The Kyle "Is not the" Pitts Thread

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remedy29
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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby remedy29 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:09 pm

OhCruelestRanter wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:39 am
Ice wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:12 am
Pullo Vision wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:30 pm -The biggest knock on Pitts would probably be his ability at the point of attack: His 63.7 run-block grade ranked 128th among 366 qualified tight ends last season.

-Pitts lined up in the slot or out wide on 42% of his snaps during his three-year career at Florida.

Certainly sounds like a receiving specialist.


https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... kyle-pitts
Precisely why he is a top 2 receiving threat in this fantasy draft IMO. His production in space is outstanding and NFL teams are not stupid.

No way they put a square peg in a round hole so to speak with this player.
I like Pitts, I’m optimistic that he’s a future superstar, but remember when Seattle traded a 29 year old former All Pro center and a first round pick for Jimmy Graham, who was one of the best receiving TEs ever through his first 5 years, and then asked Graham to block and gave him 265 targets over 3 years?

NFL teams do dumb things all. the. time. Nobody should be surprised if any of these guys are misused, especially Pitts.
I do not think teams do dumb things all the time is a fair comparison regarding Graham. He did average nearly 100 targets per 16 games during that stretch and by his age 31 season his decline was in full swing....probably started year 1 in Seattle.

If Pitts has 3 or 4 years of 130 targets, the 2021 1.01 will be the cheapest you'll ever get him.

How many years does Pitts have until his age 29 decline?
Last edited by remedy29 on Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:15 pm

remedy29 wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:09 pm If Pitts has 3 or 4 years of 130 targets, the 2021 1.01 will be the cheapest you'll ever get him.

How many years does Pitts have until his age 29 decline?
He won't even be 21 until midseason.

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:14 pm

Graham also had a potentially career-threatening patellar injury in 2015 at 29 years old, during his first year with the Seahawks. I remember people talking at the time questioning if he'd even ever play again, and if so he likely wouldn't be nearly as effective. I believe Victor Cruz had a similar injury the year prior and didn't even play the next season.

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby Ice » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:18 pm

Every few years a player like Pitts show up on the scene to make FF exciting
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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby ArrylT » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:44 pm

I keep seeing Waller mentioned in both this and the other TE thread and it kept bugging me, until I realized why.

Darren Waller was not drafted (in fantasy) as a TE. Nor was he labeled one in the NFL either. He was a WR.

Mizelle ADP on Waller 2015
43 21 Waller, Darren (BAL, WR)® (R43) 206.17 206.00 177 238 18 May: 215.83, Jun: 186.40, Jul: 209.60, Aug: 218.00

IMHO You cannot use Waller as an example as to why you should/should not draft Pitts because Waller was not a TE in rookie drafts. Kelce & Kittle sure. Waller no.

He did not make the switch until 2016. Furthermore Waller missed parts of 2016 & 2017 due to substance abuse. There is literally no way anyone could have predicted prior to 2019 that Waller had a chance of being anything at TE. If you stashed him - kudos to you. But he wasnt in the large majority of mine

TE premium leagues in 2018? Nope.
16 team DLF HOF? Nope.
14 team start 2 TE? Nope.
14 team SF TE prem? Nope.
16 team ST TE prem 30 man roster? Nope.

Madadamus in GridIron 14 team league Yes.

So if your name is not Madadamus shush. :lol: :lol:

Mizelle ADP on Waller 2019
May: 223.50, Jun: 220.50, Jul: 228.83, Aug: 173.50, Sep: 141.00, Oct: 88.75, Nov: 83.75, Dec: 85.25

People picked up Waller as a lottery ticket like they did Arian Foster, Tom Brady, Antonio Brown (he certainly was not drafted in any of the the leagues I was in in 2011) and other unicorns. It is simply not good process to use exceptions as examples as to why you should/should not draft Pitts, because exceptions are out of the norm and unpredictable.

