Top 12 Rookies, Pre-Draft. GO!

[cantguardjake]

I believe Etienne is going to be a very polarizing prospect.

I understand people that are hesitant about him; he doesn't have the wiggle a lot of people like out of their RBs and is going to suffer from a lot of the same knocks that Jonathan Taylor had coming out of Wisconsin: "doesn't dip his hips, great O-line so we can't trust his elite production, didn't run deep routes so we can't trust his reception totals".

I personally think people are overthinking things here. He has good to great contact balance, shows a ton of burst and I expect him to blaze in the 40 yard dash (4.4). That's a skillset that has shown to be productive in the NFL. He's shown the capacity to be a receiver in college, even if it's just a bunch of dump offs he uses to get out in space and generate YAC.

Time will tell if he's more Jamaal Charles, or CJ Spiller; but even CJ Spiller gave us one top 5 RB season, and a solid RB2 year so he wasn't a total bust.

If he comes in at 205, he's going to be right up there with Najee Harris for me.
Sub 200 and I'm probably moving him below Javonte.

In any case, projected draft capital alone should put him in your top 12.

I’m just concerned about his size-speed ratio. I have no idea if he’s going to run as fast as you’re suggesting. If he’s 4.4 at 205, I’m in.

There’s footage floating around of him racing a 40 against Simmons who ran a 4.39 and winning, so he should be around the mark.

I love Etienne but the only thing that concerns me having watched a lot of interviews is that he has made multiple comments about gaining weight / coming back to Clemson out of shape over the offseason. He seems like a great kid and it’s normally said in jest, but the NFL is a different beast and the players that succeed generally go above and beyond. Everything else about his profile is great.

[Sriracha]

I’m just concerned about his size-speed ratio. I have no idea if he’s going to run as fast as you’re suggesting. If he’s 4.4 at 205, I’m in.

There’s footage floating around of him racing a 40 against Simmons who ran a 4.39 and winning, so he should be around the mark.

I love Etienne but the only thing that concerns me having watched a lot of interviews is that he has made multiple comments about gaining weight / coming back to Clemson out of shape over the offseason. He seems like a great kid and it’s normally said in jest, but the NFL is a different beast and the players that succeed generally go above and beyond. Everything else about his profile is great.

I honestly didn't realize his speed was in question. Looks like an absolute blazer to me on film; and I just checked out the race he had with Simmons which just further validated that notion.

For me, my main concern is his weight. He's listed at 205, but college teams are often loose with height/weight measurements.

[Finfansteve]

1qb standard scoring:

Chase
Pitts
Harris
Williams
Smith
Etn
Waddle
Bateman
Lawrence
Moore
St. Brown
Lawrence

[honcho55]

I’m just concerned about his size-speed ratio. I have no idea if he’s going to run as fast as you’re suggesting. If he’s 4.4 at 205, I’m in.

There’s footage floating around of him racing a 40 against Simmons who ran a 4.39 and winning, so he should be around the mark.

I love Etienne but the only thing that concerns me having watched a lot of interviews is that he has made multiple comments about gaining weight / coming back to Clemson out of shape over the offseason. He seems like a great kid and it’s normally said in jest, but the NFL is a different beast and the players that succeed generally go above and beyond. Everything else about his profile is great.

I honestly didn't realize his speed was in question. Looks like an absolute blazer to me on film; and I just checked out the race he had with Simmons which just further validated that notion.

For me, my main concern is his weight. He's listed at 205, but college teams are often loose with height/weight measurements.

Think I’ve voiced this earlier this off season: I dunno that he runs. A mid 4.4 hurts him if anything, and a 4.4 flat or even a high 4.3 feels expected, at best. Might even get looked at in a worse light than normal, sans the combines standardization.

[ThunderTung]

Or...I just don't believe Etienne is that good?

I mean that's fine, but putting Carter ahead of him just doesn't make sense. Even if you don't think he's gonna be good, his upside is more than worthy of being top 12. I'm not a Waddle believer but im also not gonna fade him out of the top 12

So his opinion that Entienne is not a top 12 talent in this year’s draft couldn’t possibly be correct? I don’t mind unconventional thinking - I value it a lot actually. I just hope guys that are willing to go against tge grain won’t mind sharing their thoughts about it. There’s much more value in a lot of cases than just going along with the groupthink crowd because it’s “required”.

in 3 years with hindsight it could, I just don't know what would justify it now. Feels like he just really doesn't like Etienne so he made his list like the guy doesn't exist. You don't have to like every touted prospect, but you also don't need to disrespect them.

