TD.



I think it’s fair to expect Darnold to be in the 550 attempts, 4000y, 30TD, 10 Int, 200y rushing, 2 TD area starting likely in 2020 while building towards that eventuality this year. That would make him a mid QB2 this year and low QB1 going forward next year, with partially high upside due to his talent and age and partially low upside because of his situation under Gase for the time being.


I’m buying.
i dont think its fair at all to EXPECT the gaudy numbers you think of. those number would make him a top 10 qb going by last years numbers while having one of the worst wr groups in the nfl. the numbers you quote are all way too high to expect from him imo and his ints will undoubtedly be more than just 10.

imo his numbers to reasonably expect would be more along the line of 3300-3500 yds, 22-25 td, 15-18 int. thats what i expect from him at least. not saying he cant put up more just i dont anticipate him doing so
Next year Darnold will have the following changes, all positive:

No longer youngest QB in NFL history and no longer a rookie starting day 1 in the NFL, adding LeVeon Bell and Jamison Crowder, getting 16 games from each of Enunwa and Anderson instead of 19 games combined between them, his up and coming TE will be in his 2nd year rather than rookie year, his abysmal OL is better after adding Osemele and new OL coach.

These were his starters last year:
RB Crowell, Powell, McGuire
WR Anderson, Enunwa, Kearse
TE Herndon

These are his starters this year:
RB Bell, Montgomery, McGuire, Powell
WR Anderson, Crowder, Enunwa
TE Herndon

That’s a huge upgrade at RB and a solid one at WR, and their TE should be much improved in year 2.

Yet somehow you think he could regress from his 16 game pace in 2018 of 3526 yards, 21 TDs, 18 Ints to as bad as 3300 yards, 22 TDs, and 18 Ints?

Cmon now, that is clearly not right and not thought out at all.

It seems exceedingly unlikely that Darnold will regress to your numbers this year with everything going his way and improving for him and his situation in such dramatic fashion this year compared to last.
how are my numbers i quoted at all a regression? they would all be improvements on what he did last year. you cant just protract the numbers he actually did put up last year and just say what he would have done over the games he missed. you can project what you think he would have done but to say the numbers i expect from him are a regression is far from the intent i was going for. i was merely trying to give much more realistic projections from the top 10 qb numbers you think he will put up. i think hes somewhere between 15-20th qb and fine to be a qb2. you said you thought of him as a fine qb2 as well but then the numbers you said you expect from him are above qb2 numbers.

can he put up numbers better than what i expect him to do, sure he could, but learning under a new coach and what not. i think he can and will put up better numbers in 2020 so its not like i hate darnold or anything. i just think for 2019, you expect way too much out of him
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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby knotts4372 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:08 pm

IZigUZag wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:09 pm
FantasyDumDum wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:01 am Image
knotts4372 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:10 am

i dont think its fair at all to EXPECT the gaudy numbers you think of. those number would make him a top 10 qb going by last years numbers while having one of the worst wr groups in the nfl. the numbers you quote are all way too high to expect from him imo and his ints will undoubtedly be more than just 10.

imo his numbers to reasonably expect would be more along the line of 3300-3500 yds, 22-25 td, 15-18 int. thats what i expect from him at least. not saying he cant put up more just i dont anticipate him doing so
Next year Darnold will have the following changes, all positive:

No longer youngest QB in NFL history and no longer a rookie starting day 1 in the NFL, adding LeVeon Bell and Jamison Crowder, getting 16 games from each of Enunwa and Anderson instead of 19 games combined between them, his up and coming TE will be in his 2nd year rather than rookie year, his abysmal OL is better after adding Osemele and new OL coach.

These were his starters last year:
RB Crowell, Powell, McGuire
WR Anderson, Enunwa, Kearse
TE Herndon

These are his starters this year:
RB Bell, Montgomery, McGuire, Powell
WR Anderson, Crowder, Enunwa
TE Herndon

That’s a huge upgrade at RB and a solid one at WR, and their TE should be much improved in year 2.

Yet somehow you think he could regress from his 16 game pace in 2018 of 3526 yards, 21 TDs, 18 Ints to as bad as 3300 yards, 22 TDs, and 18 Ints?

Cmon now, that is clearly not right and not thought out at all.

It seems exceedingly unlikely that Darnold will regress to your numbers this year with everything going his way and improving for him and his situation in such dramatic fashion this year compared to last.
Pros:
1. Was the youngest QB in the NFL last season, which could account for some of his earlier season struggles.
2. Had the highest QBR in the month of December, strong finish to the season could be evidence of him "figuring things out" as he gained more experience.
3. Significant offseason upgrades could make life easier on him next season; and the Receiving core of Enunwa and Robbie Anderson is one of the most underrated in the NFL (they're not great, but they're both above average receivers)... if they can stay healthier this season this will be a much improved receiving core.

