Russell Wilson Discussion Thread - Split with Seahawks?

[Cameron Giles]

Probably going to have to be Pete's team, or Wilson's team at some point.

I really wouldn't have thought it would come to this. But since coming into the league Wilson has been kind of a "Bull Durham" type quote. Always saying the "right" thing, never throwing players, coaches, or teammates under the bus. But under that veneer of aw-shucks team friendliness burns the fire of a competitor.

The guy is a Top-5 QB in the league, and he doesn't want to hand the ball off 30-35 times a game. He wants to play for a team that will let him air it out more, and it certainly doesn't appear that's the direction the coaching staff prefers. I don't necessarily think a trade will get done this offseason. But next year? I wouldn't bet anything meaningful on Wilson finishing his career in Seattle at this point as long as Carroll is the coach.

Good post.

There's been rumors two offseasons in a row about Russell possibly wanting out or the Seahawks entertaining the idea. There was the rumor that the Seahawks had back channel discussions about trading Russell for the #1 overall pick. Then there was another about Russell wanting to go to New York (which he does want to do).

It's definitely trending that way. Brady left New England because he thought if he had more input, he could win again. Seems like Russell is taking that same mentality.

[The MAC Machine]

The team was at its best when they ran the ball effectively and played defense. If Russ was dealt I’d be buying low on whoever the starting RB was.

[Pullo Vision]

The team was at its best when they ran the ball effectively and played defense. If Russ was dealt I’d be buying low on whoever the starting RB was.

Agreed but w Carson a FA, I don't see any rostered RBs carrying the mail.

[nathanq42]

The team was at its best when they ran the ball effectively and played defense. If Russ was dealt I’d be buying low on whoever the starting RB was.

Agreed but w Carson a FA, I don't see any rostered RBs carrying the mail.

Penny (admittedly on quite limited volume) has held a solid 5 ypc throughout his career. He has the build and measurables, hopefully he has the right mindset now (he was coming on strong in 2019 before his injury, and this year was a write off)

Its truly make or break year for the guy. An owner (and Hawks fan) can only hope he excels. But if I was betting I would wager against him sadly.

[Cameron Giles]

The team was at its best when they ran the ball effectively and played defense. If Russ was dealt I’d be buying low on whoever the starting RB was.

It should be noted though, that their defense was an all-time elite defense: Sherman, Thomas, Wright, Wagner, Chancellor, Bennett, Avril, McDaniel...they were loaded.

Chances are they're not going to have a defense like that anytime soon that allows them to get away with running the ball and playing conservative.

Pete Carroll's inability to realize that and adapt is likely why Russ wants out. Too many coaches want to win their way instead of playing to the strength of their talent.

[Shoreline Steamers]

The team was at its best when they ran the ball effectively and played defense. If Russ was dealt I’d be buying low on whoever the starting RB was.

It should be noted though, that their defense was an all-time elite defense: Sherman, Thomas, Wright, Wagner, Chancellor, Bennett, Avril, McDaniel...they were loaded.

Chances are they're not going to have a defense like that anytime soon that allows them to get away with running the ball and playing conservative.

Pete Carroll's inability to realize that and adapt is likely why Russ wants out. Too many coaches want to win their way instead of playing to the strength of their talent.

Yes!

And that's what's so funny about the Hawks season in 2020. Pete new the defense was weak heading into the year, so the offense was opened up to score more points in an effort to minimize his poor defenses' impact on the game. It worked pretty well for the first half of the season.

About that time the defense started to show some improvement, Wilson threw a couple more INT's than was acceptable, and Pete started calling for a more conservative approach on offense. Granted, this also became a necessity as defenses started taking away the deep shots to DK and Lockett that had been there earlier in the year. But Seattle's coaching staff seemed totally unable to figure out a counter-punch to the defensive strategies they faced from that point onward. Pete just wanted to revert to "his style" of football. He's still hammering that point home as the offseason progresses.

I'm not sure how much of this was Carroll's direct involvement, or if Schottenheimer was the catalyst behind the change in offensive philosophy midstream. But we know who the scapegoat for that failure was!

