Fournette - what to do with him

[KingsKing]

I’d honestly like to see him come back at 220-225 next year. I think losing 10-15 pounds would help his speed and agility

[OhCruelestRanter]

He ran angry against KC. Averaged over 20 PPR PPG during the playoffs and was over 18 in every game. I wonder if Tampa just keeps him.

[The MAC Machine]

He ran angry against KC. Averaged over 20 PPR PPG during the playoffs and was over 18 in every game. I wonder if Tampa just keeps him.

He must have been reading the comments on this forum that discounts his talent because of production for a team he signed a contract for 6 days before the season started.

[_yeti]

You removed all context and misquoted me as if I didn't immediately in the same sentence say that wasn't the issue.

I also clarified what I was saying prior to you posting this list.

Relax boss, you said "I am wondering". Not "I wondered". If you didn't like my response, next time say what you mean then. "I wondered if height was an issue, but after _____ and _____ I'm thinking it isn't". Sure, you said other things after that but none of it negated "I am wondering" as you went on to still harp on his height by saying a better height might be 5'10 or 5'11. Bringing up Latavius Murray as a success story for 6ft rb's is just baffling. This whole convo is idiotic, next time just say what you mean in the first place, and if you goof by writing a meandering mess then don't blame others for your mistake.

I'm relaxed boss. I haven't posted a lot this year so I didn't remember how people will try to totally dunk on a person in a disingenuous way for no reason. I'll admit that it was a meandering post, somewhat train-of-thought - but you read the entire sentence, knew I immediately said RBs have success at taller, even 6'3, and THEN you were like let me quote half a sentence and post a list of RBs. So why'd you do that, chief? "None of it negated I am wondering"? Big word, negated, explain how the rest of the sentence and paragraph didn't negate "I am wondering."

"I am wondering if Fournette is too tall to play NFL RB, but Latavius Murray is like 3 inches taller than him. Murray is leaner and tries less to bang, though he takes on contact. Did Fournette think he was going to bully the NFL bc that hasn't happened. Low man wins in football and though the sweet spot for RBs seems to be like 5'10 or 5'11 Fournette always seems slow and too high to play as strong as he wants to."

To explain my thoughts, I think the perception of Fournette coming out of college was that he was massive, definitely appeared bigger than his actual size and appeared likely to manhandle the NFL much like college. So he has always seemed bigger than he is, at least to me. So, I began the post in a bit of a rambling manner about how he has appeared too tall or upright, but then reminded myself other backs have success at taller heights. Latavius Murray wasn't listed as a "success story" just an example that guys have success at the position who are taller. The funny thing is Ice posted a list of tall backs before you did and I responded:
"I think you misunderstand what I was saying, that's why I mentioned Murray. Murray and Henry are both much leaner than him regardless of the amount of weight they are carrying. I am saying bullying people at the NFL at his size isn't working and would work better at 5'10. I think if he lost a solid 10-15 pounds focusing on all speed, agility, and cardio he would be a significantly better back and would still be solid at 6 ft 210/215. He has more talent than he has shown."

Then you posted your list "dunking" on me with a cherry-picked half a sentence quote.

I hadn't really put it together until some back-and-forth in this post that the problem is he needs to drop some body fat percentage and realize he needs to work harder to have success in the NFL, won't just walk over it as he had appeared to try to do.

That's the explanation, not sure posting a meandering post is a mistake that changes what my sentence clearly said. Look, I can do it too, wow

If you didn't like my response, This is idiotic, you goof by writing.

[ArrylT]

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-jags-rb ... 54624.html

Interesting story. Which if true, gives a plausible reason why he was cut the way he was cut / when. I think it also serves as a reminder than NFL organizations not monolithic organizations that think & act in lockstep. Rather if a portion of organization has it out for you (similar to perhaos RGIII in Washington) then it makes it that much harder to succeed.

This does not exonerate or make Fournette blameless for anything. Rather like I said, it is always important to remember that even "professionals" like coaches & management officials can do things irrationally or act in petty ways. that do not serve their organization or the players on that team. Just like higher draft picks have that additional positive bias because teams want to justify their picks will be successful , they may do things to prove why their decisions to cut or give up on players are justified.

[FantasyFreak]

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-jags-rb ... 54624.html

Interesting story. Which if true, gives a plausible reason why he was cut the way he was cut / when. I think it also serves as a reminder than NFL organizations not monolithic organizations that think & act in lockstep. Rather if a portion of organization has it out for you (similar to perhaos RGIII in Washington) then it makes it that much harder to succeed.

This does not exonerate or make Fournette blameless for anything. Rather like I said, it is always important to remember that even "professionals" like coaches & management officials can do things irrationally or act in petty ways. that do not serve their organization or the players on that team. Just like higher draft picks have that additional positive bias because teams want to justify their picks will be successful , they may do things to prove why their decisions to cut or give up on players are justified.

I find it hard to believe a team would purposely refuse draft capital just to make somebody feel bad, but if they did, they are an even worse organization than I thought. This Robiskie guy may have his own axe to grind, and issues behind the scenes, for all we know.