Cons:
1. QB progression isn't linear, while we should expect a big jump from year 1 to year 2, how much he improves and if he continues to improve will be a question mark.
2. Darnold's rep dating back from college was inconsistent play. Some games he looked amazing at USC, and other times he looked terrible. Is his strong finish to December just some for of variance? Or did he truly turn the corner? Odds are it's some combination of both. He certainly showed some horrific play in his rookie year to go with mesmerizing play. How much of that can we chalk up to rookie struggles remains to be seen.
3. Enunwa is a very good receiver.. but he has struggled to stay healthy throughout his career. There's a good chance this receiving core will be Crowder/Robbie Anderson for long stretches of the season; which will impact Darnold's production.
4. He's learning his second offense in 2 years. That has not been a good sign for QB development-- especially ones as young as Darnold.

I think at this point his career could go either way; and he's priced closer to his floor in Dynasty. I'm buying, but not too many people are selling.
even better response
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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby Phaded » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:08 pm

I'm not doing anything with Darnold - don't own him anywhere, don't plan to.
He might work out; but simply put - I wasn't a fan of him coming out of college. In fact, outside of Baker; I didn't like any of the QBs last year.

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby TheNuts » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:56 pm

FantasyDumDum wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:01 am Image
knotts4372 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:10 am
FantasyDumDum wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:38 pm Darnold, as a rookie in 13 games last year, having only just turned 21 years old, with a very lackluster supporting cast and scheme:

239/414, 57.7%, 2865y, 17 TD, 15 Int, 138y rushing, 1 TD.

Extrapolated to 16 games that is:

3500+y, 21 TD, 18.4 Int, 170y rushing, 1.2 TD.



I think it’s fair to expect Darnold to be in the 550 attempts, 4000y, 30TD, 10 Int, 200y rushing, 2 TD area starting likely in 2020 while building towards that eventuality this year. That would make him a mid QB2 this year and low QB1 going forward next year, with partially high upside due to his talent and age and partially low upside because of his situation under Gase for the time being.


I’m buying.
i dont think its fair at all to EXPECT the gaudy numbers you think of. those number would make him a top 10 qb going by last years numbers while having one of the worst wr groups in the nfl. the numbers you quote are all way too high to expect from him imo and his ints will undoubtedly be more than just 10.

imo his numbers to reasonably expect would be more along the line of 3300-3500 yds, 22-25 td, 15-18 int. thats what i expect from him at least. not saying he cant put up more just i dont anticipate him doing so
Next year Darnold will have the following changes, all positive:

No longer youngest QB in NFL history and no longer a rookie starting day 1 in the NFL, adding LeVeon Bell and Jamison Crowder, getting 16 games from each of Enunwa and Anderson instead of 19 games combined between them, his up and coming TE will be in his 2nd year rather than rookie year, his abysmal OL is better after adding Osemele and new OL coach.

These were his starters last year:
RB Crowell, Powell, McGuire
WR Anderson, Enunwa, Kearse
TE Herndon

These are his starters this year:
RB Bell, Montgomery, McGuire, Powell
WR Anderson, Crowder, Enunwa
TE Herndon

That’s a huge upgrade at RB and a solid one at WR, and their TE should be much improved in year 2.

Yet somehow you think he could regress from his 16 game pace in 2018 of 3526 yards, 21 TDs, 18 Ints to as bad as 3300 yards, 22 TDs, and 18 Ints?

Cmon now, that is clearly not right and not thought out at all.

It seems exceedingly unlikely that Darnold will regress to your numbers this year with everything going his way and improving for him and his situation in such dramatic fashion this year compared to last.
It seems unlikely unless you scouted him as a poor qb coming out. Blaine Gabbert, Blake Bortles whatever high pick bust 2.0
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Murray, Minshew
Singletary, Lindsay, Samuels, Ty Johnson
Chark, Arob, Woods, Diontae, Nkeal, Lazard, Conley, Cole, Dorsett
Higbee, Jarwin, Dissly
Gould, Patriots

14 team ppr superflex, .2 ppc, WR 25% ppr bonus, TE ppr bonus 75%

Mayfield, Minshew, Trubisky, Foles, Hill
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Matt Ryan
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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby ericanadian » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:10 pm

