The Deshaun Watson Discussion Thread

[mild]

I think this is an interesting time for this to be coming out about Watson. Right in the middle of a standoff between him and the Texans front office. Something here isn’t sitting right with me....

Yeah, I mean, it's really important to remember that he's innocent until proven guilty, and that this is really more of a He said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said, She said sort of a situation.

Come on guys. With this much smoke, it's pretty obvious there's fire. Let's be honest about what this is, and what it means in the year 2021.

So which is it? Innocent until proven guilty, or it's "obvious" what has happened before anything has been proven?

He's innocent until proven guilty as far as the justice system is concerned. Obviously I was setting up the hammer of the joke, though... you can consider me much more in the latter camp of my post.

When 21 seperate women all say the same thing about the same guy in the year 2021, then "innocent until proven guilty" isn't really the object in play. It's public perception, and with a younger generation coming through that outright doesn't stand for this stuff anymore - you can bet that any team that wants to make Watson the face of their franchise in the future... will be going through a very lengthy "image rehabilitation" process to make him an acceptable sell to the fanbase going forward. This will happen regardless of the outcomes of these lawsuits, because the damage to his rep has already been done.

This definitely does not preclude him from continuing to have a career - I'd call it almost a foregone conclusion that he will play games again one day. But the bloom is most definitely off the rose, and he plays the most visible (and therefore "marketable"... or perhaps "anti-marketable" now) position in the sport. Ask any Pittsburgh fan - they've all had to eat over a decade of "Ben Rapelisburger" jokes now, I'm sure they'll tell you how fun it's been to cheer for that guy going forward... and that was just one reasonably credible accusation, in 2009. This is 21 (so far) in the #MeToo era. It hits different.

Like it or not, Watson's career will not be the same now, going forward - and he very clearly has displayed a pattern of behaviour that indicates he's not quite right in the head. To me, that's the biggest question going forward - lesser men have been functionally destroyed by public character assassinations... and this is one of the most public ones I've ever seen, it will definitely f--- with Watson's head (how could it not). The reality is - he might never be the same after this (I know I wouldn't be). Whatever the case... I hope he gets the help he needs.

[remedy29]

That's exactly the narrative he wants out there...

These are civil lawsuits where the only suffering by the accused is to pay the victim money. No more, no less.
For a public person like Watson, that may have other ramifications, but for the general public, civil lawsuits are about the money.
Saying otherwise is just pandering.

I was talking about his "How can we have empathy for a person like that?" comment, I'm aware of how civil suits work.

Assuming these claims are true, this woman was assaulted while she was performing her trained profession that she does for a living, and now is so traumatized from the event that she is unable to continue this profession at this time which means she has essentially lost her income due to Watson's (alleged) actions. On top of that, him being a highly public figure means that if this came out publicly and she attached her name to it she would inevitably be getting slut-shamed and victim-blamed publicly (which is exactly what is happening) and basically have to go throughthe whole ordeal again, which is a very legitimate and understandable reason for not wanting this to be public initially. By getting a private settlement she could have had her earnings lost to the events recouped, and be able to get counseling to help her get through the psychological damage done to her and hopefully be able to continue the career she had been building for herself.

I had my doubts about this story initially mostly due to the lawyer who first brought it up, his presentation of it and his reputation as an apparent attention seeker. As more and more comes out though it is getting harder and harder to just write off as a money or attention grab. I'm not really sure what to think anymore, because it's pretty hard to support either side without condemning the other as either a liar or a sexual predator, and I am not going to pretend I know what actually happened in these cases. I can however look at both sides and understand and EMPATHIZE with them from their point of views. I understand Watson's desire to fight to clear his name and reputation if these allegations are not true, and I can do the same from the other side and understand why they wanted private monetary reparations over public legal consequences if they are true.

Either way it's a sad story, but I'm no longer going to pass judgement on either side while this is still ongoing because I know nothing about what really happened and neither does the media other than what each side wants them to know. So I'm just going to let the legal system play out and hopefully come to the correct outcome, and then go from there.