[Jrblaha]

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-jags-rb ... 54624.html

Interesting story. Which if true, gives a plausible reason why he was cut the way he was cut / when. I think it also serves as a reminder than NFL organizations not monolithic organizations that think & act in lockstep. Rather if a portion of organization has it out for you (similar to perhaos RGIII in Washington) then it makes it that much harder to succeed.

This does not exonerate or make Fournette blameless for anything. Rather like I said, it is always important to remember that even "professionals" like coaches & management officials can do things irrationally or act in petty ways. that do not serve their organization or the players on that team. Just like higher draft picks have that additional positive bias because teams want to justify their picks will be successful , they may do things to prove why their decisions to cut or give up on players are justified.

I find it hard to believe a team would purposely refuse draft capital just to make somebody feel bad, but if they did, they are an even worse organization than I thought. This Robiskie guy may have his own axe to grind, and issues behind the scenes, for all we know.

Nothing would surprise me anymore about what people would do to make themselves feel better (or to make others feel worse). People are wild.

[Plank]

This should be taught in schools ..

[Jrblaha]

I do love that book

[ArrylT]

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-jags-rb ... 54624.html

Interesting story. Which if true, gives a plausible reason why he was cut the way he was cut / when. I think it also serves as a reminder than NFL organizations not monolithic organizations that think & act in lockstep. Rather if a portion of organization has it out for you (similar to perhaos RGIII in Washington) then it makes it that much harder to succeed.

This does not exonerate or make Fournette blameless for anything. Rather like I said, it is always important to remember that even "professionals" like coaches & management officials can do things irrationally or act in petty ways. that do not serve their organization or the players on that team. Just like higher draft picks have that additional positive bias because teams want to justify their picks will be successful , they may do things to prove why their decisions to cut or give up on players are justified.

I find it hard to believe a team would purposely refuse draft capital just to make somebody feel bad, but if they did, they are an even worse organization than I thought. This Robiskie guy may have his own axe to grind, and issues behind the scenes, for all we know.

The way I read it is that through backdoor channels some people in the organization were actively bad-mouthing him, which therefore was a factor that led to a lack of offers. Dont think the organization as a whole would have refused draft capital - just that the actions of some of the staff could have led to a situation where few offers came in & add that to his already on thin ice due to past disagreements with Coughlin (even if Coughlin is gone doubt all the people who wanted him there were gone too) led to a point where they decided to cut ties. In the end it certainly benefited him more than hurt, since he could choose his own destination and ended up being a SB Champ. Not to mention that the Jaguars have parted ways with a lot of their draft picks in unexpected or odd ways these past years.

Also that Robiskie is the same guy who used to coach for the Raiders, and has been around a long time - so while I certainly agree that people can have axes to grind - I dont think or get the sense that it was done in that manner - more him being perhaps more forthright / honest than he would have been had he been still on the staff. Also Robiskie definitely does not absolve Fournette of all 'guilt'.

This article I think has a better angle.

https://www.espn.com/blog/tampa-bay-buc ... om-jaguars

[Pullo Vision]

I'll always remember Fournette saying the NFL was easy before he even had his rookie season.

That said, this was interesting from the ESPN article-

Fournette has unquestionably become one of Brady’s favorites. The two met when Fournette signed with Under Armour in 2017, and a friendship began to blossom before Brady even called him to recruit him to Tampa.

“Our relationship just grew and grew, and since he wanted me here, it went farther,” Fournette said. “Just having him back there every day, understanding what he wants out of us – you can’t find a better guy to have as your quarterback, and even a better person to be around each and every day.”

[abloom]

Looks like Fournette production is going to be tied to rojo. One fumble and rojo has been sitting since.

[FantasyFreak]

Looks like Fournette production is going to be tied to rojo. One fumble and rojo has been sitting since.

Yep. Arians did this last year, too. Rojo will be back in next game. I still firmly believe (as do all the analytics), that Rojo is the better runner by quite a bit, but Arians goes all Coughlin on Rojo with the fumbles, though he doesn't really fumble all that much.

[dynastyninja]

Looks like Fournette production is going to be tied to rojo. One fumble and rojo has been sitting since.

Yep. Arians did this last year, too. Rojo will be back in next game. I still firmly believe (as do all the analytics), that Rojo is the better runner by quite a bit, but Arians goes all Coughlin on Rojo with the fumbles, though he doesn't really fumble all that much.

I don't think either guy is miles better than the other. I think Fournette will get more time, though, because he's more predictable and consistent. He's also got a good relationship with TB12.

[FantasyFreak]

Looks like Fournette production is going to be tied to rojo. One fumble and rojo has been sitting since.

Yep. Arians did this last year, too. Rojo will be back in next game. I still firmly believe (as do all the analytics), that Rojo is the better runner by quite a bit, but Arians goes all Coughlin on Rojo with the fumbles, though he doesn't really fumble all that much.

I don't think either guy is miles better than the other. I think Fournette will get more time, though, because he's more predictable and consistent. He's also got a good relationship with TB12.

I mean, Rojo graded out as one of the top runners last year (rushing grade only), and Fournette was miles below him.

One thing I wasn't aware of, was that Rojo was deemed a "game time decision" by Arians, with an injury, so that may have had something to do with it as well. He said he'd give him some time and see if he could go, and how he did, if he played.