What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
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Prison_Mike
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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Prison_Mike » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:54 am

Shankopotamus wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:43 am
Pac_Eddy wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:43 am
In your specific league, you have to ride it out. Build your team as best as you can, take your chances even if the odds are not in your favor. Try not to "gang up" on that guy, start making agreements to not trade with him, etc. That gets toxic real quick. As you mention, things can change quickly.

I'm in one Empire league. It's pretty fun. This is our 10th season I think. I don't think the previous year champion has been in the finals the next season even once. No team has been a huge juggernaut either.

Post that guy's team. I'm interested in how dominant he is.
The guy in our league with an unbeatable roster just got spanked in the semi-finals. His defense didn't show up and he was missing Kittle.

You just gotta sack up and build a comparable roster.
Haha build a roster that might be able to knock him off on a fluke? Sure. But I think there can realistically only be one roster like that in a 12 team league. I've been trying to trade all season. Few are willing to trade at all and those that are already gave their best assets to the aforementioned team :lol:

I think he has a few advantages in the trade department since he knows some of the owners personally. The trade he made for MT for example was kinda ridiculous (I believe it was Cooper + Cooks for MT - this was when MT was going top 3 in startups)

But you're right, anything can happen and they could lose on any given week

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby ghetto pimp » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:46 am

Things change quickly in dynasty football.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby slaughterrt » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:46 am

Any given Sunday.

No matter how “unbeatable” a team is, injuries happen and players don’t always show up. For example, in one of my 12 team superflex dynasties, we had a team go undefeated until the last week of our regular season. That team is and was a powerhouse, easily out scoring the second most points (mine) by almost 300 points overall (and almost 700 points between him and the 3rd highest scorer). But guess what. A team with a losing record came in and handily beat him the last week of the season. Said team gets a 1st round bye, and I take him down in the semi-finals (2nd time in two years that I have knocked him out of the playoffs).

No team is unbeatable, and rosters that look great today might look much worse in a year. Players get hurt. Players get traded. Players get benched for rookies. NFL = Not For Long.

Don’t let that affect how you build your team.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby mild » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:56 am

CGW wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:50 am
Sometimes, the rebuilding phase is just as much fun as being a dominant team. Know how to truly assess your team. You say you are 3rd, but are you a true competitor? If not, keep making smart moves to improve.
The above is the most important thing, and you seem to be aware of it. Be realistic about your team, and reset your timeline and expectations accordingly. The juggernaut you posted is good, but I can see it becoming weaker in a year or two. The problem is, he's also outplaying you - by making better trades (for him) and scooping pieces like Waller off the waiver wire. Take it as a challenge.

I was an also-ran when I took over my Superflex team 3 years ago - it was an average team, with some ageing parts and a couple nice pieces. It would have no part in competing against the two mega-juggernauts in my league, though - and I ascertained that quite quickly and clearly when coming into the league. So, I punted the first year with an eye to being young and frisky in year 2, and having it turn on full blast in year 3. I reset my competitive timeline... and it really freakin' worked. Here was my process:

1. Sold all skill guys over 28/29, and in some cases younger guys I wasn't sure would age well or that I believed in.
2. Completely punted RB, and chased QB's and WR's first. For example, I gambled that the new Chiefs QB would probably be good if Andy was trading Smith, so I sent Joe Mixon for him. (I'd also been blown away by his Broncos game) That one worked out.
3. Snapped up guys that were injured and discounted with great athletic or production profiles off of contenders for win-now pieces. That year it was Hunter Henry, if you were doing it this year it would have been Sutton, Saquon, etc. This is a GREAT move if you have an IR, and want to further tank your picks under a PP system.
4. Identified that the 2020 draft was going to be a loaded one, and set about trying to squirrel away as many picks as possible in advance. One trade was made in 2018 with one of the juggernauts! He didn't care, he never thought he would have a pick that was high. Sterling Shephard and a 2018 2nd turned into his 2020 1st. (It ended up being Jeudy at 1.08 - ouch! but the process was sound, 2020 was loaded - I am hearing similar rumblings about 2023)
5. Constantly traded to get picks in the top 20. You can definitely hit on 3rds as well, but significant data shows that the hit rate drops off precipitously in rookie drafts after the first two rounds. When throwing in picks in deals, stuff them with "stocking filler" - as many 3rds-or-later as you like. Don't part with a 2nd or a 1st unless you're in a deal for (what you think is) a stud.

