Ice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:51 pm
dustyroads wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:16 am
Ice wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:57 am
So you're shocked a lawyer is smart enough to get the press to investigate. Assuming all these woman are stand up and deserve anonymity is a massive reach. While they might be the defense can't assume that at all. The fact is the court requires them to be public. Now the legal team, private investigators, and yes the press can look into their lives just like everyone is looking into Watson's.
Bottom line is this case is all about money. The playing field levels now that we all know who is who in the battle for public opinion. The lawyer is doing his job just like their lawyer was doing his by dragging Watson through the mud using the same press you might think shouldn't know.
Hard to follow your logic; Watson has also been targeted and in the court of public opinion where this is being fought.
Lawyers on both sides are doing exactly what is expected regardless if you might only think one side should make this public or not.
You make some good points here for sure. One thing that remains a disconnect for me is Watson chose to make himself a public figure and put himself under intense scrutiny by becoming a professional football player. Considering the amount of money he was making, it was probably an easy choice; one laden in upside. If he chose not to be public figure, he'd negate a positive; he'd miss out on the money, but not really suffer any negative consequences. These women didn't choose to make themselves public figures. They were supposedly sexually harassed/assaulted. So they definitely could have chosen to not press charges, and stay out of the public eye; but if what they allege is true; they ARE suffering as unnamed victims for the rest of their lives, and watching their assailant continue on with the choir boy image raking in millions and all the negative mental health issues resulting from such. By choosing to make themselves public figures in coming forward, I'd say their upside is still pretty limited. It can really come down to world view and your own personal philosophies here; but objectively they had much less to gain and much more to lose by how we unfortunately treat (supposed) victims of sexual assault in the world today (whether courts find in their favor or not). It's not really apples to apple on this one to me. I get it can seem logically consistent, and for your ordinary individuals in a case like this I would understand your point more. But Watson coming from a place of wealth, fame, and power tilts the scales IMO. He has the resources and means to mitigate a lot of the negative focus, protect himself and his family from the out lash. The women don't.
When you say these women didn't choose to become public figures that is where I completely disagree. That is exactly what they did except for the one that didn't refile the civil lawsuit with their legal name as part of PUBLIC RECORD were required by law.
We cannot conflate Criminal from Civil action here. (There is no protect a rape victim here.)
1) These woman were using public Instagram to solicit services.
2) These woman were the ones to have filed lawsuits where they are required by law to be made public.
3) The women are all adults seeking restitution which is why they filed a lawsuit
4) If this was in fact criminal behavior the question becomes how many actually went to the police and filed charges? The answer is ZERO.
BTW; At anytime you can find out almost anything about anyone you chose for under $50.00. That is a big business.
People bringing up if it were your daughter isn't even relevant. The system of justice in this country as it relates to civil actions is actually clear. Obviously, if the woman were minors this all would have been criminal.
Personally, I think Watson is a dirt bag with a sex addiction issue but at the end of the day every single woman who re-filed knows exactly what they are they getting into as this is a national story and some may become famous as a result.
The Lawyer for the women will only take a cut of the settlement so resources are not even a question. Lets say Watson settles for 130K per person. The Lawyer will take his 30K times 22.
The lawyers on both sides have more money than Watson most likely.
I understand what you're saying, and just to clarify I don't think you're "wrong", let alone trying to guilt/shame you about thinking like this. It makes complete logical sense. The issue is the psychology behind sexual abuse and assault and the lack of knowledge people have about it. Which is really where we are diverging in the discussion. It's the same way millions of people (not implying you) still look at drug/alcohol addiction, especially if they've never been touched by it. "I have 0 sympathy. They made that choice to pick up the needle. They stole from their friends. They broke the law." All valid points, but shows no consideration for the psychology, mental and chemical, which is associated with it. And that understanding can lead to just having a different perspective, focusing not so much on the act of using drugs (and all the other negative acts/behaviors that tend to come with it), but rather acknowledging most serious drug users don't even get "high" anymore, they do it to maintain a level of not feeling like sh**; how miserable and sad they must be to use in the first place; them chemical pathways changing in their brain making them physically suffer when not using, etc etc.
This thinking on addiction has thankfully has grown a bit in the past 20 years or so. Unfortunately, we haven't come nearly as far on sexual assault/harassment/abuse. While it can be frustrating and make people question why an overwhelming amount of women don't report, not only to police, but even friends/family; the information is out there detailing exactly why this is. I get people don't understand, and I get they might not agree; but it doesn't make the statistics and studies wrong. So to try and build an argument against them using not reporting as part of the foundation is a fallacy, and a lack of knowledge really. It really is the first rung of a ladder that leads to the entire broken way too many people react and respond to things like this "Well what was she thinking flying there? What was she wearing? Why didn't she just leave? She gives massages for a living, that comes with the territory. Has she hooked up with other clients?" Those questions are akin to telling people "well if you don't run from the cops you won't get shot". As true as it is, the ends still don't justify the means. Dressing a certain way, previous sexual encounters, getting clients from social media, traveling to provide your services; none of these things are justification for getting sexually assaulted. And while I realize you didn't say any of this; making comments about them not reporting, or suggesting that them reporting it means they are somehow complicit in allowing themselves to be harassed and having their lives picked apart by a bunch of middle aged dudes on a message board, is where that tends to lead. This is without even getting into the lack of knowledge most of us have about how criminal justice system as it pertains to sexual assault/abuse/harassment. Some light reading will make it incredibly obvious WHY these charges are civil and not criminal; and it has nothing to do with the validity of the allegations. It has to do with the track record of these cases, the costs vs benefits of going into a criminal case you know you won't win because the burden of proof is nearly impossible to reach; especially when reporting is delayed. So, then, the option left is civil, where in order to file you are naturally going to be seeking for "damages". Same intricacies with why people settle. It sure can seem like they are just in it for the money. But from working with teen victims of sexual abuse for a decade, I can tell you there is serious risk to long term mental and physical issues from subjecting already fragile people to months if not years of being poked, prodded, interrogated, having your every decision over the course of your entire life dredged up and used against you. There's a reason there is a high correlation there with lifelong celibacy, self harm, alcohol and drug addiction, depression, suicide... I don't think any would say it was worth $50k, or really any amount of money.
I don't agree with coming at you with the "imagine it was your daughter" arguments. Again, I understand the point, but it's a poor arguments; as much as it's likely coming from a good place that's just impassioned about the topic. But every time someone uses an argument like the ones I laid out above, it makes me feel the same way. I wish people would rather ask themselves "why?" and then try to actually find out the information to answer rather then just assume they know. I don't have all the answers, I don't think your a bad person, I don't even think the things you are saying are necessarily wrong. To me, they just sound uninformed. And I don't mean that as an insult or to insinuate I know everything about all this or have any magic answer. The whole situation sucks tbh. I just hope we all maybe try to learn a little bit from it. And maybe have a little more compassion, for both the women and Watson; and reserve our judgements till after. There's a high likelihood we never really have all the details enough to say what happened really. But I'm very willing to bet NOONE walks away from this happy or satisfied, regardless of the outcome.
