The Deshaun Watson Discussion Thread

[MFundercover]

I don't know what happened to the world that we're okay with destroying a man's life over accusations alone. I need proof. Forensic evidence, witnesses, text messages, admissions of guilt, prior convictions, anything. Sorry but words alone aren't enough for me.

I'm not saying I'm convinced the women are lying, but the whole thing is still very much in question. I think its possible that Watson was so high on his own power and influence that he thought he was entitled to sex. I also think it's possible that 20 IG models would lie for money. I know I'm not supposed to have that opinion, sorry.

[kadun2]

I think it’s safe to say spite can lead to poor decisions.
Spite and wealth could be a very bad combination in this situation.
Good business practices may not be the top consideration.

[killer_of_giants]

i don't think that's the case, but it wouldn't really surprise me if the texans of all franchises were the ones cutting off their nose to spite their face. i'd put money on gase being hired by them in the not too distant future, they're that bad.

[SteelLake]

I’m going to get on soap box a little here, so I apologize in advance, but I think discussion here is going a predictable, but imo somewhat troublesome direction

Innocent until proven guilty
This is a criminal standard. I haven’t seen one person here (or anywhere), advocating that Watson should be thrown in prison right now. Until then, the “innocent until proven guilty” stuff really means nothing. Criminal conviction of Watson requires stating he is guilty “beyond a reasonable doubt”. This is a very high bar to clear. In cases like this, barring some unlikely smoking gun evidence, its hard to meet it.

Public opinion
You can state what you believe. There’s no standard, you aren’t convicting someone without proof. Weigh the fact there’s 22 accusations versus some negative aspects of the accusations however you like

Preponderance of the evidence
The civil standard is preponderance of the evidence. Basically, if there is a 50.00000001% chance Watson is guilty, he is civilly liable. In these circumstances, most individuals don’t like going into a winner take all scenario. Neither side usually ends up motivated for a messy, lengthy, battle, that’ll likely end up in serious hardships to both sides.

NFL personal conduct policy
NFL can suspend with the standard of ““conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the NFL”. It doesn’t have to be criminal in nature. There’s reported evidence already of Watson apologizing if made someone uncomfortable. That alone could be enough.

“BELIEVE ALL WOMEN / ME TOO, etc.”
Everyone can interpret this how they like. I view it as the following (and this is mostly for public opinion / how employers should react, not the criminal standard).

Someone states: “I saw an alien in my back yard yesterday”.
- They need to provide a WHOLEEE lot of evidence for me to believe them

Someone states “I saw my red car in my driveway yesterday”.
- I believe them, that makes sense.. Then, a third party states “No, you were in India yesterday. Here’s pictures of you in India. And secondly, you don’t even have a red car. Here’s a post you made next to your blue car last week “finally got my first car!”. Now, I don’t believe them.

I think, a lot of advocates, are stating, we should view accusations of sexual assault more along the lines of overhearing someone stating they saw their red car versus someone stating there’s an alien in their yard. How believable this initial claim is to you, influences what evidence you require to think its true.

Maybe the standard should be somewhere in the middle, but, pushing for some standard (for employers) to require less than the smoking gun evidence of criminal prosecution, makes sense to me.

Most possible result
I’m speaking out of my bleep here, but yea… I think, at this stage, most possible result. No conviction (really hard to meet that standard). Settlements (both sides don’t want to enter high stakes). Goodell suspends ~8 games for conduct detrimental. Watson issues some apology that doesn’t admit criminal guilt. Public varies greatly on how we should view him moving forward. No one ever really knows.

[killer_of_giants]

Someone states “I saw my red car in my driveway yesterday”.
- I believe them, that makes sense.. Then, a third party states “No, you were in India yesterday. Here’s pictures of you in India. And secondly, you don’t even have a red car. Here’s a post you made next to your blue car last week “finally got my first car!”. Now, I don’t believe them.

this had me giggling.

[OhCruelestRanter]

I’m going to get on soap box a little here, so I apologize in advance, but I think discussion here is going a predictable, but imo somewhat troublesome direction

Innocent until proven guilty
This is a criminal standard. I haven’t seen one person here (or anywhere), advocating that Watson should be thrown in prison right now. Until then, the “innocent until proven guilty” stuff really means nothing. Criminal conviction of Watson requires stating he is guilty “beyond a reasonable doubt”. This is a very high bar to clear. In cases like this, barring some unlikely smoking gun evidence, its hard to meet it.