The team became very one dimensional, bordering on unwatchable for the last half of the year. They couldn't hit big plays in the passing or running game, too many 3-and-outs, stalled drives, and at best field goal attempts. Meanwhile, the defense continued to be mediocre, and when the team did win it was always a nail-biter in the 4th quarter. Of course, the savior in these games wasn't the defense. Wasn't the running game. It was Russell Wilson running around until he could make something happen.

When he was unable to do so, the Hawks lost. This probably sounds very anti-Carroll, though it's really not meant to be. He's up there with Chuck Knox and Mike Holmgren as the best coaches the Seahawks have ever had.

But I must agree with Cameron Giles, that a coaches' failure to maximize the talents of their players by utilizing a style of play that doesn't mesh with their strengths is stubborn, and a recipe for failure. Or mediocrity at best.

[Cameron Giles]

The team was at its best when they ran the ball effectively and played defense. If Russ was dealt I’d be buying low on whoever the starting RB was.

It should be noted though, that their defense was an all-time elite defense: Sherman, Thomas, Wright, Wagner, Chancellor, Bennett, Avril, McDaniel...they were loaded.

Chances are they're not going to have a defense like that anytime soon that allows them to get away with running the ball and playing conservative.

Pete Carroll's inability to realize that and adapt is likely why Russ wants out. Too many coaches want to win their way instead of playing to the strength of their talent.

Yes!

And that's what's so funny about the Hawks season in 2020. Pete new the defense was weak heading into the year, so the offense was opened up to score more points in an effort to minimize his poor defenses' impact on the game. It worked pretty well for the first half of the season.

About that time the defense started to show some improvement, Wilson threw a couple more INT's than was acceptable, and Pete started calling for a more conservative approach on offense. Granted, this also became a necessity as defenses started taking away the deep shots to DK and Lockett that had been there earlier in the year. But Seattle's coaching staff seemed totally unable to figure out a counter-punch to the defensive strategies they faced from that point onward. Pete just wanted to revert to "his style" of football. He's still hammering that point home as the offseason progresses.

I'm not sure how much of this was Carroll's direct involvement, or if Schottenheimer was the catalyst behind the change in offensive philosophy midstream. But we know who the scapegoat for that failure was!

The team became very one dimensional, bordering on unwatchable for the last half of the year. They couldn't hit big plays in the passing or running game, too many 3-and-outs, stalled drives, and at best field goal attempts. Meanwhile, the defense continued to be mediocre, and when the team did win it was always a nail-biter in the 4th quarter. Of course, the savior in these games wasn't the defense. Wasn't the running game. It was Russell Wilson running around until he could make something happen.

When he was unable to do so, the Hawks lost. This probably sounds very anti-Carroll, though it's really not meant to be. He's up there with Chuck Knox and Mike Holmgren as the best coaches the Seahawks have ever had.

But I must agree with Cameron Giles, that a coaches' failure to maximize the talents of their players by utilizing a style of play that doesn't mesh with their strengths is stubborn, and a recipe for failure. Or mediocrity at best.

Good post.

To me, any NFL team hiring Brian Schottenheimer as their OC these days is clueless. Wilson, as you mentioned, makes these guys look decent, just because of his ability to improvise.

It feels like most great coaches don't revert their style when defenses figure them out for a few games. They just add wrinkles to the foundation and look to execute better. Carroll runs away and uses it as an excuse to play more conservative.

Russ just needs to get to a good offensive mind at this point.

[Lumps]

The team was at its best when they ran the ball effectively and played defense. If Russ was dealt I’d be buying low on whoever the starting RB was.

Good stuff

Good stuff very specific to Hawks

I would say this is a far too common issue in the NFL, not just the Hawks. How many DCs have we seen get hired, and run a 3-4 when the personnel is set up for a 4-3? Or vice versa? So we have a fire sale of defensive players and/or cram round pegs at square holes. I cannot for the life of me figure out a) why wasn't this a consideration of choice in DC? or b) why isn't the DC adapting?

I guess the answer we all know is - "management is more important than labor." Then, you wind up like the Texans.

