Conditional Draft Pick Trading

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
olmansmith
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Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby olmansmith » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:57 pm

What are people's thoughts on conditional draft pick trading? From what I understand there's 3 main types:
1. if a player meets certain conditions, a draft pick elevates from one year to another (like 2022 3rd to 2021 3rd) - this is like what happened in the NFL with Kwon Alexander in the saints-niners trade
2. if a player meets certain conditions, a draft pick elevates rounds (like 2021 3rd to 2021 2nd) - this is like what happened in the NFL with Donovan McNabb in the eagles-WFT trade
3. if a pick is high enough, it downgrades a round (like if a 2021 2nd is > 2.04 the trade results in a 2021 3rd instead) - I'm not personally aware of any NFL examples but I believe its like the NBA protected picks trades

I've seen people discuss getting the pick back completely (instead of downgrading/upgrading) in certain situations - I'm not a fan of that because its essentially just giving a player then. Also seen "conditional players" where 1 player gets flipped to another in certain cases - not a fan of that since it has various avenues that can lead to collusion

To give an example dynasty trade, in one of my leagues, Chase Edmonds was bought after Drake got hurt for a 2021 2nd and a 2022 4th. If Edmonds ends up being traded away again or would have been good enough to start at least 5 times in 2021, the 2022 4th becomes a 2022 2nd.

I understand this could be a headache to keep track of for the commissioner, but barring that issue, any general problems with it or benefits that people have seen in their leagues?

bjd5211
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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:03 pm

If it's allowed and rules for it are completely spelled out in the bylaws then it's fine.

If it's not specified or poorly worded it shouldn't be utilized.

It's a tricky setting to do right, but I'm sure there are leagues out there that do it successfully.

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby AussieMate » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:19 pm

Desperate to win years ago and with Julio injured I traded Julio for Josh Gordon (before his many falls) with a condition that if I won the comp we would swap our 1st and 2nd, he was dead last so it was only a small move but it did make it interesting. I'm yet to do another like it but would be willing to give it a shot if someone came forward with an interesting offer.

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby dustyroads » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:46 pm

It can help push along trades that are close but not quite there, much more so than a next-to-worthless throw in rookie pick from the 5th round may. Also helps in leagues where majority of owners are trade averse, it can stimulate some action. Most people avoid trades because they over-value their own team (hard to overcome) or because they are overly wary about having a bad outcome in the future (can be mitigated with some conditions added to trades). I've had quite a few conditional trades in my league that were successful, mostly of the third variety you mentioned. We have a lot of league parity so when trading a future pick, especially one in the first two rounds, it's real hard to predict where it will land. Someone who doesn't want to trade a 1st round pick because of "what if it winds up top 5?" can be swayed with a condition of "if it's pick 1-5 it'll be a 2nd round pick, 6-12 it would be a 1st". Also had a few with players mid-season who had a decent chance to retire at the end of the year, saying if they retire it they retire it was "x" value but if they remain in the league it was "x+y" value. Not that complicated so long as the terms are fully fleshed out, and should be recorded somewhere with visibility to the entire league for record keeping and transparency throughout the season/off-season.

olmansmith
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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby olmansmith » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:56 pm

Ah nice to hear some others have used it. In your leagues, do you just block all parts of a conditional trade from future trades? like in the case "if it's pick 1-5 it'll be a 2nd round pick, 6-12 it would be a 1st" I assume that means that the owner can't deal their 1st or 2nd to anyone else so both picks are held for the rest of the season

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby abloom » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:25 am

olmansmith wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:56 pm Ah nice to hear some others have used it. In your leagues, do you just block all parts of a conditional trade from future trades? like in the case "if it's pick 1-5 it'll be a 2nd round pick, 6-12 it would be a 1st" I assume that means that the owner can't deal their 1st or 2nd to anyone else so both picks are held for the rest of the season
thats pretty much the issue that you run into when not thought out, and since there are few ways of actually locking the pick to that owner, it creates problems when the conditional pick is accidently traded away and not caught immediately.