If I made my top QB rankings for this draft and just left Tlaw out of it because I thought he was overrated, no one would take me seriously. Hot takes for hot takes don't make me think. Justify leaving him out of the top 12 behind Carter if you want me to take you seriously

[Bronco Billy]

I mean that's fine, but putting Carter ahead of him just doesn't make sense. Even if you don't think he's gonna be good, his upside is more than worthy of being top 12. I'm not a Waddle believer but im also not gonna fade him out of the top 12

So his opinion that Entienne is not a top 12 talent in this year’s draft couldn’t possibly be correct? I don’t mind unconventional thinking - I value it a lot actually. I just hope guys that are willing to go against tge grain won’t mind sharing their thoughts about it. There’s much more value in a lot of cases than just going along with the groupthink crowd because it’s “required”.

in 3 years with hindsight it could, I just don't know what would justify it now. Feels like he just really doesn't like Etienne so he made his list like the guy doesn't exist. You don't have to like every touted prospect, but you also don't need to disrespect them.

If I made my top QB rankings for this draft and just left Tlaw out of it because I thought he was overrated, no one would take me seriously. Hot takes for hot takes don't make me think. Justify leaving him out of the top 12 behind Carter if you want me to take you seriously

I’m guessing he’s not too concerned about you taking him seriously. Love the irony when you use leaving Lawrence out as being anywhere near comparable to leaving out Entienne. So you think Entienne is a generational talent?

[Farley]

So his opinion that Entienne is not a top 12 talent in this year’s draft couldn’t possibly be correct? I don’t mind unconventional thinking - I value it a lot actually. I just hope guys that are willing to go against tge grain won’t mind sharing their thoughts about it. There’s much more value in a lot of cases than just going along with the groupthink crowd because it’s “required”.

in 3 years with hindsight it could, I just don't know what would justify it now. Feels like he just really doesn't like Etienne so he made his list like the guy doesn't exist. You don't have to like every touted prospect, but you also don't need to disrespect them.

If I made my top QB rankings for this draft and just left Tlaw out of it because I thought he was overrated, no one would take me seriously. Hot takes for hot takes don't make me think. Justify leaving him out of the top 12 behind Carter if you want me to take you seriously

I’m guessing he’s not too concerned about you taking him seriously. Love the irony when you use leaving Lawrence out as being anywhere near comparable to leaving out Entienne. So you think Entienne is a generational talent?

He was exaggerating to make his point. And, he made it very well. I agree with everything Thunder said.

If someone is going to post a list like that without any reasoning, NOBODY should take it seriously. And, if that person doesn't care if ANYBODY takes what they post seriously, then there's no point posting it on an internet forum...unless they're just looking for a reaction. They should just save us the time and write their list on the back of a cocktail napkin if they're only interested in what they think.

But, if they are thinking so outside the box on a top prospect, they should share a little context. They're obviously seeing some glaring weakness(es) that the rest of us aren't. The value is in that explanation...not in the list.

[Bronco Billy]

in 3 years with hindsight it could, I just don't know what would justify it now. Feels like he just really doesn't like Etienne so he made his list like the guy doesn't exist. You don't have to like every touted prospect, but you also don't need to disrespect them.

If I made my top QB rankings for this draft and just left Tlaw out of it because I thought he was overrated, no one would take me seriously. Hot takes for hot takes don't make me think. Justify leaving him out of the top 12 behind Carter if you want me to take you seriously

I’m guessing he’s not too concerned about you taking him seriously. Love the irony when you use leaving Lawrence out as being anywhere near comparable to leaving out Entienne. So you think Entienne is a generational talent?

He was exaggerating to make his point. And, he made it very well. I agree with everything Thunder said.

If someone is going to post a list like that without any reasoning, NOBODY should take it seriously. And, if that person doesn't care if ANYBODY takes what they post seriously, then there's no point posting it on an internet forum...unless they're just looking for a reaction. They should just save us the time and write their list on the back of a cocktail napkin if they're only interested in what they think.