Alright, I get it, but your comment. "How can we have empathy for a person like that?" Like what?
Her bringing a civil lawsuit against Watson is her only recourse. I'm assuming she doesn't have sufficient info to support a criminal case against him. So, the fact she was asking for money, is completely standard in the civil lawsuit. PFT has a good story on this.

In my mind, everything else you wrote just increases the amount of damages she will ultimately be seeking.

[bjd5211]

Alright, I get it, but your comment. "How can we have empathy for a person like that?" Like what?
Her bringing a civil lawsuit against Watson is her only recourse. I'm assuming she doesn't have sufficient info to support a criminal case against him. So, the fact she was asking for money, is completely standard in the civil lawsuit. PFT has a good story on this.

In my mind, everything else you wrote just increases the amount of damages she will ultimately be seeking.

That wasn't MY comment...

[Krypto_King]

have any of the accusers been from pre-2020 yet? I saw all the quotes of MT's defending him, it does seem like a lot of these are in areas outside Houston so that might explain *some* of the volume question. What is the threshold for the police to open their criminal investigation? I would think that eliminates the Jane Doe conspiracy theory that they are all made up in Buzbee's imagination. This is such an odd story all around.

I think there has been at least 1 criminal complaint filed and it sounds like more to follow.

That by itself means nothing other than a police investigation will follow because they have to as a matter of law. If the police do not follow up then they could be held liable.

I get many want to question Buzzbee but he is an extremely successful lawyer so Watson and his team will not take him lightly. Of course, he is a lawyer so there is that.

yes, my mistake, I read later it was an accuser filing a criminal complaint and not the police starting it on their own.

[Draftnik]

Nike just suspended their endorsement deal with Watson.

Watson is likely going to regret not settling over what quite frankly would have been a small amount of money for him.

This is just getting started.

[Cameron Giles]

For those that keep insisting the Texans have orchestrated this, Buzzbee just threw some accountability for Watson at them, and implied they have a role in Watson's behaviour. Said it in a very careful roundabout way as he's a lawyer obviously.

They absolutely knew about the incidents and likely played a role in keeping them quiet during the season, and yet they won't be reprimanded for that.

Just remember that if Watson had settled with the attorney's demands, none of this would've got out until after Watson left Houston, or later in his career.

Pandora's box of unreported NFL incidents is probably loaded.

[OhCruelestRanter]

For those that keep insisting the Texans have orchestrated this, Buzzbee just threw some accountability for Watson at them, and implied they have a role in Watson's behaviour. Said it in a very careful roundabout way as he's a lawyer obviously.

They absolutely knew about the incidents and likely played a role in keeping them quiet during the season, and yet they won't be reprimanded for that.

Just remember that if Watson had settled with the attorney's demands, none of this would've got out until after Watson left Houston, or later in his career.

Pandora's box of unreported NFL incidents is probably loaded.

Yeah, it was absolutely nuts for Watson to reject settling this quietly.

Makes me wonder how many people have settled things like this that we never got to hear about.

[Cameron Giles]

For those that keep insisting the Texans have orchestrated this, Buzzbee just threw some accountability for Watson at them, and implied they have a role in Watson's behaviour. Said it in a very careful roundabout way as he's a lawyer obviously.

They absolutely knew about the incidents and likely played a role in keeping them quiet during the season, and yet they won't be reprimanded for that.

Just remember that if Watson had settled with the attorney's demands, none of this would've got out until after Watson left Houston, or later in his career.

Pandora's box of unreported NFL incidents is probably loaded.

Yeah, it was absolutely nuts for Watson to reject settling this quietly.

Makes me wonder how many people have settled things like this that we never got to hear about.

Even when you think back to Kareem Hunt.

His incident of him kicking that woman happened in February. It wasn't released until November.

So much probably happened behind the scenes during those nine months involving bidding for that tape or trying to settle, but ultimately TMZ got it and released it.

Sports is a dirty business.

[murphysxm]

Yeah, it was absolutely nuts for Watson to reject settling this quietly.

