The Kyle "Is not the" Pitts Thread

[Ice]

Not a fan of TE premium leagues but it’s pretty obvious position scarcity is a driving force in trading a high upside TE like Hockenson for a player like DK

Sounds easy on the surface but these type trades are roster dependent, plus league size and owner makeup.

There is not a bigger DK fan on this site than me but WR1’s are easier to come by in Dynasty in a premium format.

Not hard to understand even though I rate DK higher in any format personally.

Hockenson could hit 80 receptions going forward. He is solid and like it or not; Goff is good in play action.

Regarding Pitts, I like his upside more than Hockenson or Fant.

[Sriracha]

Regarding Pitts, I like his upside more than Hockenson or Fant.

Hockenson, yes.
Fant, no.

Side note: TJ Hockenson's career up to this point has been less impressive than Eric Ebron's first 2 years in the league. He might join the elite TEs, but it's far from a forgone conclusion.

[StripesOfKC]

Regarding Pitts, I like his upside more than Hockenson or Fant.

Hockenson, yes.
Fant, no.

Side note: TJ Hockenson's career up to this point has been less impressive than Eric Ebron's first 2 years in the league. He might join the elite TEs, but it's far from a forgone conclusion.

Lmao

Hockenson>>Fant

It was true at Iowa and it's true now

[Sriracha]

Lmao

Hockenson>>Fant

It was true at Iowa and it's true now

Debatable:

Iowa played Fant while Hock redshirted his freshman year.
Fant was more productive during their Sophomore seasons.
Hock was more productive during their Junior year.

So Fant was better than Hock 2 out of 3 years in college.

Fant is a better athlete, has demonstrated more playmaking ability and higher efficiency with worse QB play.
Had a demonstrably better rookie season, and effectively played 13 games to Hock's 16 this year and finished with 5 less receptions and 50 less yards.

[OhCruelestRanter]

Regarding Pitts, I like his upside more than Hockenson or Fant.

Hockenson, yes.
Fant, no.

Side note: TJ Hockenson's career up to this point has been less impressive than Eric Ebron's first 2 years in the league. He might join the elite TEs, but it's far from a forgone conclusion.

Lmao

Hockenson>>Fant

It was true at Iowa and it's true now

Hockenson has outscored Fant by like half a point per game in PPR, Fant has outscored Hockenson by like 5 total points for their careers, and Fant has played in a demonstrably worse offensive context.

But yeah let’s use two “greater than signs” because there’s clearly a huge gap between these guys.

[briank]

Hockenson, yes.
Fant, no.

Side note: TJ Hockenson's career up to this point has been less impressive than Eric Ebron's first 2 years in the league. He might join the elite TEs, but it's far from a forgone conclusion.

Lmao

Hockenson>>Fant

It was true at Iowa and it's true now

Hockenson has outscored Fant by like half a point per game in PPR, Fant has outscored Hockenson by like 5 total points for their careers, and Fant has played in a demonstrably worse offensive context.

But yeah let’s use two “greater than signs” because there’s clearly a huge gap between these guys.

More importantly, Fant has more fantasy upside because of his athleticism.

[OhCruelestRanter]

Lmao

Hockenson>>Fant

It was true at Iowa and it's true now

Hockenson has outscored Fant by like half a point per game in PPR, Fant has outscored Hockenson by like 5 total points for their careers, and Fant has played in a demonstrably worse offensive context.

But yeah let’s use two “greater than signs” because there’s clearly a huge gap between these guys.

More importantly, Fant has more fantasy upside because of his athleticism.

Yeah, and Hockenson probably has more TD upside because of his size. I think it’s reasonable to prefer either but the idea that one of these guys has been much better than the other is a bad one.

I gotta go get some Fant.

[StripesOfKC]

Hockenson has outscored Fant by like half a point per game in PPR, Fant has outscored Hockenson by like 5 total points for their careers, and Fant has played in a demonstrably worse offensive context.

But yeah let’s use two “greater than signs” because there’s clearly a huge gap between these guys.

More importantly, Fant has more fantasy upside because of his athleticism.

Yeah, and Hockenson probably has more TD upside because of his size. I think it’s reasonable to prefer either but the idea that one of these guys has been much better than the other is a bad one.

I gotta go get some Fant.

Dude was calling Hockenson worse than Eric Ebron and yet saying he's better than Fant is the hot take

I've got no issues if you prefer Drew Lock's third option though

[Cameron Giles]

Hockenson and Fant more or less seem the same fantasy wise. Hockenson is supposed to be a better football player because of his value as a blocker. Right now one guy has Jared Goff at QB and the other has Drew Lock. Hockenson may breakout next year with Marvin Jones gone and Golladay's future in the air.

