What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

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Prison_Mike
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What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Prison_Mike » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:33 am

This could probably fall under the category of Team Advice, but I'm also curious about what you all do in your leagues with juggernaut/borderline-unbeatable teams?

League 1 in my signature - (12tm | PPR | 1QB) - there's a team in my league that went undefeated this year, averaged 43 points more than the next highest scoring team, and beat me by 30 in the playoffs while accidentally starting an inactive player (Zeke). And the team doesn't appear to have any weaknesses for the next several years. Some of this dominance comes from a few lopsided trades, and obviously just some solid drafting/team management

Some of you probably ARE these teams, but I'm asking from the perspective of someone who's facing a team like that.

I know things change fast in the NFL, but it kinda makes the season(s) feel pointless because you know you have no shot at a title. And I say that as a pretty solid team (a top 3 roster in the league this year before injuries, but still didn't matter)

Wait it out? Blow your team up? Suggest an empire league? lol - Do y'all have teams like this in your leagues? What do you do?

EDIT: some have asked to see the team from my league - I'll list it below:

(12tm | Half-PPR | 1QB)
Start: 1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 3FLX
QB: Rodgers, Herbert, Winston
RB: Kamara, Cook, Zeke, A.Jones, J.Robinson J.Williams, Gallman, Scott, Edwards
WR: Thomas, Metcalf, Diggs, Sutton, P.Williams, Fitz, S.Miller, Duvernay
TE: Waller, Goedert, Schulz, Albert O.

Only has a 4th in 2021 and doesn't have a 1st in 2022, but I don't think it really matters with this team lol
Last edited by Prison_Mike on Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Team 1:
12-team | Half PPR | 1QB
Start: 1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/3FLX
QB: Dak, Hurts, Bridgewater
RB: Saquon, Sanders, Hines, Pollard, Penny, Coleman
WR: Godwin, DJM, OBJ, Kirk, Mooney, MJJ, Patrick, Watkins, Meyers, Tyrell
TE: Jonnu, Herndon, Kmet, I.Thomas
2021 Picks: 2.06, 4.09

Team 2:
12-Team | PPR | 1QB
Start: 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/2FLX/DST/K
QB: Dak, Big Ben, Garropolo, Cam
RB: Zeke, Sanders, Dobbins, J.Robinson, White, D-Will, Bell, Justice
WR: Hopkins, Keenan, Boyd, DJM, Lamb, Mooney, AB, T.Johnson
TE: Waller, Hock, Jarwin, Herndon, Oliver

Team 3:
12-team | SuperFlex | Tiered PPR - (TEs = 1.25ppr, WRs = 0.75, RBs = 0.25)
Start: 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/4FLEX/1SF
QB: Jackson, Wilson, Winston, Tyrod
RB: Sanders, Montgomery, Mack, Evans, Gallman, Ingram, McKinnon
WR: Thomas, OBJ, Kupp, Lockett, Gallup, Kirk, S.Miller, J.Brown, Reynolds, Tyrell, Conley, Quez
TE: Fant, Ertz, Kmet, Njoku, Akins, I.Thomas
2021 Rookie Picks: 1.07, 4.09

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby ThunderTung » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:35 am

Salary cap lol. You don't want to punish good team management, but you also want to keep parity. However one guy getting lucky and building an unbeatable roster isn't fun for anyone else. Gotta find that happy medium
12 man IDP 0.5 ppr
Picks(2021):1.01,1.04,2.01,2.05,2.07
QB(1): Hurts
RB(2): Sanders/Harris
WR(2): Edelman/Lamb
TE(1): Goedert
FLEX(2): Hardman/Kirk
K: Jake Elliot
DL(2): Ngakoue/Hicks
LB(2): Hicks/J. Smith
DB(2) Devin McCourty/Mathieu
FLEX: Murray

Bench:
QB: Mayfield/Foles
RB: Barber/JJ Taylor/Burkhead/Ollison
WR: S. Miller/Sims/Campbell/Robinson/ KJ Hill/Meyers
TE: Gronk/Sternberger/Asiasi/Keene
DL: Dex. Lawrence/Allen
LB: Chubb/Barrett/Whitehead/Bentley/Vigil/Jones
DB: Gilmore/Sorenson

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Pac_Eddy » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:43 am

In your specific league, you have to ride it out. Build your team as best as you can, take your chances even if the odds are not in your favor. Try not to "gang up" on that guy, start making agreements to not trade with him, etc. That gets toxic real quick. As you mention, things can change quickly.