Public opinion
You can state what you believe. There’s no standard, you aren’t convicting someone without proof. Weigh the fact there’s 22 accusations versus some negative aspects of the accusations however you like

Preponderance of the evidence
The civil standard is preponderance of the evidence. Basically, if there is a 50.00000001% chance Watson is guilty, he is civilly liable. In these circumstances, most individuals don’t like going into a winner take all scenario. Neither side usually ends up motivated for a messy, lengthy, battle, that’ll likely end up in serious hardships to both sides.

NFL personal conduct policy
NFL can suspend with the standard of ““conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the NFL”. It doesn’t have to be criminal in nature. There’s reported evidence already of Watson apologizing if made someone uncomfortable. That alone could be enough.

“BELIEVE ALL WOMEN / ME TOO, etc.”
Everyone can interpret this how they like. I view it as the following (and this is mostly for public opinion / how employers should react, not the criminal standard).

Someone states: “I saw an alien in my back yard yesterday”.
- They need to provide a WHOLEEE lot of evidence for me to believe them

Someone states “I saw my red car in my driveway yesterday”.
- I believe them, that makes sense.. Then, a third party states “No, you were in India yesterday. Here’s pictures of you in India. And secondly, you don’t even have a red car. Here’s a post you made next to your blue car last week “finally got my first car!”. Now, I don’t believe them.

I think, a lot of advocates, are stating, we should view accusations of sexual assault more along the lines of overhearing someone stating they saw their red car versus someone stating there’s an alien in their yard. How believable this initial claim is to you, influences what evidence you require to think its true.

Maybe the standard should be somewhere in the middle, but, pushing for some standard (for employers) to require less than the smoking gun evidence of criminal prosecution, makes sense to me.

Most possible result
I’m speaking out of my bleep here, but yea… I think, at this stage, most possible result. No conviction (really hard to meet that standard). Settlements (both sides don’t want to enter high stakes). Goodell suspends ~8 games for conduct detrimental. Watson issues some apology that doesn’t admit criminal guilt. Public varies greatly on how we should view him moving forward. No one ever really knows.

Outstanding.

[Ice]

I don't know what happened to the world that we're okay with destroying a man's life over accusations alone. I need proof. Forensic evidence, witnesses, text messages, admissions of guilt, prior convictions, anything. Sorry but words alone aren't enough for me.

I'm not saying I'm convinced the women are lying, but the whole thing is still very much in question. I think its possible that Watson was so high on his own power and influence that he thought he was entitled to sex. I also think it's possible that 20 IG models would lie for money. I know I'm not supposed to have that opinion, sorry.

The reality is Cancel Culture is real in society today. We saw it on full display with politicians claiming all women should be believed with the Kavanaugh political lynching. We see it with the Governor of NY and yes even with football players. When politicians don't stand up for the law and innocence until proven guilty expecting all to want fairness in today's society on the front side may be a bridge too far.

This case is different in that 21 separate women have come forward in civil actions at this point.

Is Watson Being destroyed? While it looks like it all parties are following legal avenues, it is possible all of them are lying but there is a penalty of perjury component which is 5 years and they all are open to counter suits.

No question Watson is losing in the court of public opinion at this point and money no doubt plays a role. Watson's problem right now today is poor judgement as a best case scenario.

All the evidence you seek will come out in the actual trials if they ever happen.

[Ice]

Someone states “I saw my red car in my driveway yesterday”.
- I believe them, that makes sense.. Then, a third party states “No, you were in India yesterday. Here’s pictures of you in India. And secondly, you don’t even have a red car. Here’s a post you made next to your blue car last week “finally got my first car!”. Now, I don’t believe them.

this had me giggling.

[OhCruelestRanter]

Ah yes, Brett Kavanaugh who was credibly accused of sexual assault and was subsequently cancelled by *checks notes* being... appointed to the Supreme Court for the rest of his life? That can’t be right.

Meanwhile Kaepernick couldn’t get an NFL contract after kneeling and wearing pig socks. Was that cancel culture or no?