I dont think there is inherently anything wrong with allowing conditional picks (though the conditions should be outlined in the bylaws) but it really needs to be monitored.
Team #1: 2nd place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K

Q: Kyler, Fields, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens, wilson
T: Kelce, Goedert, Thomas, woods
D: cle, nyj
K: Sanders

Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K

Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson, Browning, Rudolph, Zappe
R: Swift, Walker, Dobbins, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen, Nuk, Tre tucker, C Samuel,
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE

Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F

Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson

Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0004&O=01

Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0009&O=01

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby Ruggenater » Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:58 am

olmansmith wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:57 pm I understand this could be a headache to keep track of for the commissioner, but barring that issue, any general problems with it or benefits that people have seen in their leagues?
This piece is the biggest issue by far. If conditional trades are used extensively, monitoring what is and isn’t available and how the pieces will finally settle could be a massive headache.
12 Team Superflex - PPR, 0.25 PPC - QB/2RB/3WR/TE/Flex/Superflex
QB: L Jackson, Tagovailoa, Rodgers, Pickett, Tannehill
RB: Swift, Pacheco, Sanders, Hubbard, Spears, Dillon, Herbert, McLaughlin, Chandler, Dowdle
WR: DeVonta, Waddle, Aiyuk, Nacua, McLaurin, Hopkins, M Williams, Mingo, Wan’Dale, Hyatt
TE: Kelce, Okonkwo, Schoonmaker

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby zoster80 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:35 am

abloom wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:25 am
olmansmith wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:56 pm Ah nice to hear some others have used it. In your leagues, do you just block all parts of a conditional trade from future trades? like in the case "if it's pick 1-5 it'll be a 2nd round pick, 6-12 it would be a 1st" I assume that means that the owner can't deal their 1st or 2nd to anyone else so both picks are held for the rest of the season
thats pretty much the issue that you run into when not thought out, and since there are few ways of actually locking the pick to that owner, it creates problems when the conditional pick is accidently traded away and not caught immediately.

I dont think there is inherently anything wrong with allowing conditional picks (though the conditions should be outlined in the bylaws) but it really needs to be monitored.
I am big fan of them, it does make it hard on the Commish when reconciling picks, prior to draft day. We keep a draft log spreadsheet for the whole league to see which makes things clear. I’ve gone as far color coordinating the picks, they are conditional they’ll standout.

It’s makes many trades a win/win. I love getting old guy or guy on a make break year like DJohnson or R Jones as a contender and make deal like...I’ll send a conditional 2nd, if they are a top 18 Rb it will escalate to a 1st. In the case of this year R Jones would had kicked in the escalator and the rebuilder gets a good deal.

In the case of having the both picks in limbo, in my league many guys will disclose the contingency and say something like “if I keep my 2021 first I’ll send it if not I’ll send my 2021 2nd and 2022 2nd” something to that affect.

I have a guy who’s gambler in one of my leagues, who didn’t want to let go of J Meyers in preseason and they offered him a 5th and if he scored a TD in first game it would jump to a 2nd. He he couldn’t resist and sent him off. Lol

The NFL does it, I like to emulate our leagues to be like an NFL GM, so it more reason to do it. Don’t be scared to add it to your league it will create more action.
Zo Nasty -12 Teams, PPR, 30 players - Keep 24
Start QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, TE, 2 Flex, K, DST

QB: Herbert, B Young
RB: Bijan, Warren, Z Moss, K Ingram, J kelley
WR: D London, Z Flowers, JSN, J Reed, QJ G Davis, Gallup, DPJ, M Mims, J Metchie, W Robinson, J Tolbert, J Jennings
TE: J Ferguson Fant, J Johnson, Gesicki
DST: Colts NE
K: Butker

2024 Picks
1.03,1.05,1.06,1.10,3.05,4.05,5.05,6.05
2025 Picks
1,2,3,4,5,6
_________________________
PLP - 12 Teams, PPR, 29 Active roster - Keep 23 + 4 taxi
Start QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, TE, 2 Flex, K, DST

QB: Burrow Dobbs, R Wilson, Stidham, Carr,
RB: CMC, Hall, K Walker, Swift, M Sanders M Carter, K Gainwell, CEH, Hunt, C Evans, E Wilson, P Taylor, D Johnson,
WR: DJM, Metcalf, AJ Brown, Hopkins, M Gallup, Chark, T Scott, P Washington, G Dortch, J Watson, R Woods
TE: M Andrews, Fant , Hudson, Higbee, L Thomas, J Johnson,
DST: SF, PHI