I'm in one Empire league. It's pretty fun. This is our 10th season I think. I don't think the previous year champion has been in the finals the next season even once. No team has been a huge juggernaut either.

Post that guy's team. I'm interested in how dominant he is.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Prison_Mike » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:43 am

ThunderTung wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:35 am
Salary cap lol. You don't want to punish good team management, but you also want to keep parity. However one guy getting lucky and building an unbeatable roster isn't fun for anyone else. Gotta find that happy medium
Salary cap is a good idea I hadn't considered; Would probably difficult to institute before a startup though right?

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:48 am

Wait it out. It's normal to see stacked teams become vulnerable within 3 years. A lot changes quickly on top of the random nature of football games and injuries.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby ThunderTung » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:49 am

Prison_Mike wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:43 am
ThunderTung wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:35 am
Salary cap lol. You don't want to punish good team management, but you also want to keep parity. However one guy getting lucky and building an unbeatable roster isn't fun for anyone else. Gotta find that happy medium
Salary cap is a good idea I hadn't considered; Would probably difficult to institute before a startup though right?
Our league agreed to no salary cap initially to see if it was necessary and right off the bat it was haha. We instituted it, but because rosters were already set we made the cap larger than designed initially and have slowly lowered it each season so the 2 mega teams didn't have to completely blow up their rosters and could slowly sell off their more expensive assets.

Its worked well for us, The aforementioned juggernauts have competed every year still, but we have had no repeat champions as of yet
12 man IDP 0.5 ppr
Picks(2021):1.01,1.04,2.01,2.05,2.07
QB(1): Hurts
RB(2): Sanders/Harris
WR(2): Edelman/Lamb
TE(1): Goedert
FLEX(2): Hardman/Kirk
K: Jake Elliot
DL(2): Ngakoue/Hicks
LB(2): Hicks/J. Smith
DB(2) Devin McCourty/Mathieu
FLEX: Murray

Bench:
QB: Mayfield/Foles
RB: Barber/JJ Taylor/Burkhead/Ollison
WR: S. Miller/Sims/Campbell/Robinson/ KJ Hill/Meyers
TE: Gronk/Sternberger/Asiasi/Keene
DL: Dex. Lawrence/Allen
LB: Chubb/Barrett/Whitehead/Bentley/Vigil/Jones
DB: Gilmore/Sorenson

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby CGW » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:50 am

Its dynasty, this happens. We had a team built like this a few years ago. He finished undefeated and won the league easily twice. Fast forward 2 years later (he got 2nd in 2018, 5th 2019, and 3rd/4th this year), and his squad barely squeaked into the playoffs. The NFL changes fast. I know you see it everywhere, the advice to sell high... But it's really hard to sell studs high before they fall off when you are a dominant team. Bell, Gurley, Gordon, OBJ, AB, MT, the list goes on forever.

My biggest mistake was trying to compete that 1st year he won it. I got beat by 75 in the semi finals. My team was ok, but aging. I should have started selling sooner...I had zero chance those 2 years. The second year, I got smarter and sold all of my aging players and all of my RBs. I missed the playoffs this year due to brutal injury luck, but finished 2nd in scoring. I have a super young team, so now it could be my turn to have that true dynasty.

Sometimes, the rebuilding phase is just as much fun as being a dominant team. Know how to truly assess your team. You say you are 3rd, but are you a true competitor? If not, keep making smart moves to improve. His team will fall. Injuries, trades, crazy people (ab, mt), etc will happen.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Prison_Mike » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:53 am

Pac_Eddy wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:43 am
In your specific league, you have to ride it out. Build your team as best as you can, take your chances even if the odds are not in your favor. Try not to "gang up" on that guy, start making agreements to not trade with him, etc. That gets toxic real quick. As you mention, things can change quickly.