[Ice]

Ah yes, Brett Kavanaugh who was credibly accused of sexual assault and was subsequently cancelled by *checks notes* being... appointed to the Supreme Court for the rest of his life? That can’t be right.

Meanwhile Kaepernick couldn’t get an NFL contract after kneeling and wearing pig socks. Was that cancel culture or no?

Always figured you for the guilty until proven innocent type. I mentioned two people in politics from the opposite sides of the isle.

Kaepernick's skills were diminished and football wasn't job 1. Not a chance in hell any owner would or should put their billion dollar franchise in the hands of someone that wasn't very good and had other more pressing agendas sure to upset 1/2 their paying fan base.

Just because so many want an outcome doesn't mean that outcome will happen. Watson will most likely play again even though many hope he doesn't is the real point.
Carry on.

[MFundercover]

Ah yes, Brett Kavanaugh who was credibly accused of sexual assault and was subsequently cancelled by *checks notes* being... appointed to the Supreme Court for the rest of his life? That can’t be right.

Meanwhile Kaepernick couldn’t get an NFL contract after kneeling and wearing pig socks. Was that cancel culture or no?

Credibly accused? Are you kidding me? Christine Ford could barely remember the details of what happened 30 years ago and that's comparable to a quarterback that couldn't beat out Blaine Gabbert? Come on.

Cancel culture has power because enough people don't challenge it.

[MFundercover]

Ah yes, Brett Kavanaugh who was credibly accused of sexual assault and was subsequently cancelled by *checks notes* being... appointed to the Supreme Court for the rest of his life? That can’t be right.

Meanwhile Kaepernick couldn’t get an NFL contract after kneeling and wearing pig socks. Was that cancel culture or no?

Always figured you for the guilty until proven innocent type. I mentioned two people on politics from the opposite sides of the isle.

Kaepernick's skills were diminished and football wasn't job 1. Not a chance in hell any owner would or should put their billion dollar franchise in the hands of someone that wasn't very good and had other more pressing agendas sure to upset 1/2 their paying fan base.

Carry on.

He couldn't beat out Blaine bleep Gabbert prior to any "controversy" and I'm supposed to believe racism and social injustice has anything to do with it. Give me a break.

[Bronco Billy]

Ah yes, Brett Kavanaugh who was credibly accused of sexual assault and was subsequently cancelled by *checks notes* being... appointed to the Supreme Court for the rest of his life? That can’t be right.

Now that made me laugh.

[OhCruelestRanter]

Ah yes, Brett Kavanaugh who was credibly accused of sexual assault and was subsequently cancelled by *checks notes* being... appointed to the Supreme Court for the rest of his life? That can’t be right.

Meanwhile Kaepernick couldn’t get an NFL contract after kneeling and wearing pig socks. Was that cancel culture or no?

Always figured you for the guilty until proven innocent type. I mentioned two people on politics from the opposite sides of the isle.

Kaepernick's skills were diminished and football wasn't job 1. Not a chance in hell any owner would or should put their billion dollar franchise in the hands of someone that wasn't very good and had other more pressing agendas sure to upset 1/2 their paying fan base.

Carry on.

These are irredeemably dense ideas.

First- you’re incorrectly applying the whole concept of “innocent until proven guilty.” Normally this would be somewhat excusable but it is literally explained like 5 posts before this one. The concept of innocent until proven guilty does not exist or apply outside of criminal proceedings. That isn’t a particularly challenging concept to understand.

Second, you don’t address the point. How is Kavanaugh an example of “cancel culture” if he was cancelled into a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court?

Third, you acknowledge that Kaepernick would “upset 1/2 their paying fan base” as part of the reason he wasn’t signed. How is that not “cancel culture” but being appointed to the Supreme Court is?

In any case, literally none of this applies to Watson. If you want to talk about cancel culture, there are real examples of internet outrage calling for scalps before learning the facts or giving the person an opportunity to change- look at Chris Pratt or Kevin Hart (both of whom are still wildly successful, but I digress).

The point here is that using the term cancel culture to refer to allegations of sexual misconduct at best trivializes those allegations and at worst implies that they are false, and you should stop.

Also thank all of you for telling on yourselves regarding Christine Ford. Nice work.

[OhCruelestRanter]

You’re right the world would be better with Hilary Clinton and Blaine Gabbert.

What the hell did this even mean?