TAXI:
C Jones, B Strange, J Shorter, W Levis
2024 Picks
4.11,5.11,6.05, 6.11[/size]
2025 Picks
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2026 Picks
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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby dustyroads » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:55 am

olmansmith wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:56 pm Ah nice to hear some others have used it. In your leagues, do you just block all parts of a conditional trade from future trades? like in the case "if it's pick 1-5 it'll be a 2nd round pick, 6-12 it would be a 1st" I assume that means that the owner can't deal their 1st or 2nd to anyone else so both picks are held for the rest of the season
Yeah we tend to lean towards just locking out both picks until it’s determined; but you could continue adding conditionals. Honestly my league doesn’t trade a ton so it doesn’t come up often where conditions effect other trades. We also have always resolved most conditions by the end of a league year (once a winner is declared) or at the latest by the rookie draft (so if the condition was a player retiring or not, if they didn’t retire by our rookie draft date we consider it null; if they retire a few days before week 1 you’re outta luck). Really could do it a myriad of ways, just comes down to agreeing to a basic rule set and letting the commish work out the rest. Definitely more work for them, though other league mates try to chip in and help when they can.

On that note, having some cool but work intensive settings like above are why dynasty leagues should consider making commish fees a part of the seasonal league buy in. At the very least, if you aren’t paying your commish a small fee up front, the league winner/s should be tipping out to them at seasons end once payouts come. IMHO obviously, but a complicated dynasty league can take a lot of time and effort all year long. Especially if you have a lot of whiners and people who can’t seem to “technology” well and always need support. Been in enough leagues over the years, an active, organized, impartial commissioner is worth throwing a few bucks at to keep everyone else just focused on having fun.

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby olmansmith » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:55 am

zoster80 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:35 am I have a guy who’s gambler in one of my leagues, who didn’t want to let go of J Meyers in preseason and they offered him a 5th and if he scored a TD in first game it would jump to a 2nd. He he couldn’t resist and sent him off. Lol
Hah that's an oddly specific condition.

But thanks all! Will def put adding it to a vote this offseason.

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby joeday » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:23 am

I've often wished we could do this more in fantasy football
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1996 | 2005 | 2012 | 2013 | 2014 | 2017 – 🏆
1999 | 2000 | 2019 | 2020 – 🥈

14 team | 4 keepers | non ppr | est. 1996
QB –
RB – Christian McCaffrey | Josh Jacobs
WR – AJ Brown | CeeDee Lamb
TE –

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby Paul717 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:40 am

olmansmith wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:57 pm What are people's thoughts on conditional draft pick trading? From what I understand there's 3 main types:
1. if a player meets certain conditions, a draft pick elevates from one year to another (like 2022 3rd to 2021 3rd) - this is like what happened in the NFL with Kwon Alexander in the saints-niners trade
2. if a player meets certain conditions, a draft pick elevates rounds (like 2021 3rd to 2021 2nd) - this is like what happened in the NFL with Donovan McNabb in the eagles-WFT trade
3. if a pick is high enough, it downgrades a round (like if a 2021 2nd is > 2.04 the trade results in a 2021 3rd instead) - I'm not personally aware of any NFL examples but I believe its like the NBA protected picks trades

I've seen people discuss getting the pick back completely (instead of downgrading/upgrading) in certain situations - I'm not a fan of that because its essentially just giving a player then. Also seen "conditional players" where 1 player gets flipped to another in certain cases - not a fan of that since it has various avenues that can lead to collusion

To give an example dynasty trade, in one of my leagues, Chase Edmonds was bought after Drake got hurt for a 2021 2nd and a 2022 4th. If Edmonds ends up being traded away again or would have been good enough to start at least 5 times in 2021, the 2022 4th becomes a 2022 2nd.

I understand this could be a headache to keep track of for the commissioner, but barring that issue, any general problems with it or benefits that people have seen in their leagues?
I'm personally a fan of conditional trades on the condition (no pun intended) that the terms are super clear. For example, the bolded part above; that would make me itch lol. That needs to be spelled out much more clearly. Be clear on timeframes too. For example if a player has to be "Top 10 in the 2021 season"; specify what that really means. Something like: "IF player X is Top 10 according to our scoring system, during the Fantasy regular season; I.E. Weeks 1-13 THEN...etc."
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Jordan Love, Deshaun Watson
RB: Travis Etienne, Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, Kendre Miller, Jaleel McLaughlin, Sean Tucker, Deuce Vaughn
WR: A.J. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Tee Higgins, Calvin Ridley, Michael Wilson, Kendrick Bourne, Tutu Atwell, Allen Lazard, Isaiah Hodgins, Xavier Hutchinson
TE: T.J. Hockenson, Cole Kmet, Kylen Granson
K: Didn't make the playoffs in 2023 :cry: , and don't usually hold one in the offseason
Team DST: Cowboys, Lions