Once you have a tight core of QB and WR (the two positions that age the best and are most identifiable on return gains early) - this allows you to go fishing, drag-net style, for anything and everything that might help at RB. This is the added benefit of having multiple studs at a position like WR - you can use the rest of your bench to speculate, and you just never know what you might find off the waiver wire. In 2018 I found Austin Ekeler. Your juggernaut found Waller in 2019. This years guy was James Robinson, and unfortunately one of my juggernauts got him because he's a Jags fan and had the inside word. If you can hit one of these, then you are that much closer to becoming a juggernaut yourself, or extending your window as one.

Most importantly, just enjoy the ride, and enjoy playing the long game. Try and rinse the owners that he's been trading with - get all their future picks. It's worth considering, that if they're going to make bad/lopsided trades anyway, then you should try and make sure it's with you - both to prevent more with the juggernaut, and to tap that value source for yourself.

Also, never be afraid to cash out on a young-ish stud in this scenario. More often than not, when you're selling at the top of their market - the return really works out if you're not "winning now". Your AJB trade is a perfect example.

Final note - the two juggernauts in my team are still alive and kicking, but have started to seriously age. The 1.08 Jeudy one missed the playoffs this year for the first time in 4 years, and the other (James Robinson guy!) had his team fall apart in the semis. The juggernauts don't last forever. Plan for the future, and time your rise... and pray you hit on some picks. Good luck!

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby lukkynumber13 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:07 pm

Honestly that roster isn't as "forever unbeatable" as you made it seem haha, it's a very nice roster with lots of studs but the future is unknown for everyone.



QB: Rodgers, Herbert, Winston - Rodgers isn't getting younger, and Herbert could regress next year (Mayfield? Wentz?)

RB: Kamara, Cook, Zeke, A.Jones, J.Robinson J.Williams, Gallman, Scott, Edwards - Stud group absolutely, but Zeke looks like he's lost a step or 2, Cook is coming off of MONSTER workload seasons and has very likely peaked, Aaron Jones is not going to be the same worldbeater if he leaves GB next year, Kamara is definitely great yes, James Robinson could fade into the background next year. But yes, lots of studs here.

WR: Thomas, Metcalf, Diggs, Sutton, P.Williams, Fitz, S.Miller, Duvernay - Honestly this group isn't THAT much to shrink in fear of. Thomas is sneaky "old", Sutton is coming off of injury with a crappy QB situation and doesn't have multi-year proven production, Metcalf and Diggs are great yes, and then we're down to Preston Williams and Larry Fitzgerald? Strong core but not crazy

TE: Waller, Goedert, Schultz, Albert O. - Not gonna lie, yes this is a great group.

Overall, YES this team has a great roster, but he isn't any better than the best teams(s) in most of our leagues.
BOTH TEAMS BELOW ARE 1QB

TEAM A - 12 teams (19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Brees, Tua, Wentz
COOK/JACOBS/MIXON, Dobbins, Swift, Hunt, Singletary, Bell, B Hill, Wilkins
NUK/HILL/GOLLADAY/K ALLEN, Diontae J, Hollywood, Ruggs, Pittman, Hilton, G Davis, Snead
KITTLE, Waller, Akins, H Bryant
-
Not listing my IDP, but they matter as much as offense in this league. Joey Bosa, Buckner, Sweat, and Cam Jordan are my main studs.
///
///
TEAM B - 32 teams, double copy - TEs get 1.5x bump in scoring
LAMAR, Cousins, Rivers, J Love
SAQUON/MIXON/CARSON, Dobbins, Lindsay, Mattison, Ingram, D Freeman, Clement
NUK/K ALLEN/JULIO/AROB, Evans, Thielen, DJ Moore, Lamb, Boyd, Coutee, Alshon
KITTLE/L Thomas, Ertz, Reed
Danielle Hunter, Aaron Donald, and Chris Jones are the cornerstones of my IDP squad.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby SteelLake » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:47 pm

I'm going to take a different route than everyone... I've been playing in super competitive league since 2009... I've never seen a roster that good.... really surprised its common to all of you.

