Sam Darnold going forward

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stoneghost28
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby stoneghost28 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:52 am

Ice wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:18 am
Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.
We're like opposite sides of the same coin.

You see nothing but the horror show #'s.

I see nothing but the horror show organization, bottom 3 in the NFL his entire NFL career, bottom 2-3 coaching staff since they fired Bowles after his rookie year, and bottom 3-4 supporting cast for a QB in the league his final two seasons.

You're not looking at the nuance which is that nearly all quality QB's have elite supporting casts which explains a good chunk of the success and nearly all awful QB's have terrible supporting casts which certainly must play a role (as does terrible coaching which he also has).

All that being said, there's no evidence that Darnold could actually be good or great, he's never been other than the finale month of his rookie season which is a tiny sample size that can be excused away as mere randomness, but it does seem telling that the one stretch of his career where he wasn't awful was when he had two reasonable starting WR's in Enunwa and Robby Anderson, a legit TE in Herndon, and competent RB play and blocking upfront before the OL was let go piece by piece in the ensuing offseasons plus in Bowles he had a legit coach that year, as compared to laughing stock Case.

Still, '18 was solid, '19 and '20 were god awful at best, so definitely no evidence yet beyond what he did in college that he's any good.

I just think when you're digging around looking for QB's that might be better than advertised, you can see that Darnold dealt with exactly the same thing Tannehill did while he was a nothing '12-'18, and that was totally incompetent coaching, and awful offenses, heck they even had the same idiot coach in Gase though Tannehill can only blame him for '16-'18, and not '12-'15 (then again his coach in stage 1 sucked too).


It's a roll of the dice, no doubt, no proof, but I'd go after Darnold on the cheap in fantasy (especially superflex/2QB) and if my terrible redskins make the playoffs, Darnold will be one of the only potential solutions to the QB problems since they will have played themselves out of a trade up or at slot drafting of Lance/Wilson. My only concern as a Redskins/WFT fan w/Darnold as a booby prize is that his rookie deal is done soon, and it doesn't sound like the Jets would be willing to trade him at a commensurate discount acknowledging that fact. Unless I can get Darnold for a Day 3 pick, and an extension on the cheap, I have no interest as a real pro football team. 3 of his seasons are in the can, only 1+an extension are left. Not enough to justify paying much if you're a real team in terms of trade assets for him. You can always sign him as a FA in '22 or '23 if he shows anything or doesn't after all, and avoid giving up any comp of note. I wonder what the Jets are gonna be asking for? Ditto the Jags if they try to trade Minchew.

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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby Servo » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:02 pm

The Jets should absolutely move on from Darnold, time will tell if Fields, Wilson, Nance, etc are even good NFL QB's but Darnold appears serviceable at best and that isn't going to alter your franchise.

I think these types of guys should try to go the Tannehill route and go be a "back up" on a decent roster and maybe their luck changes.
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby stoneghost28 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:30 pm

Drafting Fields is a no brainer, especially when you consider that he comes with a five year window to evaluate. W/Darnold they have 1 year left to evaluate, and the returns through 3 years are disappointing at best.

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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby Ice » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:46 pm

stoneghost28 wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:52 am
Ice wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:18 am
Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.
We're like opposite sides of the same coin.

You see nothing but the horror show #'s.

I see nothing but the horror show organization,
Well I agree it is a horror show.

I thought he was massive reach when drafted. I evaluated him coming into the league as a major risk. He simply doesn't look to have the necessary skill sets to be a star in this league. Too many ignored the significant drop off in his game his last year of college. He threw way too many interceptions his last year. He was always suspect reading defenses. Nothing has changed.
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby The Godwin Complex » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:20 pm

Ice wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:46 pm
stoneghost28 wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:52 am
Ice wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:18 am
Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.
We're like opposite sides of the same coin.

You see nothing but the horror show #'s.

I see nothing but the horror show organization,
Well I agree it is a horror show.

I thought he was massive reach when drafted. I evaluated him coming into the league as a major risk. He simply doesn't look to have the necessary skill sets to be a star in this league. Too many ignored the significant drop off in his game his last year of college. He threw way too many interceptions his last year. He was always suspect reading defenses. Nothing has changed.

1st of all....to be a star and a productive fantasy QB are 2 completely different things. Let’s be very clear about that. Alex Smith was never a star. Hell, for the first 5 or so years people blamed the ineptitude of the 49ers on him. However, when the 49ers finally got their crap together look what happened. Won the NFC West and lost to the Super Bowl champion Giants. Furthermore, even when replaced by Kaepernick and he went to KC people still doubted him....and look how well he did there. 3 Pro Bowls.

Moving on....

Look at what Darnold just did....he took a HORRIBLE team and beat 2 much superior, playoff contending teams, that were actually competing for something. To overlook that in my eyes is foolish and self serving only to what you want to believe, especially considering all of the times we try to knock players based on who they played (should i really unearth this list?) ....Anyone who overlooks Darnolds potential because of his crappy situation and makes excuses for someone like Carson while looking just as crappy in his crappy situation, can kick rocks. Darnold came into the league at the barely legal age of 21, to start for an organization that has been crumbling around him ever since he touched an NFL field, and we are expecting him to walk on water and perform miracles - we dont expect that of any QB we respect, including Carson.