[Sriracha]

Hockenson has outscored Fant by like half a point per game in PPR, Fant has outscored Hockenson by like 5 total points for their careers, and Fant has played in a demonstrably worse offensive context.

But yeah let’s use two “greater than signs” because there’s clearly a huge gap between these guys.

More importantly, Fant has more fantasy upside because of his athleticism.

Yeah, and Hockenson probably has more TD upside because of his size. I think it’s reasonable to prefer either but the idea that one of these guys has been much better than the other is a bad one.

I gotta go get some Fant.

Fant is 6'4 249, Hock is 6'5 251

I believe his higher TD totals in 2020 is the result of Stafford leading a more efficient offense that scores more TDs.

DEN finished 30th in the NFL in total touchdowns in 2019, 27th in 2020. DET finished 23rd in 2019, and 15th in 2020. Fant scored 3 TDs to Hock's 2 in 2019; and 3 to Hock's 6 in 2020.

[Sriracha]

Dude was calling Hockenson worse than Eric Ebron and yet saying he's better than Fant is the hot take

I've got no issues if you prefer Drew Lock's third option though

In year 2, Ebron had a higher Y/R (11.4 vs 10.8); Higher catch % (67.1% vs 66.3%); Y/Tgt (7.7 vs 7.2); and averaged only 7 YP/G less while competing with significantly more target competition (Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate, Theo Riddick vs Marvin Jones, Danny Amendola).

I didn't bring him up to say that Ebron is better than Hock; just that he was similarly "impressive" as Hock 2 years into his career. Hock's ceiling is still considerably higher.. I'm just cautioning that there is a very real possibility his progress stalls below the Kittle, Kelce, Waller tier of TE's because he has yet to show efficiency at any level in the NFL (something Kittle, Kelce, Gronk, Andrews all showed by year 2).

[OhCruelestRanter]

More importantly, Fant has more fantasy upside because of his athleticism.

Yeah, and Hockenson probably has more TD upside because of his size. I think it’s reasonable to prefer either but the idea that one of these guys has been much better than the other is a bad one.

I gotta go get some Fant.

Dude was calling Hockenson worse than Eric Ebron and yet saying he's better than Fant is the hot take

I've got no issues if you prefer Drew Lock's third option though

... did you miss the part where I mentioned that Fant played in worse offense? Do you need me to explain what “context” means? If you’re going to try to end a post on a snarky one-liner, I’d suggest constructing a post that actually has some substance before that line.

I’m going to introduce what I’m sure is a revolutionary concept for you: situations... change. So when I say that Fant has had similar success to Hockenson despite a worse situation, that implies that Fant’s situation can, and I know this is going to blow your mind, improve.

Fant will probably eventually play with a QB that isn’t Drew Lock. Sutton is entering the final year of his contract.

As for Ebron, the point is that neither of these guys should be treated like a sure thing. I like both players, but there’s risk here.

[OhCruelestRanter]

Dude was calling Hockenson worse than Eric Ebron and yet saying he's better than Fant is the hot take

I've got no issues if you prefer Drew Lock's third option though

In year 2, Ebron had a higher Y/R (11.4 vs 10.8); Higher catch % (67.1% vs 66.3%); Y/Tgt (7.7 vs 7.2); and averaged only 7 YP/G less while competing with significantly more target competition (Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate, Theo Riddick vs Marvin Jones, Danny Amendola).

I didn't bring him up to say that Ebron is better than Hock; just that he was similarly "impressive" as Hock 2 years into his career. Hock's ceiling is still considerably higher.. I'm just cautioning that there is a very real possibility his progress stalls below the Kittle, Kelce, Waller tier of TE's because he has yet to show efficiency at any level in the NFL (something Kittle, Kelce, Gronk, Andrews all showed by year 2).

Counterpoint here would be that Ebron’s target efficiency was better because he played with those guys who demanded more coverage.

[Sriracha]

Counterpoint here would be that Ebron’s target efficiency was better because he played with those guys who demanded more coverage.

Fair counterpoint, and I'd have a much easier time buying it if he got significantly more volume.

[Bronco Billy]

Interesting off topic discussion on Hockenson vs Fant. Looking at advanced analytics, the difference between Stafford throwing to Hockenson and Lock throwing to Fant is not near the difference in advantage to Hockenson that one would think.

A couple of stats that did jump out as being very different - Hockenson was lined up much more as a traditional TE than Fant, Hockenson ran a lot more routes but was not targeted more than Fant in a meaningful way, and Hockenson’s drop rate was noticeably higher. Other than that, the efficiency stats are remarkably similar - including QB rating when throwing to each.