But, yea, advice stays the same, values change so quick, just look at ADP from 3 years ago. He will eventually fall
Drew Christopher Brees Football Squad
Dynasty League (10 team)
2013-Present (7 years)
2017 Champion
5 playoff appearances
Record: 66-44

Antonio Brown Football Squad
Contract League (12 teams)
2015-Present (6 years)
6 Playoff appearances
Record: 56-28

Dar's Stars
Redraft league (8 teams)
2019-Present (2 years)
2 Playoff appearances
Record: 23-5

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby steelman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:44 pm

Injuries and down years can take a monster team and cause them to miss the playoffs entirely. That stuff happens all the time.

Don't change the league based on one roster. Just build your team and your time will come

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby steelman » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:46 pm

When I look at that team, I feel like mine is just as good or better, but I lost in the first round of the playoffs.

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby burntfire » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:27 pm

Exactly what everyone else is saying. The unquestioned best team in the league is starting to get older and should be vulnerable in the next year or two especially after making some uncharacteristic trades to win this year by completely selling off his depth.

QB: MAHOMES, Arob, Love
RB: Kamara, CMC (didn't matter for him), Mixon, Gordon III
WR: Adamas, Hopkins, Juju, Golladay, Ruggs III
TE: Andrews, Fant

He also traded away Hockenson, Zeke, & Sutton.

Now this is in a 14 man league... yah it's rough to face him.
14 Team Super Flex, 1 PPR
QB, 3WR, 2RB, 1TE, 1 Flex, 1 SFlex, 3 IR

QB: Matt Ryan, Sam Darnold, Mitchell Trubisky, Jake Luton
WR: Chris Godwin, A.J Brown, D.K. Metcalf, Jerry Jeudy, Will Fuller, Jalen Reagor, Allen Lazard, Travis Fulgham
RB: Kareem Hunt, Josh Jacobs, Ronald Jones, Marlon Mack, Joshua Kelley, Boston Scott, Deejay Dallas
TE: Robert Tonyan, Dissley, David Njoku, Jace Sternberger, Drew Sample, Gerald Everett

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Yarnith » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:56 am

How many years has this guy been dominate? My primary league roster is below. I have been a top 4 roster about 70% of the time in my 26 year old league. I play for the Championship this weekend, was the 2018 champ as well. In 2019 I finished dead last. My starters of these last 3 years have all been the same save Goff in 2018 and Allen in 2019/2020. There is a lot of randomness that happens so I donno if you have to do anything honestly. My key has been I draft better and trade smarter than most of my league.

Our league has worked on parity and as much as I have tried to get a Salary cap system in place no one wants it but me. Instead our league designates 3 players as "restricted free agents" per roster. The are available to be drafted. If one gets drafted you get a compensatory pick at the end of that round. So if all 3 went in the first you would get 1.13, 1.14, 1.15 in our 12 team draft. Obviously it is highly unlikely you have 3 1st round talents out there. You get to sign 1 of those FA's at the end of each round if any are not drafted, back to your roster for free. This goes on for rounds 1-3.

Its a unique system and it works ok. Much like salary cap systems it forces owners to expose either vets they would rather keep or developmental players.
12 team standard, 1QB, 1RB, 1WR, 2WR/TE, 1flex


QB: J. Allen, J. Goff, D. Haskins

RB: A. Kamara, J. Taylor, CE,H, Ty Johnson, B. Love, D. Guice, R. Calais, D. Washington

WR: A.J. Brown, C. Ridley, J. Smith-Schuster, A. Cooper, R. Woods, D. Slayton, P. Williams, H. Ruggs, D. Mims, T. Smith, KJ Hamler

TE: G. Kittle, H. Henry

2021 1.12 , 3.8, 3.12, 4.9, 4.12

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Orenthal Shames
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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Orenthal Shames » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:09 am