I'm in one Empire league. It's pretty fun. This is our 10th season I think. I don't think the previous year champion has been in the finals the next season even once. No team has been a huge juggernaut either.

Post that guy's team. I'm interested in how dominant he is.
Haha definitely won't gang up on him, we've got a good group despite being (mostly) reddit strangers. I actually made a trade with him that I think benefitted us both equally while also hopefully weakening his long-term outlook - Maybe that's a way to rush the process lol. (I traded him Zeke & a late 2nd for Miles Sanders + AJB + a late 1st at the beginning of the season)

I think imposing an empire rule might be the only thing we could do at this point, and it does sound fun. ThunderTung had the good idea of a salary cap, but I don't know how we'd go about instituting that with teams already intact.

I'll edit the original post with his team

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby bjd5211 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:56 am

Nothing. Just keep playing your game and building your team, they will eventually regress or have the breaks go against them and give way to another top team. That's just the life cycle of a typical league, with maybe a couple owners who are just better than everyone else and are usually in the playoff mix every year.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby CGW » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:59 am

I really dont think adding a salary cap would be that easy to add mid league. Adding an empire rule and starting over could be an option. It still rewards the guy for dominating, but allows a reset when he does. Maybe say going forward, if anyone wins back to back it'll pay out the pot (like some of the safeleagues) and start over.

It would need to be unanimous for me to make any significant change like that.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Prison_Mike » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:02 am

CGW wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:50 am
Its dynasty, this happens. We had a team built like this a few years ago. He finished undefeated and won the league easily twice. Fast forward 2 years later (he got 2nd in 2018, 5th 2019, and 3rd/4th this year), and his squad barely squeaked into the playoffs. The NFL changes fast. I know you see it everywhere, the advice to sell high... But it's really hard to sell studs high before they fall off when you are a dominant team. Bell, Gurley, Gordon, OBJ, AB, MT, the list goes on forever.

My biggest mistake was trying to compete that 1st year he won it. I got beat by 75 in the semi finals. My team was ok, but aging. I should have started selling sooner...I had zero chance those 2 years. The second year, I got smarter and sold all of my aging players and all of my RBs. I missed the playoffs this year due to brutal injury luck, but finished 2nd in scoring. I have a super young team, so now it could be my turn to have that true dynasty.

Sometimes, the rebuilding phase is just as much fun as being a dominant team. Know how to truly assess your team. You say you are 3rd, but are you a true competitor? If not, keep making smart moves to improve. His team will fall. Injuries, trades, crazy people (ab, mt), etc will happen.
Appreciate the feedback, good to see how it's played out for others.

I think I am, I just lost 3 of my top 5 guys to IR this season - Saquon, OBJ, Dak (also was missing Sanders & Mostert for a stretch).
The commissioners (he's one of them) pay for a league evaluation at the beginning of every year where a podcast (RateMyLeague) grades each team. They ranked me 3rd in 2019 and 2nd this year - (just mentioning to show an unbiased view of my team compared to the league)

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Prison_Mike » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:13 am

CGW wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:59 am
I really dont think adding a salary cap would be that easy to add mid league. Adding an empire rule and starting over could be an option. It still rewards the guy for dominating, but allows a reset when he does. Maybe say going forward, if anyone wins back to back it'll pay out the pot (like some of the safeleagues) and start over.

It would need to be unanimous for me to make any significant change like that.
Agree about the salary cap.

Good point that it would need to be unanimous, I'm not sure if it would be or not. There has been one team each of the first two seasons that sold everything for 1sts, so I'd imagine those teams would feel they've wasted the past 2 years if we did a reset too soon. Might have to be a reset only after a 3-peat

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby hoos89 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:23 am