Might be worth pointing out that the three games he missed were against the Bills who allowed the least amount of passing yards in the NFL, the Titans, who allowed the 6th least amount of passing and the Pats who utterly dominated him in their week seventeen matchup. I think taking his actual stats and projecting them out is a fairly significant mistake in this case as he would’ve been very unlikely to put up his average in those three missed games in my opinion.
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QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby smallxl » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:47 pm

djeternal2 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:11 pm I'm buying him. I like what I saw out of him after he came back from the injury late last year and they gave him a solid weapon in Bell. I don't disagree that changing systems after 1 year is not good for a developing QB; but, it's not the end of the world either.
Buying as well
22-man, 12-team, 1 pt-PPR; Start 1-2RB; 3-4 WR; 1-2 TE

TEAM 1
QB: Prescott, Foles
RB: Barkley, P Barber, Duke, Gio Bernard, Gus, C Thompson, Breida, Ekeler
WR: A Cooper, Cooks, Lockett, C. Davis, Crowder, Chark, Stills
TE: OJ Howard

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby BigBawseRoss » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:30 am

i havent been buying or selling i think hes a hold wait and see type guy. owners want a lot for him and hes not worth it yet so not many deals to be done.
team 1
12 team, 1 pt for 4 rec, 0.1 per rush
1qb, 3 rb, 4 wr, te, k, 4 idp
Dak , Herbert
Achane, Breece Hall, KW3Kyren,Ford, Miller, Spiller, z evans, singletary
J Jefferson, Diggs, DK, D Smith Puka, C Watson, E Moore
Njoku , HH, Engram

2024 picks
1,3,4,5,5,6,7 (all late mostly)

team 2
12 team .5ppr
qb, 2 rb, 2 wr, te, flx,flx,
Fields, Dak
Ford,Mixon, Javonte, Mostert, Chubb, Spears
Hopkins, Evans, g Wilson Mingo, shaheed, Jamo
Kelce,McBride, Chig,


1,2,3,3,5

team 3
14 team sf, even scoring idp to offense (rb scores highly too)
Josh Allen, A Rich, Foles, Rudolph
Bijan, Charbs, Spears, Ebner
J Williams, G Wilson, C Watson, Flowers, J Addison, Tillman
Kincaid, Kolar, Ruckert, Fergeson

Kenny Clark, josh allen, jaelen phillips, felix a-u and a bunch of fluff and rookie fliers at idp

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby jetsfan5757 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:08 pm

As a Jets fan I'm cautiously optimistic.

Love the way he finished his season. Love some of the scrambling improvisation ability he showed. I think he has plenty of arm talent. He does need to cut down on turnovers and he did a better job last 4 games.

I personally think the future is bright.
Dynasty League (25 man rosters + 2 IR, non-PPR scoring. QB/3RB/3WR/2TE/K/DB/LB/DL no flex)

QB (1): Herbert, Lawrence, Darnold
RB (3): N. Chubb, D. Henry, J. Taylor, JK Dobbins, Pollard, Singletary, L. Murray
WR (3): D. Hopkins, D. Adams, M. Evans, D.J. Moore, DJ Chark, B. Aiyuk, J. Smith-Schuster, R Bateman, E. Moore
TE (2): I. Smith Jr, H. Henry, Schultz, Tremble

K (1): M. Crosby

DB (1): J. Adams
LB (1): F. Warner
DL (1): D. Lawrence

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby Life of Pablo » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:30 am

I believe this is the most relevant thread about Darnold this year, so I'm here to briefly revive it...

I'm buying. For someone who's still only 22 years old, he shows a lot of poise and confidence in his throws. He led that offense to a big win against the Cowboys defense, which admittedly hasn't looked great this year, but I wouldn't say they're bad either. Seeing the Jets offense with Darnold in there vs Siemian/Falk is night and day. I also like how Darnold, Gase, and other Jets members are getting pretty excited about the offense moving forward. Darnold mentioned yesterday that he thinks the Jets can be "unstoppable as an offense" once Chris Herndon is back and healthy, which caught my attention since I haven't seen him make a bold confident statement like that before.

Monday night primetime against the Pats will be a big test (and likewise, this should be the biggest test for the Pats D so far, if you throw out that week 1 smackdown vs the Steelers). I'm not expecting Darnold to light the world on fire, but I think there's a good chance he does enough to get more people paying attention to him. I think he's flying a little under the radar right now given the potential I see in him and that offense.
10-team standard, 18-man rosters (plus K/D + 1 IR + 2 TAXI)
1QB | 2RB | 2WR | 1TE | 1FLEX
2021: 8-6, 5th (AP: 76-50 / 60.3%, 3rd) ||| Runner-up
2022: 5-1, 2nd (AP: 47-7 / 87.0%, 1st)

QB: Hurts, Russ, Carr
RB: Chubb, Pierce, Swift, JRob, D'Ernest, Ford
WR: Diggs, Evans, GDavis, Nuk, Keenan, Hollywood, Mooney, CSamuel, Doubs
TE: Kelce, Dulcich, Fant
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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby abloom » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:04 pm

I'll add my two cents. I hold Darnold as my qb3/4 in a 12 team SF (though arguably you could say he's close to my qb2 in Murray). I'm fine holding him now and having him gain value (especially over these next 6 weeks) but if someone wants to offer me a good price for him I'm happy to sell and cash out on some value now. I'm not a big fan of Gase, and I wonder if maybe the offensive talent isnt really there at the other skill positions, especially long term.

