Ja'Marr Chase Thread

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Bronco Billy
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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby Bronco Billy » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:38 am

BB’s common sense guide to rebuilding a franchise:

1) Take your franchise QB as soon as a future stud QB becomes available.
2) Protect your franchise stud QB.
3) Give your franchise stud QB weapons.

Your franchise stud QB can’t make many plays from his back. He can make even fewer from IR. We have seen numerous times where franchise stud QBs can make mediocre weapons into competent offensive players until they get that stud weapon on board.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:45 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:38 am BB’s common sense guide to rebuilding a franchise:

1) Take your franchise QB as soon as a future stud QB becomes available.
2) Protect your franchise stud QB.
3) Give your franchise stud QB weapons.

Your franchise stud QB can’t make many plays from his back. He can make even fewer from IR. We have seen numerous times where franchise stud QBs can make mediocre weapons into competent offensive players until they get that stud weapon on board.
And they can still address the OL the draft is more than 1 round and a lot of good OL still availabe. The combination of Chase and the OTs they can get R2 is better than the combination of Sewell and the WR they could have drafted here. By adding Chase they now have an elite position group locked down, and can focus on building the OL in the part of the draft where a lot of good O-lineman come out of.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby Bronco Billy » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:51 am

bjd5211 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:45 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:38 am BB’s common sense guide to rebuilding a franchise:

1) Take your franchise QB as soon as a future stud QB becomes available.
2) Protect your franchise stud QB.
3) Give your franchise stud QB weapons.

Your franchise stud QB can’t make many plays from his back. He can make even fewer from IR. We have seen numerous times where franchise stud QBs can make mediocre weapons into competent offensive players until they get that stud weapon on board.
The combination of Chase and the OTs they can get R2 is better than the combination of Sewell and the WR they could have drafted here.
You are not paying attention.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby Pac_Eddy » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:59 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:51 am
bjd5211 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:45 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:38 am BB’s common sense guide to rebuilding a franchise:

1) Take your franchise QB as soon as a future stud QB becomes available.
2) Protect your franchise stud QB.
3) Give your franchise stud QB weapons.

Your franchise stud QB can’t make many plays from his back. He can make even fewer from IR. We have seen numerous times where franchise stud QBs can make mediocre weapons into competent offensive players until they get that stud weapon on board.
The combination of Chase and the OTs they can get R2 is better than the combination of Sewell and the WR they could have drafted here.
You are not paying attention.
I think he is. He has a different opinion than you. Can you leave it at that?
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:14 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:51 am
You are not paying attention.
To you anymore.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby EveryDayI'mWaffling » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:21 am

dvpkwys wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:24 pm Started this thread weeks ago - happy as a Burrow owner, but have Higgins and Boyd! Not sure I like this...
That's the risk you take when stacking guys like that (unless you're talking about ownership across multiple leagues). Personally, I'm generally not a fan of stacking for exactly this reason.

Having said that, it can work out, especially in small stretches. In 2002, I had Gannon, Brown and Rice in a re-draft league and I won the league mostly on the strength of those 3. But I would be less thrilled to have so many together on the same team in a dynasty league.

But as mentioned already there's over 100 vacated targets from Green, and their defense still sucks. With pressing needs on the OLine I doubt they will be able to improve the defense much. There will be LOTS of passing this year. If you do have all those guys on one team, I'd probably look to try to move one of Higgins or Boyd though. Probably Boyd as his contract will be up sooner.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby dustyroads » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:24 am

People seem to forget or ignore that Bengal's have invested in offensive line the past two drafts pretty highly, but suffered injuries last year. Jonah Williams was the 11th overall pick in 2020 and missed the majority of last season. Trey Hopkins is a solid center who graded out high in his individual blocking, despite the line being so bad as a whole. And they added Riley Reiff, who's been quietly above average throughout his career and coming off one of his best seasons, allowing just one sack and committing just one penalty over the entire year for the Vikings. Bengals line is ALREADY improved over last year before even drafting anyone.

Granted they didn't have many places to go but up; but acting line taking BPA in Chase over an o-lineman in the first is some death sentence for Burrow is a little over the top to me. Jenkins, Cosmi, Little.... there are still plenty of players left who will be available for them that will improve the line even more. I'm obviously no expert, but the difference between Chase and Rondale Moore/Tutu Atwell/Dwayne Eskridge is much greater IMO then Sewell and the guys I just named still left for them on the oline. I don't just think it was an ok pick, I think it was a great one and by the end of the draft (and the season) I think this will be clear. Sewell wasn't even consensus best tackle in the draft (Slater named by some), meanwhile Chase was the first unanimous pre-draft WR1 since Calvin Johnson. Extreme scenarios aside, one way I think the NFL draft aligns with dynasty, you typically can't go wrong taking the BPA over need; especially in the first round when values are at their highest.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby Dynos » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:27 am

they will probably go teven jenkins with their next pick. I wouldn't be surprise they trade up for him or is there another LT better then him?
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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:33 am

I like Cosmi and Walker Little the most as LT prospects and pass protectors, but Jenkins/Radunz both very good targets too. Little might fall a bit because he hasn't really played much in 2 years, but he could be a big steal for a team. They could also be in play for Dickerson or Meinerz and address the interior which is where their glaring issues are since they have two competent OTs in Jonah and Reiff. I will be pretty disappointed if their 2nd round pick isn't an OL, because it does fit both need and value on the board.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:35 am

bjd5211 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:45 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:38 am BB’s common sense guide to rebuilding a franchise:

1) Take your franchise QB as soon as a future stud QB becomes available.
2) Protect your franchise stud QB.
3) Give your franchise stud QB weapons.