In most leagues, the cream rises to the top. The best owners seperate themselves over time. In my experience, there's usually a few strong contenders, a few perennially bad teams and the other 50% lies somewhere in the middle.
16 team league
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex (RB/WR/TE)
26 man rosters - full point ppr
2015, 17, 18, 19, 20 Champs

QB: Tannehill, Brees
RB: Kamara, Sanders
WR: Hill, DK, KA, Julio, Cooks
TE: Kelce, Kittle

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Prison_Mike
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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby Prison_Mike » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:36 am

Yarnith wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:56 am
How many years has this guy been dominate? My primary league roster is below. I have been a top 4 roster about 70% of the time in my 26 year old league. I play for the Championship this weekend, was the 2018 champ as well. In 2019 I finished dead last. My starters of these last 3 years have all been the same save Goff in 2018 and Allen in 2019/2020. There is a lot of randomness that happens so I donno if you have to do anything honestly. My key has been I draft better and trade smarter than most of my league.

Our league has worked on parity and as much as I have tried to get a Salary cap system in place no one wants it but me. Instead our league designates 3 players as "restricted free agents" per roster. The are available to be drafted. If one gets drafted you get a compensatory pick at the end of that round. So if all 3 went in the first you would get 1.13, 1.14, 1.15 in our 12 team draft. Obviously it is highly unlikely you have 3 1st round talents out there. You get to sign 1 of those FA's at the end of each round if any are not drafted, back to your roster for free. This goes on for rounds 1-3.

Its a unique system and it works ok. Much like salary cap systems it forces owners to expose either vets they would rather keep or developmental players.
That RFA idea is really interesting, sounds like a lot of fun
Not long, I'm asking this question preemptively. This year was his first year winning but also first year he had this team together.

He won the championship game by 100 points

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby zoster80 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:25 am

Although I may be considered the team to beat in my league since I just won the title for 3rd time out of 4 years(Zo Nasty below). I have not been the Goliath team because I’ve been able to win with patchwork RB cores. Gurley was huge in 2017, but since then I haven’t had a solid guy.

I just took down our Goliath...
L Jackson
Cook, A Jones, Zeke, Fournette, M Davis, mattison, Vaughn, Pollard
Hill, Terry, ARob, D Parker, Gallup, Shenault
Waller, Tonyan, Everett

He was running through the season averaging wins by 45 points. Was putting up sick numbers in the playoffs. I ended up beating him 176-131.

It’s any given Sunday, I’ve had other leagues that I’ve been top seed for years in a row and get knocked out my first game. It takes a lot of luck besides a good team.

Don’t worry his luck will run out. Undefeated is pretty amazing, with bye weeks and injuries, he must have had a lot of luck, between matchups, lack of injuries, avoiding covid....sometimes it just happens.

Don’t get discouraged and keep managing your team to hit a window and you’ll get your shot to win
Champ '20,’18,’17 11th year
Zo Nasty -12 Teams, PPR, 26 players - Keep 20
Start QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, TE, Flex, K, DST

QB: Rodgers Herbert
RB: Ekeler, D Johnson, M Gaskins, Gurley, Z Moss, T Cohen, Ito Smith, D Evans, Ingram
WR: M. Evans, D. Hopkins, Juju, K Allen, T Johnson, G Davis, Pascal, T Smith
TE: Kelce Fant,Gesicki,
DST: Colts NE
K: Butker

2021 Picks
1.8, 2.12, 3.12, 5.7, 5.8, 5.12, 6.12
______________________________________________
PLP - 12 Teams, PPR, 27 Active roster - Keep 21 -
Start QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, TE, 2 Flex, K, DST

QB: R Wilson Bridgewater,
RB: Zeke, CEH, M Sanders, Hines, Gio, S. Michel L Bell, D Evans, Justice hill, Darrel Williams, T Pollard, B Love, Guice
WR: DJ Moore, Godwin, Metcalf, AJ Brown, Gallup R Cobb, S Miller
TE: Fant , Graham, Jarwin
DST: 49ers, Eagles

2021Picks
2.1,3.11,6.11
2022Picks
1,2,3,4,5,6

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hockeyBjj
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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby hockeyBjj » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:32 am