But, if they are thinking so outside the box on a top prospect, they should share a little context. They're obviously seeing some glaring weakness(es) that the rest of us aren't. The value is in that explanation...not in the list.

I’m skeptical about Entienne also and moved him down on my list accordingly. If the RBs in this draft had more depth he’d be off my list also. I’ve posted why elsewhere - he runs too upright for a guy his size, gets tackled too easily, doesn’t create much for himself, absolutely struggles in tight quarters, and his vision is questionable. His speed is eye popping and when he gets in the open field he destroys tackling angles, but he’s not going to be running in wide open spaces regularly in the NFL like he did with Clemson’s O line obliterating ACC defenses and he very well may not be running with an overly dominant QB that forces Ds to modify their schemes and depth and provide such ridiculous open running lanes like you see in his highlight films.

He could end up a limited rotational player and have a career like Henderson looks like he’ll have. He’ll never be a 3 down RB because he can’t operate functionally between the tackles given his limitations, and he’ll never be a goal line RB. IMO - of course - he’s very highly dependent on situation.

[Cameron Giles]

1qb standard scoring:

Chase
Pitts
Harris
Williams
Smith
Etn
Waddle
Bateman
Lawrence
Moore
St. Brown
Lawrence

Pitts over every RB in standard scoring? Curious why

[mgscott]

I’m guessing he’s not too concerned about you taking him seriously. Love the irony when you use leaving Lawrence out as being anywhere near comparable to leaving out Entienne. So you think Entienne is a generational talent?

He was exaggerating to make his point. And, he made it very well. I agree with everything Thunder said.

If someone is going to post a list like that without any reasoning, NOBODY should take it seriously. And, if that person doesn't care if ANYBODY takes what they post seriously, then there's no point posting it on an internet forum...unless they're just looking for a reaction. They should just save us the time and write their list on the back of a cocktail napkin if they're only interested in what they think.

But, if they are thinking so outside the box on a top prospect, they should share a little context. They're obviously seeing some glaring weakness(es) that the rest of us aren't. The value is in that explanation...not in the list.

I’m skeptical about Entienne also and moved him down on my list accordingly. If the RBs in this draft had more depth he’d be off my list also. I’ve posted why elsewhere - he runs too upright for a guy his size, gets tackled too easily, doesn’t create much for himself, absolutely struggles in tight quarters, and his vision is questionable. His speed is eye popping and when he gets in the open field he destroys tackling angles, but he’s not going to be running in wide open spaces regularly in the NFL like he did with Clemson’s O line obliterating ACC defenses and he very well may not be running with an overly dominant QB that forces Ds to modify their schemes and depth and provide such ridiculous open running lanes like you see in his highlight films.

He could end up a limited rotational player and have a career like Henderson looks like he’ll have. He’ll never be a 3 down RB because he can’t operate functionally between the tackles given his limitations, and he’ll never be a goal line RB. IMO - of course - he’s very highly dependent on situation.

This pretty much sums up why he isn't in my top 12 pre-draft. He struggled against the better competition and looks no better than the rest of the top 10 rbs in a very weak draft. I can easily see him falling in the NFL draft and not looking so rosy for everyone in fantasy. I definitely don't see a 3 down back and don't see as being special in order to still make him valuable as a less than 3 down back. I'd much rather take the WRs, TE and QBs ahead of him, especially pre-draft.

[Farley]

He was exaggerating to make his point. And, he made it very well. I agree with everything Thunder said.

If someone is going to post a list like that without any reasoning, NOBODY should take it seriously. And, if that person doesn't care if ANYBODY takes what they post seriously, then there's no point posting it on an internet forum...unless they're just looking for a reaction. They should just save us the time and write their list on the back of a cocktail napkin if they're only interested in what they think.

But, if they are thinking so outside the box on a top prospect, they should share a little context. They're obviously seeing some glaring weakness(es) that the rest of us aren't. The value is in that explanation...not in the list.