[StripesOfKC]

Schotty is the scapegoat. He gave them the effing Ferrari offense Seahawks fans had wanted for years and after one bad game (Rams first game and a little bit of Bills second half--turnovers) Pete took the keys and pulled the Volvo back into the parking lot of a first round exit

[Shoreline Steamers]

To me, any NFL team hiring Brian Schottenheimer as their OC these days is clueless. Wilson, as you mentioned, makes these guys look decent, just because of his ability to improvise.

It feels like most great coaches don't revert their style when defenses figure them out for a few games. They just add wrinkles to the foundation and look to execute better. Carroll runs away and uses it as an excuse to play more conservative.

Russ just needs to get to a good offensive mind at this point.

Well, I'm am hopeful things will work out this way in Seattle. I don't know how accurate/true it is, but some of the early chatter when Shane Waldron was named as the OC was that he had his hand in the way the Rams schemed things (philosophy) on offense.

Something they did that Seattle didn't is run multiple plays from the same formation. Same look, different intent with the ball. This approach, at least on paper, will keep the defense guessing since many formations will look the same pre-snap. Hopefully this is a wrinkle they can implement to keep defenders off-balance, or at least break up some of the blanket coverage that DK and Lockett saw the second half of the season.

I'm not sure what to make of the hire though. Is this someone Pete felt like he could keep under his thumb? How does Russell feel about the hire? Questions I'm not in a position to know anything about.

[Farley]

There are some great posts going on in this thread. I tend to agree with many of the views based on how I saw the Seahawks season unfold.

My guess is that Wilson is not too enthused about the Waldron hiring. Possibly because he knows Carroll will have his fingerprints all over this offense going forward.

In the end, this comes down to ego and legacy. Pete, a known player's coach, should understand that Wilson wants to be part of a modern offense with the few seasons he has left in his prime. It's a very reasonable ask. One he should be more than willing to provide to his franchise player. Hell, if it wasn't for Wilson, Carroll probably doesn't have the SB win and the other Should-have-won. He may have gone down as yet another failed college coach experiment.

On top of owing Wilson, it's also the right football move from a winning perspective. You're not going to put up enough points in the toughest division in football pounding the rock with mediocre backs behind a less-than-average line.

Pete's pretty old. He doesn't have the time to go through a rebuild. Either he trades for Dak or relents to Wilson. Regardless, ending this media circus soon should be a priority.

It's fun to talk about it in a forum or listen to it on sports radio, but this is going to be terrible for the team if it drags on. Especially with two of the other teams in the division making moves and receiving good press right now.

[ravn88]

Tyler Lockett getting a 4 year 69 mil deal.

I not sure I get what they are doing in Seattle.

When Wilson can make Dissly, a viable receiving TE, and Metcalf an instant top WR, why do you pay RB and WR.

Spend the money on Defense and OL and draft RBs and WRs once their Rookie deals expires.
Maybe take a flyers on cheap RBs and Wrs.

[nathanq42]

Tyler Lockett getting a 4 year 69 mil deal.

I not sure I get what they are doing in Seattle.

When Wilson can make Dissly, a viable receiving TE, and Metcalf an instant top WR, why do you pay RB and WR.

Spend the money on Defense and OL and draft RBs and WRs once their Rookie deals expires.
Maybe take a flyers on cheap RBs and Wrs.

Agreed, I think Russ with a solid Oline and no Lockett > Russ getting pressured every play and having Lockett

[Patsfan86]

Tyler Lockett getting a 4 year 69 mil deal.

I not sure I get what they are doing in Seattle.

When Wilson can make Dissly, a viable receiving TE, and Metcalf an instant top WR, why do you pay RB and WR.

Spend the money on Defense and OL and draft RBs and WRs once their Rookie deals expires.
Maybe take a flyers on cheap RBs and Wrs.

They are making Russ a happy man is what they are doing. I think this Wilson trade talk can end now. Russ would have been mad if they let Lockett walk. They also gave him a weapon in Everett. They are fully caving to Wilson. This offense is going to be fun.

[ravn88]

But i doubt, it will provide more wins