Your franchise stud QB can’t make many plays from his back. He can make even fewer from IR. We have seen numerous times where franchise stud QBs can make mediocre weapons into competent offensive players until they get that stud weapon on board.
And they can still address the OL the draft is more than 1 round and a lot of good OL still availabe. The combination of Chase and the OTs they can get R2 is better than the combination of Sewell and the WR they could have drafted here. By adding Chase they now have an elite position group locked down, and can focus on building the OL in the part of the draft where a lot of good O-lineman come out of.
I'm not so sure this is the case.

Granted, Chase is going to be really good. He feels like a near-guarantee to be a stud, but would they really be worse off with Sewell + Marshall in the 2nd?

I'd rather have a potentially elite OT than a potentially elite WR.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby dustyroads » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:37 am

Dynos wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:27 am they will probably go teven jenkins with their next pick. I wouldn't be surprise they trade up for him or is there another LT better then him?
He's likely the highest graded left on the board, but they could really go with any interior lineman. Cosmi should be up there, Little, Dickerson, Mayfield, Eichenberg, etc. There's a solid bunch that are more or less grouped together rankings wise that will get picked away at over the first half of the second round. And nearly all of those guys are graded higher then the WRs left (outside E. Moore)

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby dustyroads » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:39 am

bjd5211 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:33 am I like Cosmi and Walker Little the most as LT prospects and pass protectors, but Jenkins/Radunz both very good targets too. Little might fall a bit because he hasn't really played much in 2 years, but he could be a big steal for a team. They could also be in play for Dickerson or Meinerz and address the interior which is where their glaring issues are since they have two competent OTs in Jonah and Reiff. I will be pretty disappointed if their 2nd round pick isn't an OL, because it does fit both need and value on the board.
As a Mixon owner and truther, I couldn't agree more lol.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:46 am

Cameron Giles wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:35 am
I'd rather have a potentially elite OT than a potentially elite WR.
I'm the opposite, and based on pay of the top 10 WRs vs top 10 LTs the NFL says the same. As a position group yes Offensive Line is more important than WR, but as individuals an elite WR can have a bigger impact than an elite OT.

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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby nathanq42 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:16 pm

bjd5211 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:46 am
Cameron Giles wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:35 am
I'd rather have a potentially elite OT than a potentially elite WR.
I'm the opposite, and based on pay of the top 10 WRs vs top 10 LTs the NFL says the same. As a position group yes Offensive Line is more important than WR, but as individuals an elite WR can have a bigger impact than an elite OT.
I think it depends. Julio Jones has made a bigger impact on the Falcons than Joe Thomas did as a Brown, but Ryan Whitworth moving to the Rams seemed to really coincide with their massive offensive uptick, while OBJ/Arob for all their talent havent moved the needle with their respective organizations either.

I think a big factor is the team around you obviously. Its a 53 man roster, no one player is the key like in basketball. I personally think the game is won and lost at the LOS, so I would go OT over WR any day of the week considering there are a whole host of 1000 yard receivers now a days with more and more advantages afforded them. The most important position is QB, why limit his time during a play and risk injury with a garbage Oline?
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Re: Bengals + Chase?

Postby dustyroads » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:39 pm

nathanq42 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:16 pm
bjd5211 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:46 am
Cameron Giles wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:35 am
I'd rather have a potentially elite OT than a potentially elite WR.
I'm the opposite, and based on pay of the top 10 WRs vs top 10 LTs the NFL says the same. As a position group yes Offensive Line is more important than WR, but as individuals an elite WR can have a bigger impact than an elite OT.
I think it depends. Julio Jones has made a bigger impact on the Falcons than Joe Thomas did as a Brown, but Ryan Whitworth moving to the Rams seemed to really coincide with their massive offensive uptick, while OBJ/Arob for all their talent havent moved the needle with their respective organizations either.

I think a big factor is the team around you obviously. Its a 53 man roster, no one player is the key like in basketball. I personally think the game is won and lost at the LOS, so I would go OT over WR any day of the week considering there are a whole host of 1000 yard receivers now a days with more and more advantages afforded them. The most important position is QB, why limit his time during a play and risk injury with a garbage Oline?
Playing devil's advocate here: I get this to an extent, but going to sound cliché for a second here, your line is only as strong as the weakest player on it. One amazing o-lineman won't do much to change an otherwise poor line. One WR can make a difference though.

Also comparing Chase to the bulk of good-not-great 1k yard receivers I think is grossly undervaluing his talent, but maybe I'm just much higher on him. I think he's my favorite WR prospect since AJ Green/Julio Jones (I wasn't on the Amari Cooper train).


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