Pitts vs. WRs sure. Pitts vs. hoping to get a Kittle or Kelce later in a draft sure. Try to buy a TE at a discount sure. But Waller is not a case study unless you're projecting Pitts to change positions, miss a few years, and then switch teams & end up in a situation where nothing at WR was blocking him from realizing his full target volume. :wink:
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby Jigga94 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:12 am

The thing with Waller being a converted WR only makes the point that TE are unpredictable, even stronger

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby dynastyninja » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:51 am

Can't wait for the "told you so" comments after a year or two. As if any of us actually knew what we were talking about. This bleep is largely random.

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:23 am

Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:12 am The thing with Waller being a converted WR only makes the point that TE are unpredictable, even stronger
Exactly. Waller's success enforces the point that TE success is random and isn't always about raw talent, like RB and sometimes WR.

Do I think Pitts will be really good? Yes. I dont know how long it takes to get there, but I can see it happening.

Would I be shocked if he underachieves? No.

There's so much that goes into TE beyond catching passes. Hell, even Vernon Davis, who is considered an all-time TE prospect and went 6th overall, was mostly an underachiever. He only had a few good years.

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby Ice » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:18 am

Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:12 am The thing with Waller being a converted WR only makes the point that TE are unpredictable, even stronger
I use the Waller comparison very differently. Like Kelce, Waller happens to be a TE today with the skill set of a WR. Pitts happens to be a TE with the Skill set of a WR. His ability jumps off the page when studied.

I like Waller today as a TE no matter how he was classed early in his career. Pitts' skill set is Waller's on steroids. Pitts athleticism also looks superior to Kelce. Not saying he will be that good today but we draft on potential and production in Dynasty. Not only does Pitts have incredible measurable traits he has incredible production to go with those traits.

My take is anyone getting hung up in his TE designation as a weakness is making a grave mistake. He is a very unique weapon with generational traits which is why he will go top 6 in this NFL draft IMO.

The fact he is classed today as a TE is a bonus. If he is re-classed as a WR someday, enjoy the TE ride while it lasted then enjoy the WR ride.

He has massive stud potential and that is why he should be drafted early round 1 in many fantasy formats and in round 1 in all dynasty leagues.
The Clock is Running and there are no Timeouts

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby Jigga94 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:43 am

Ice wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:18 am
Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:12 am The thing with Waller being a converted WR only makes the point that TE are unpredictable, even stronger
I use the Waller comparison very differently. Like Kelce, Waller happens to be a TE today with the skill set of a WR. Pitts happens to be a TE with the Skill set of a WR. His ability jumps off the page when studied.

I like Waller today as a TE no matter how he was classed early in his career. Pitts' skill set is Waller's on steroids. Pitts athleticism also looks superior to Kelce. Not saying he will be that good today but we draft on potential and production in Dynasty. Not only does Pitts have incredible measurable traits he has incredible production to go with those traits.

My take is anyone getting hung up in his TE designation as a weakness is making a grave mistake. He is a very unique weapon with generational traits which is why he will go top 6 in this NFL draft IMO.

The fact he is classed today as a TE is a bonus. If he is re-classed as a WR someday, enjoy the TE ride while it lasted then enjoy the WR ride.

He has massive stud potential and that is why he should be drafted early round 1 in many fantasy formats and in round 1 in all dynasty leagues.
Yeah, I agree he has a great profile and stud potential. I get that he's a receiving TE and not a "traditional TE". Still though, we've seen numerous Receiving TE fail. Waller also had a 3-4 year period where he could've been had for free, which is the point. That's where spending an early 1st on Pitts doesn't make it much of a value play for me. I'd rather trade the early 1st

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby jenkins.math » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:14 am

Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:43 am
Ice wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:18 am
Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:12 am The thing with Waller being a converted WR only makes the point that TE are unpredictable, even stronger
I use the Waller comparison very differently. Like Kelce, Waller happens to be a TE today with the skill set of a WR. Pitts happens to be a TE with the Skill set of a WR. His ability jumps off the page when studied.

I like Waller today as a TE no matter how he was classed early in his career. Pitts' skill set is Waller's on steroids. Pitts athleticism also looks superior to Kelce. Not saying he will be that good today but we draft on potential and production in Dynasty. Not only does Pitts have incredible measurable traits he has incredible production to go with those traits.