Its going to be so gratifying watching Darnold pull an Alex Smith on the haters if he goes to another team.
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TE: B. Jarwin (DAL), M. Alie-Cox (IND)
FLEX: J. Landry (CLE), D. Harris (NE), R. Cobb (HOU)
SUPERFLEX: Sam Darnold (NYJ)


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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby remedy29 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:56 am

Ice wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:46 pm
stoneghost28 wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:52 am
Ice wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:18 am
Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.
We're like opposite sides of the same coin.

You see nothing but the horror show #'s.

I see nothing but the horror show organization,
Well I agree it is a horror show.

I thought he was massive reach when drafted. I evaluated him coming into the league as a major risk. He simply doesn't look to have the necessary skill sets to be a star in this league. Too many ignored the significant drop off in his game his last year of college. He threw way too many interceptions his last year. He was always suspect reading defenses. Nothing has changed.
How was Darnold a massive reach when many had him as the top QB in his draft class?
And if Darnold is a massive reach, how are any of this year's QBs not a massive reach, outside of Lawrence?

The Jets likely want to trade down, but I doubt any team will want to pay anything significant to trade up considering the QB prospect available and the fact that there are multiple QB prospects this year.
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby TB3falcons » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:08 am

I firmly expect the Jets to take a QB. Also believe Darnold will go to a new team with an open QB competition and be similar, but not nearly as good, as Tannehill. I think people are somehow underestimating Gase’s impact on the Jets.
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby Kmani6 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:28 am

TB3falcons wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:08 am
I firmly expect the Jets to take a QB. Also believe Darnold will go to a new team with an open QB competition and be similar, but not nearly as good, as Tannehill. I think people are somehow underestimating Gase’s impact on the Jets.
Or underestimating him having had to deal with both a bottom 3 line and receiving weapons. There are only a handful of NFL QBs that could make something of his situation. Coaching and having the proper supporting cast go a long way in developing young QBs, and Darnold has received neither of these things. I can't imagine someone like Josh Allen would be the player he is today or develop nearly as much as he has over the last few years if he was drafted into the Jets situation. This is in no way my support of Darnold as a future franchise QB, but more an honest assessment of his situation. It will be really interesting to see him either run it back with the Jets or compete for a job on another team with more weapons (maybe the Broncos?).
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:09 pm

Kmani6 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:28 am
TB3falcons wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:08 am
I firmly expect the Jets to take a QB. Also believe Darnold will go to a new team with an open QB competition and be similar, but not nearly as good, as Tannehill. I think people are somehow underestimating Gase’s impact on the Jets.
Or underestimating him having had to deal with both a bottom 3 line and receiving weapons. There are only a handful of NFL QBs that could make something of his situation. Coaching and having the proper supporting cast go a long way in developing young QBs, and Darnold has received neither of these things. I can't imagine someone like Josh Allen would be the player he is today or develop nearly as much as he has over the last few years if he was drafted into the Jets situation. This is in no way my support of Darnold as a future franchise QB, but more an honest assessment of his situation. It will be really interesting to see him either run it back with the Jets or compete for a job on another team with more weapons (maybe the Broncos?).
You're right, but the question you have to ask is who's a better QB long-term with improved coaching, a better line (maybe?), and more weapons:

Justin Fields or Sam Darnold?

I'm taking Fields, who will also be on a five-year rookie contract.

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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby jman3134 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:33 pm

Yes, but what would a game changing O line weapon do for the run game and or whichever qb is there? I would go o-line.
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:35 pm

jman3134 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:33 pm
Yes, but what would a game changing O line weapon do for the run game and or whichever qb is there? I would go o-line.
Joe Thomas made a huge difference for the Browns and all those playoff runs they made with him.

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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby jman3134 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:37 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:35 pm
jman3134 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:33 pm
Yes, but what would a game changing O line weapon do for the run game and or whichever qb is there? I would go o-line.
Joe Thomas made a huge difference for the Browns and all those playoff runs they made with him.
Gap between Fields and Darnold isn't as big as the gap in their abhorrent line and what they could get this year. Wait a year and there are three more Fields level players there. The Browns could never draft a qb to save their lives.

I am also not a Fields truther fwiw. I'd go Wilson anyway.
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby bjd5211 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:40 pm

Fields is proving he's clearly better than Wilson right now, and there are definitely not "3 more Fields level players" a year from now.

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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:41 pm

I get the thought that a QB drafted to NYJ is probably doomed. At minimum, they will have to fight to produce. And the Jets building the team before throwing a QB into the fire would be better for said QB. But that isn't going to happen for a lot of reasons. I can get behind them trading down if they get a haul because they need so much. They could get a few 1sts for #2 and pick a QB a little later in the first... But why not just go for the best QB available at 2?
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Re: Sam Darnold going forward

Postby Kmani6 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:05 pm

Jigga94 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:41 pm
I get the thought that a QB drafted to NYJ is probably doomed. At minimum, they will have to fight to produce. And the Jets building the team before throwing a QB into the fire would be better for said QB. But that isn't going to happen for a lot of reasons. I can get behind them trading down if they get a haul because they need so much. They could get a few 1sts for #2 and pick a QB a little later in the first... But why not just go for the best QB available at 2?
A good point about a very reasonable third option in trading what is likely going to be a highly valuable 2nd overall pick for a package of many more to fill a lot of holes. Douglas honestly did a good job this past year with drafting and also maximizing return on the Adams deal, so maybe the Jets could pull this off.
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