Unless he truly is innocent or atleast in his head doesn't think he did anything wrong. I wonder how many times money grabs happen (not saying this is) with athletes or people with money in general

[Cameron Giles]

He just lost his Beats sponsorship and Nike suspended their sponsorship. So, he's paying in a lot more ways than a settlement now.

[Bronco Billy]

Yeah, it was absolutely nuts for Watson to reject settling this quietly.

Unless he truly is innocent or atleast in his head doesn't think he did anything wrong. I wonder how many times money grabs happen (not saying this is) with athletes or people with money in general

Even if he is completely innocent it was a bad business decision allowing this to snowball. His brand is likely permanently tarnished in even the best scenario for him, and that’s going to cost him a whole lot more than preventing this from hitting the eyes of the public. If he is totally beyond reproach in this mess, he and his attorney needed to strike with a massive legal WMD early on. Now this has got legs well beyond salvaging without his being stuck with a badly negative image.

[murphysxm]

Yeah, it was absolutely nuts for Watson to reject settling this quietly.

Unless he truly is innocent or atleast in his head doesn't think he did anything wrong. I wonder how many times money grabs happen (not saying this is) with athletes or people with money in general

Even if he is completely innocent it was a bad business decision allowing this to snowball. His brand is likely permanently tarnished in even the best scenario for him, and that’s going to cost him a whole lot more than preventing this from hitting the eyes of the public. If he is totally beyond reproach in this mess, he and his attorney needed to strike with a massive legal WMD early on. Now this has got legs well beyond salvaging without his being stuck with a badly negative image.

Don't disagree, just trying to give a benefit of a doubt. If you truly are innocent of a claim, are you going to shell out money to make it go away? There is no video here, there is no recording, I am just waiting until I have more facts before I judge.

[Bronco Billy]

Unless he truly is innocent or atleast in his head doesn't think he did anything wrong. I wonder how many times money grabs happen (not saying this is) with athletes or people with money in general

Even if he is completely innocent it was a bad business decision allowing this to snowball. His brand is likely permanently tarnished in even the best scenario for him, and that’s going to cost him a whole lot more than preventing this from hitting the eyes of the public. If he is totally beyond reproach in this mess, he and his attorney needed to strike with a massive legal WMD early on. Now this has got legs well beyond salvaging without his being stuck with a badly negative image.

Don't disagree, just trying to give a benefit of a doubt. If you truly are innocent of a claim, are you going to shell out money to make it go away?

FWIW, I can speak with some experience to this - thankfully it is completely unrelated to the issue Watson has. It was related to construction and a significantly substandard performance by a subcontractor to whom we had no contractual relationship. To make a long story short, my company had incontrovertible proof of the substandard performance and ended up getting dragged into the lawsuit between the arguing parties. The mediator even agreed without caveat that was the case. However, we had the deepest pockets insurance-wise and ended up paying out the largest portion of the settlement because of that. I explained to our insurance company our position and that we were prepared to fight it out in court if necessary because we had no part in the accusations in the case and had such strong evidence of the wrong doing. The insurance company told us that even if we went to court and won with a finding of zero fault, the cost of our future insurance premiums would rise so much that it would likely be ten times or more what our end of the settlement would be.

Yeah, it really pissed me off then - it still does now just rehashing it 15 years later - that we were at no fault whatsoever, nor were we anything other than an also named third party in the suit, and yet we ended up paying more into it than all other parties - including the nonperforming sub. But it was a business decision we had to make to eat the cost because the alternative to pressing the matter in court would have cost us so much more and in our industry we had almost no alternatives to the insurance company we were dealing with.

Guilt or innocence can mean nothing in these things - it’s making the best business decision that often motivates the actions taken. And in this case, allowing it to get to the public and then attracting so many more claimants also in public looks like it was a horrendously poor decision.

[GridironGuerilla]

Is anyone buying in SF/2QB at a high risk discount?

[jenkins.math]

Is anyone buying in SF/2QB at a high risk discount?

Depends on the discount, but I am of the opinion that he won't play this year.

I think you can wait this out if you are trying to buy because I don't think his value has hit rock bottom yet.