My take is anyone getting hung up in his TE designation as a weakness is making a grave mistake. He is a very unique weapon with generational traits which is why he will go top 6 in this NFL draft IMO.

The fact he is classed today as a TE is a bonus. If he is re-classed as a WR someday, enjoy the TE ride while it lasted then enjoy the WR ride.

He has massive stud potential and that is why he should be drafted early round 1 in many fantasy formats and in round 1 in all dynasty leagues.
Yeah, I agree he has a great profile and stud potential. I get that he's a receiving TE and not a "traditional TE". Still though, we've seen numerous Receiving TE fail. Waller also had a 3-4 year period where he could've been had for free, which is the point. That's where spending an early 1st on Pitts doesn't make it much of a value play for me. I'd rather trade the early 1st
Does Pitts have major substance abuse issues that haven't been shed to light yet? That played a major role in Waller's career trajectory. I mean he even had to sit out and entire year due to substance abuse.

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby Jigga94 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:21 am

jenkins.math wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:14 am
Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:43 am
Ice wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:18 am

I use the Waller comparison very differently. Like Kelce, Waller happens to be a TE today with the skill set of a WR. Pitts happens to be a TE with the Skill set of a WR. His ability jumps off the page when studied.

I like Waller today as a TE no matter how he was classed early in his career. Pitts' skill set is Waller's on steroids. Pitts athleticism also looks superior to Kelce. Not saying he will be that good today but we draft on potential and production in Dynasty. Not only does Pitts have incredible measurable traits he has incredible production to go with those traits.

My take is anyone getting hung up in his TE designation as a weakness is making a grave mistake. He is a very unique weapon with generational traits which is why he will go top 6 in this NFL draft IMO.

The fact he is classed today as a TE is a bonus. If he is re-classed as a WR someday, enjoy the TE ride while it lasted then enjoy the WR ride.

He has massive stud potential and that is why he should be drafted early round 1 in many fantasy formats and in round 1 in all dynasty leagues.
Yeah, I agree he has a great profile and stud potential. I get that he's a receiving TE and not a "traditional TE". Still though, we've seen numerous Receiving TE fail. Waller also had a 3-4 year period where he could've been had for free, which is the point. That's where spending an early 1st on Pitts doesn't make it much of a value play for me. I'd rather trade the early 1st
Does Pitts have major substance abuse issues that haven't been shed to light yet? That played a major role in Waller's career trajectory. I mean he even had to sit out and entire year due to substance abuse.
That's not the point... The highest ranked/drafted TE at draft time haven't been the ones who have succeeded. We have a couple of late round fliers and a former drug abuser WR as the top 3 TE... it's a crapshoot. If Pitts hits, I won't be surprised, it's just not likely.

Again, float the early 1st out there before you draft Pitts and see what you can get. That would be my goal. I just saw a startup where Pitts was the 1st TE taken. C'mon now...

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby jenkins.math » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:06 am

Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:21 am
jenkins.math wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:14 am
Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:43 am

Yeah, I agree he has a great profile and stud potential. I get that he's a receiving TE and not a "traditional TE". Still though, we've seen numerous Receiving TE fail. Waller also had a 3-4 year period where he could've been had for free, which is the point. That's where spending an early 1st on Pitts doesn't make it much of a value play for me. I'd rather trade the early 1st
Does Pitts have major substance abuse issues that haven't been shed to light yet? That played a major role in Waller's career trajectory. I mean he even had to sit out and entire year due to substance abuse.
That's not the point... The highest ranked/drafted TE at draft time haven't been the ones who have succeeded. We have a couple of late round fliers and a former drug abuser WR as the top 3 TE... it's a crapshoot. If Pitts hits, I won't be surprised, it's just not likely.

Again, float the early 1st out there before you draft Pitts and see what you can get. That would be my goal. I just saw a startup where Pitts was the 1st TE taken. C'mon now...
I agree with the bottom portion. If you are about to take Pitts (and are contending) then see if you can trade that pick straight up for one of the big 3 TEs, or even Hock/Fant/Andrews +.