Picks:
2024: All my picks except 3rd rounder

Disclaimer: My one and only Championship in this league was way back in 2011. Therefore, take my replies with the appropriate grain of salt. :lol:

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby olmansmith » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:17 am

Paul717 wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:40 am
olmansmith wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:57 pm What are people's thoughts on conditional draft pick trading? From what I understand there's 3 main types:
1. if a player meets certain conditions, a draft pick elevates from one year to another (like 2022 3rd to 2021 3rd) - this is like what happened in the NFL with Kwon Alexander in the saints-niners trade
2. if a player meets certain conditions, a draft pick elevates rounds (like 2021 3rd to 2021 2nd) - this is like what happened in the NFL with Donovan McNabb in the eagles-WFT trade
3. if a pick is high enough, it downgrades a round (like if a 2021 2nd is > 2.04 the trade results in a 2021 3rd instead) - I'm not personally aware of any NFL examples but I believe its like the NBA protected picks trades

I've seen people discuss getting the pick back completely (instead of downgrading/upgrading) in certain situations - I'm not a fan of that because its essentially just giving a player then. Also seen "conditional players" where 1 player gets flipped to another in certain cases - not a fan of that since it has various avenues that can lead to collusion

To give an example dynasty trade, in one of my leagues, Chase Edmonds was bought after Drake got hurt for a 2021 2nd and a 2022 4th. If Edmonds ends up being traded away again or would have been good enough to start at least 5 times in 2021, the 2022 4th becomes a 2022 2nd.

I understand this could be a headache to keep track of for the commissioner, but barring that issue, any general problems with it or benefits that people have seen in their leagues?
I'm personally a fan of conditional trades on the condition (no pun intended) that the terms are super clear. For example, the bolded part above; that would make me itch lol. That needs to be spelled out much more clearly. Be clear on timeframes too. For example if a player has to be "Top 10 in the 2021 season"; specify what that really means. Something like: "IF player X is Top 10 according to our scoring system, during the Fantasy regular season; I.E. Weeks 1-13 THEN...etc."
Ah yeah I didn't spell it all out since the post wasn't about that trade in particular. The specific condition was that if edmonds scored high enough 5 times that if the owner set their optimal lineup they'd have started edmonds. It was both a bet on the owner's depth and a a defense in case edmonds dropped off to 3rd on the depth chart because of an incoming rookie or something along those lines. in most scenarios, this trade probably ends up as 2 2nds.

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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby Ice » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:27 pm

Nothing wrong if it's in the rules. Never allowed in the leagues I ran or played in because it's too much work for the Commish.

Herding the Cats is hard enough for the Commish is my take. Owners should just make a deal with compensation or not IMO.

If I had to do it then compensation would be strictly NFL performance based on the NFL regular season and conditional picks would only be for the better. IE a 2nd would turn into a 1st if Beasley hit 1000 yards receiving. It must be simple.

Picks going the other way would raise collusion concerns.
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Re: Conditional Draft Pick Trading

Postby ThunderTung » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:26 pm

My league uses conditions in abundance lol Just for the upcoming draft we had 5 trades with conditions.

its not all that difficult to track them, we just keep them in a document, and spell out the conditions as they come in.

As commissioner of this league, im not even the one who keeps the book. This document specifies automatic ownership, and ownership of conditions.

If a pick is held in condition, it becomes unavailable to trade. The document is public so if it does happen its the owners fault, and its usually resolved quickly.

We don't have restrictions on which conditions you use minus any monetary conditions.

Makes trading a lot more fun, and gives an uneasy trade partner a boost of confidence knowing that they won't absolutely get wrecked if it doesn't go their way.

Once the conditions have been met, or otherwise failed I usually try to make that public so there is no delay in trading again if that owner decides to do so.
12 man IDP 0.5 ppr

QB(1): Geno Smith
RB(2): ETN/Walker III
WR(2): Chase/Lamb
TE(1): Goedert
FLEX(2): Stevenson/Garrett Wilson
K: Mcpherson
DL(2): T. Walker/Vea
LB(2): D. Long/TJ Edwards
DB(2) Dugger/Moehrig
FLEX: Kenneth Murray
IR: J. Hicks/Milano/Marcus Jones
Bench:
QB: Mac Jones/Bryce Young
RB: Zeke/D. Harris
WR: N. Brown/Demario Douglas/Bobby Trees/Parker/Tyler Scott
TE: Bellinger/Schultz
DL: Barrett/J. Davis/Yannick/
LB: Milano/Edwards/K. Murray/J. Smith
DB: Mathieu/Jonothan Owens


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