Basically I'm only selling to a bit of an overpay now.
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12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K

Q: Kyler, Fields, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens, wilson
T: Kelce, Goedert, Thomas, woods
D: cle, nyj
K: Sanders

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Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson, Browning, Rudolph, Zappe
R: Swift, Walker, Dobbins, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen, Nuk, Tre tucker, C Samuel,
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE

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14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F

Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby Dibbles » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:51 pm

Still very young, has flashed multiple times with limited downers thus far, poised, smart, improved weapons, impressive showing last week off scary “injury” (spleen risk), and has really impressed me over past 13 months, easy hold or buy for me given still relatively low price tag. He’s also currently my QB 3/4 in 12 team SF (similar to above poster),
behind Mahomes/Russ/Stafford - but I firmly believe he will ascend to my QB2 in 12-24 months.

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby cc texan » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:01 am

I cant say I expected more than a Dalton-like profile from him going into the draft, but I've bee really impressed so far.

To the point of the thread, I think I'm buying if I can get him at QB2 prices. Whats your buy-sell line in picks for 1 QB and SF?

1 QB: I'd put him around 2.01-2.03, and buy for a random 2nd, but for some reason I dont think I could sell for less than a late 1st. Am I crazy?
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QB: Newton, Rivers
RB: Hyde, Gordon, Martin, Dixon, Prosise, Williams (GB), Connor
WR: Beckham, Parker, White, Ty Williams, Doctson, Schuster-Smith, Boyd
TE: Thomas, Howard, Everett
DL: Cox, Fowler, Clark
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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby Cameron Giles » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:13 am

After Monday, the Jets have one of the easiest 7-game stretches in the league:

@Jaguars
@Dolphins
Giants
@Redskins
Raiders
@Bengals
Dolphins

If the Jets don't take advantage, then something is wrong.

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Re: Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold

Postby ArrylT » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:31 am

FantasyFreak wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:09 pm
mild wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:37 pm I hate that this is the Lamar Jackson thread, and the amount of negativity from posters for a player that is doing nothing but show out so far. I don't think anyone's opinion is going to be swayed on how long he can do this - but I'm just glad that freezing cold water has been dumped on everything else so far "he's an RB" "he should play WR" "he can't pass"... awful quiet out there from those corners now.

How about something fun and statistical related to the title to get us all in the mood for celebrating Lamar's skills and achievements.

"DeShaun Watson and Lamar Jackson have better QBR's when under pressure than Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield have when they are NOT under pressure" - PFF

What a guy.
Wow. I have to say, it's looking more and more like Baker and Darnold are not going to be good NFL QB's. It's at least trending that way. Obviously there is still time, but the state of their franchises, and their ineptitude, may ruin them.

I'd love to see a Houston/Ravens playoff game. That would be an entertaining game.
Just replying to this here because this is the closest we have to a Darnold thread. ;)

The good news is that QBs like Sam Darnold are still so young. I believe apart from Kyler Murray he is the youngest QB in the NFL at the moment.

The bad news is that Sam Darnold is so young.

It is good imo because he has so much time to develop. It is bad because obviously that young it can be easy to have the wrong mental makeup. So I concur with you that the state of their franchise could definitely hind Darnolds development in regards to his skill set & mentality.

In regards to this season I think that bout of mono really played havoc on the 2019 season. I know it sounds like such a non-concern in one aspect - but at the same time the fact that he had to take so much time off right at the beginning of the season is a killer. I also suspect he is not 100% fully recovered. I think he's obviously safe from having risks re: the spleen or liver - just that its a mental hurdle as well on top of having longer term issues with being tired.

Basically he came back too soon, spent a ton of effort in that great performance against the Cowboys in Week VI and now is feeling the after effects - on top of whats going on with the Jets.

Long term I remain hopeful he'll overcome this adversity & continue to develop, but in this organization it might be a case of 3 steps forward, 2 steps backward for the next few years. As I mentioned in another thread, the new NFL with its rookie contracts make it so many teams feel they need to maximize their savings benefits & get the most production out of their rookie QBs before they suddenly go from 7-8m a year to 20m+ a year.

So yeah - hopeful he will come out of it a better QB - but like you not going to bet on it and will not be surprised if a lot of these guys get tossed aside without having truly had a chance to properly develop into what they could have been.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..


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