I just disagree entirely on the premise of fading Pitts simply because he is a TE. Especially taking into account this draft class which I see as being 5 players that I really like. I'm of the viewpoint that Pitts is a once a decade type of prospect and when you have someone like that I'm willing to take the additional risk in certain circumstances.

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby briank » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:33 am

Ice wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:18 am
Jigga94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:12 am The thing with Waller being a converted WR only makes the point that TE are unpredictable, even stronger
I use the Waller comparison very differently. Like Kelce, Waller happens to be a TE today with the skill set of a WR. Pitts happens to be a TE with the Skill set of a WR. His ability jumps off the page when studied.

I like Waller today as a TE no matter how he was classed early in his career. Pitts' skill set is Waller's on steroids. Pitts athleticism also looks superior to Kelce. Not saying he will be that good today but we draft on potential and production in Dynasty. Not only does Pitts have incredible measurable traits he has incredible production to go with those traits.

My take is anyone getting hung up in his TE designation as a weakness is making a grave mistake. He is a very unique weapon with generational traits which is why he will go top 6 in this NFL draft IMO.

The fact he is classed today as a TE is a bonus. If he is re-classed as a WR someday, enjoy the TE ride while it lasted then enjoy the WR ride.

He has massive stud potential and that is why he should be drafted early round 1 in many fantasy formats and in round 1 in all dynasty leagues.
Waller on steroids? I'm not sure Pitts' skill set is all that different from Waller. They are very similar athletically. I think it's a good comp regardless of what position Waller played in college.
12 tm tiered PPR Superflex start 9
QB Allen/Tubisky/Lock
RB Mixon/Harris/Etienne
WR DJ Moore
TE Kelce/Irv
2022 1.06/1.09
2023 3x 1st

12 tm tiered PPR Superflex start 10
QB Mahomes/Watson/Ryan
RB CMC/Zeke/Mixon/Sanders
WR Evans/Godwin/Robinson/Golladay/Thielen/Lockett/Fuller
TE Kittle/Waller/L. Thomas

12 tm tiered PPR Superflex start 10
QB Mahomes/Murray/Brady
RB CMC
WR Adams/Hill/Diggs/AJ Brown/Aiyuk/Woods/R. Moore
TE Kelce/Kittle/Njoku
2x 2023 1sts

12 tm PPR 1.5 for TE Superflex start 2 TE start 12
QB Herbert/Tua/Lawrence/Fields
RB Harris/Etienne
WR Jefferson/Deebo/Lamb/DSmith/Sutton/Juedy/Kirk/E. Moore/R. Moore
TE Kittle/Pitts/Waller/Fant/Njoku
2022 1.01/1.12/2.02

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Re: Kyle Pitts

Postby wickerkat1212 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:38 pm

Mock drafts going

Image

FYI—currently going between 4-7
D3:
QB—Allen RB—Kamara, Jacobs, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Harrison, TILLMAN, Marshall, Jefferson TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington KRAFT PK—Prater DEF—BAL

D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC RB—BIJAN, Conner, Gainwell, Gainwell, HULL, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin, Murray WR—Jefferson, Hill, Diggs, Adams, Allen, TILLMAN, Boyd, Woods, HUTCHINSON, DOUGLAS TE—Kelce, Kmet, Schultz, Parham PK—Butker DEF—PIT

Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, Howell RB—BIJAN, Kamara, Allgeier, Singletary, Mostert, BRob, Warren, HULL, GRAY WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, Myers, Hardman, Reynolds BOUTTE TE—Kmet, Smith, Hurst, Ertz, KRAFT PK—Elliott DEF—PHI

Superflex 2:
QB: Goff, Cousins, Wentz, White; RB: BIJAN, BRob, ZWhite, Hines, TDP, McLaughlin WR: Higgins, JSN, JWilliams, DJM, RMoore, DOWNS, Atwell, TILLMAN, BOUTTE, SMoore, PCampbell, DPJ, ATP, CJONES TE: Trautman, Ferguson, KRAFT, Hooper


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