My team two in sig in one such goliath. Have won 4 years in a row now. Points for 49 points higher than 2nd best team. 2nd best team only 25 points higher than last place team. Did lose two games at end of season so not undefeated, and those two losses could have just as easily come week 15 or 16

Other's in league chat have started calling it my money printer. Worried it'll fold the league. But not like I got this team just by fleecing someone. Made fair trades at time that in hindsight are killer for me (bought Dalvin Cook for two late 1sts when he was hurt, CMC for Mike Evans and a 1st. Hit on Kamara as a rookie in the startup as well as Derrick Henry when he was buried behind Dion Lewis. Bought Diggs when Thielend was getting the greater target share)

Last offseason I made some stupid offers, that thankfully got turned down. I offered Diggs for the 1.03, as well as Kelce for 1.01 for CEH. Think I offered Derrick Henry for 1.01 as well, worried about his workload and aging quick even for an rb. If those offers had been accepted, the dynasty would be badly hamstrung.
Team 1- 10 team ppr, 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2Flx, 1D, 1K
2019: 6th place :wall:
Finishes: 6th, 6th, 1st, 5th, 6th
QB: Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson
RB: Saquan Barkley, Dalvin Cook, Mark Ingram,JK Dobbins, Hyde, Gore
WR: Hopkins, Mike Evans, Juju Smith, T Boyd, Jarvis Landry, R Gage, G Tate, D Slayton, B Perriman, T Williams, A Miller, Beasley, Bourne, AB clown
TE: George Kittle, Higbee, Akins, Reed, K Smith
D/K: Patriots, Vikings, Titans, Jax, McManus Den
Taxi- D Henderson, A Mattison, B Snell
picks- 2021- 3,4 2022-1,2,4,5

team 2- 12 team ppr, 1QB, 3WR, 2RB, 1TE, 1WR/RB/TE, 1 RB/TE
4 peat Champs 8-)
QB: Wilson, Cousins, Haskins
RB: CMC, D Cook, Kamara, D Henry, M Davis, Mattison, T Cohen, M Brown, R Armstead,
WR:Hopkins, Arob, Diggs, Golloday, Fuller, Edelman, M Williams, Perriman, Lazard, Dorsett, Higgins,
TE: Kelce, Andrews, Dissly, Akins
picks- 2021- 4,5 2022 1, 3,4,5

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Re: What to do against the Goliaths of your league?

Postby DLF3000 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:51 am

hockeyBjj wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:32 am
Last offseason I made some stupid offers, that thankfully got turned down. I offered Diggs for the 1.03, as well as Kelce for 1.01 for CEH. Think I offered Derrick Henry for 1.01 as well, worried about his workload and aging quick even for an rb. If those offers had been accepted, the dynasty would be badly hamstrung.
Talked about injury luck being huge in another thread, but trade luck is huge too - especially the trades you don't make.

A trade offer or actual trade that looked one way suddenly becomes awesome/terrible. Especially due to new or sudden injuries since.

I almost traded for Barkley and then he was out for the year the very next weekend. I imagine there are more than a few CMC owners/targeters who experienced the same thing. Could go on and on with the stud trades that almost or actually did destroy your season - or dynasty!
10 Team Dynasty PPR, TE Premium (1.5 PPR), 6 pt/pass TD, 1pt/25 yds pass, 1pt/5 carries, 1pt/10yds rush/rec
1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX (R/W/T) 1DST 1TMK | 21 Active Roster, 4 Taxi (*), 3 IR/Out (+) | est. '07 | SB x3: 2018 League Champs!

QB - P Mahomes | D Prescott+
RB - C Carson | A Ekeler | A Jones | R Mostert+ | B Snell | J Wilson | G Edwards | D Dallas ®* | A McFarland ®* | R Penny | L Perine ®
WR - D Hopkins | K Allen | K Golladay | G Davis ® | An Brown | D Slayton | J Jeudy ® | D Mims ®* | L Shenault ®* | C Johnson ®
TE - T Kelce | M Andrews
DST: Ravens | TMK: Ravens | 2021 - 3,3,4,4


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