I’m skeptical about Entienne also and moved him down on my list accordingly. If the RBs in this draft had more depth he’d be off my list also. I’ve posted why elsewhere - he runs too upright for a guy his size, gets tackled too easily, doesn’t create much for himself, absolutely struggles in tight quarters, and his vision is questionable. His speed is eye popping and when he gets in the open field he destroys tackling angles, but he’s not going to be running in wide open spaces regularly in the NFL like he did with Clemson’s O line obliterating ACC defenses and he very well may not be running with an overly dominant QB that forces Ds to modify their schemes and depth and provide such ridiculous open running lanes like you see in his highlight films.

He could end up a limited rotational player and have a career like Henderson looks like he’ll have. He’ll never be a 3 down RB because he can’t operate functionally between the tackles given his limitations, and he’ll never be a goal line RB. IMO - of course - he’s very highly dependent on situation.

This pretty much sums up why he isn't in my top 12 pre-draft. He struggled against the better competition and looks no better than the rest of the top 10 rbs in a very weak draft. I can easily see him falling in the NFL draft and not looking so rosy for everyone in fantasy. I definitely don't see a 3 down back and don't see as being special in order to still make him valuable as a less than 3 down back. I'd much rather take the WRs, TE and QBs ahead of him, especially pre-draft.

See. This stuff is valuable. Thanks, guys.

I agree, and think it's true with most running backs coming out of college, that we'll know a lot more after the draft. If a team takes him in the backend of the first and there appears to be a scheme fit, he'll be a top 3 pick in rookie drafts. If he falls like a rock as you mention as a possibility, I can see him going outside of the top 12. It would be a Hakeem Butler fall from grace, though. But anything is possible. That's why I personally place so much weight on the NFL draft when determining value.

[Bronco Billy]

See. This stuff is valuable. Thanks, guys.

I just don’t like seeing opinions dismissed because they are contrary to conventional thinking. I may strongly disagree with an opinion to the point where I’m sure it’s wrong and I’ll try to engage in a conversation, debate, or even an argument to try to draw their opinion out so that I can learn more, but to say that person has no credibility because of that opinion IMO is extremely objectionable - and no one “owes” an explanation. I’ve been wrong enough on my own strongly held positions that I know better than to be that dismissive of another poster. I think we’ve all been there in FF.

[remedy29]

1qb PPR

1) Ja’Marr Chase
2) Najee Harris
3) Kyle Pitts
4) Javontae Williams
5) Travis Etienne
6) Devonta Smith
7) Jaylen Waddle
8) Kadarius Toney
9) Rashod Bateman
10) Michael Carter
11) Kenneth Gainwell
12) Trevor Lawrence

[Sriracha]

1qb PPR

1) Ja’Marr Chase
2) Najee Harris
3) Kyle Pitts
4) Javontae Williams
5) Travis Etienne
6) Devonta Smith
7) Jaylen Waddle
8) Kadarius Toney
9) Rashod Bateman
10) Michael Carter
11) Kenneth Gainwell
12) Trevor Lawrence

Not to knock your rankings but I've always been curious about how people rank WRs so highly in rookie drafts?

Literally all of my rosters are chalk full of WR talent because I mine the 2nd/3rd rounds and have a decent hit rate there. For people that don't value RBs > WRs in the early 1st, what's the logic here? Do you guys just not hit in the later rounds so WR is a pressing need?

[murphysxm]

1qb PPR

1) Ja’Marr Chase
2) Najee Harris
3) Kyle Pitts
4) Javontae Williams
5) Travis Etienne
6) Devonta Smith
7) Jaylen Waddle
8) Kadarius Toney
9) Rashod Bateman
10) Michael Carter
11) Kenneth Gainwell
12) Trevor Lawrence

Not to knock your rankings but I've always been curious about how people rank WRs so highly in rookie drafts?

Literally all of my rosters are chalk full of WR talent because I mine the 2nd/3rd rounds and have a decent hit rate there. For people that don't value RBs > WRs in the early 1st, what's the logic here? Do you guys just not hit in the later rounds so WR is a pressing need?

This is a poor RB class, so I do view quite a bit of WR's over most of the RB's. I also have Chase at the top of my rankings as I think he is hands down the best WR/RB in this draft. Pushing RB's up the list in rookie drafts has you drafting Keshaun Vaughn over Justin Jefferson.