Also those teams will often fall off faster than you expect. The top team in league 2 in my sig had peak Gurley, Hunt and Mixon plus Nuk, Kelce, TY Hilton, Golladay. Still a strong team (added JRob and Waller in the last year or two) but not really a death star squad anymore. Finished 11-2, 2nd in points and lost to me in the semis.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
2020 Runner-up
Rodgers, Tannehill, Wentz
Taylor, Jacobs, Ekeler, D. Harris, Gaskin, Conner, Michel, McKinnon, Ahmed, Love
AJB, DJM, Aiyuk, Claypool, Sutton, Slayton, MVS, Agholor, J. Gordon
Andrews, Herndon
IR(3):
Taxi(4): Tua, G. Davis, Bowden
2021 Picks: 1.02, 1.05, 1.11, 3.02, 3.11, 4.11, 5.11

Team 3: 12 Team PPR, 6 pt Pass TD - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Tannehill, Tua, Bridgewater, Mariota, Eason
Barkley, CEH, Ito, J. Jackson, Bowden, Homer, Love, Guice
J. Jefferson, Metcalf, McLaurin, Thielen, Jeudy, Cooks, Berrios, Byrd, Foster, Hansen, Harmon, C. Johnson, T. Johnson
Kelce, Eifert, Herndon
2021 Picks: 1.04, 1.07, 1.08, 2.09, 3.11, 4.04

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby DLF3000 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:00 am

Cameron Giles wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:48 am
Wait it out. It's normal to see stacked teams become vulnerable within 3 years. A lot changes quickly on top of the random nature of football games and injuries.
Exactly, this is perfect. It's so hard to stay stacked once you get there - one year does not make a dynasty and things change quickly in the NFL. Like the "goliaths," you just gotta focus on your team.
10 Team Dynasty PPR, TE Premium (1.5 PPR), 6 pt/pass TD, 1pt/25 yds pass, 1pt/5 carries, 1pt/10yds rush/rec
1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX (R/W/T) 1DST 1TMK | 21 Active Roster, 4 Taxi (*), 3 IR/Out (+) | est. '07 | SB x3: 2018 League Champs!

QB - P Mahomes | D Prescott+
RB - C Carson | A Ekeler | A Jones | R Mostert+ | B Snell | J Wilson | G Edwards | D Dallas ®* | A McFarland ®* | R Penny | L Perine ®
WR - D Hopkins | K Allen | K Golladay | G Davis ® | An Brown | D Slayton | J Jeudy ® | D Mims ®* | L Shenault ®* | C Johnson ®
TE - T Kelce | M Andrews
DST: Ravens | TMK: Ravens | 2021 - 3,3,4,4

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Shankopotamus » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:43 am

Pac_Eddy wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:43 am
In your specific league, you have to ride it out. Build your team as best as you can, take your chances even if the odds are not in your favor. Try not to "gang up" on that guy, start making agreements to not trade with him, etc. That gets toxic real quick. As you mention, things can change quickly.

I'm in one Empire league. It's pretty fun. This is our 10th season I think. I don't think the previous year champion has been in the finals the next season even once. No team has been a huge juggernaut either.

Post that guy's team. I'm interested in how dominant he is.
The guy in our league with an unbeatable roster just got spanked in the semi-finals. His defense didn't show up and he was missing Kittle.

You just gotta sack up and build a comparable roster.
12 Team Super-Flex Dynasty (2019 & 2020 Runner-Up) :wall:
1 QB, 3 RB, 4 WR, Flex, SF, 2 TE, IDP

QB- Jared Goff, Justin Herbert, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Andy Dalton, Jordan Love
RB- Aaron Jones, Nick Chubb, Cam Akers, Phillip Lindsey, James White, Kerryon Johnson, Gus Edwards, A.J. Dillon, Jamychal Hasty, Salvon Ahmed, Adrian Peterson
WR- Mike Evans, DJ Moore, Allen Robinson, Robert Woods, DK Metcalf, Hollywood Brown, Marvin Jones, Dante Pettis, Marquez Callaway
TE-Mark Andrews, Noah Fant, Hayden Hurst, Jace Sternberger, Donald Parham
DL-Chris Jones, Deforest Buckner, Jonathon Allen, Akeim Hicks, Montez Sweat
LB Zach Cunningham, Jayon Brown, Rashaan Evans, Devin White, Devin Bush, Troy Reeder
DB-John Johnson, Adrian Phillips, Taylor Rapp, Josh Jones, Jeremy Chinn, Ronnie Harrison
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