Mid season rule change?

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Prison_Mike
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby Prison_Mike » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:03 am

M-Dub wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:50 am
I agree that it sets a bad precedent to change rules midseason, but I think the real question is: was this an actual “rule” or just an oversight on the part of the commish? If he just forgot to check a box when he was setting up the scoring parameters, then I think a valid case could be made to fix it, even midseason. Just because an issue didn’t present itself until now doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be remedied immediately. Of course that depends on your commish being willing to cop to his mistake. Has he stated that he intentionally left out return TDs? If so, does he have any reasonable explanation as to why? Does the league constitution specifically state that return TDs aren’t counted? I can’t really blame this owner, or anyone really, for not poring through the scoring settings with a fine toothed comb and not catching this earlier.

That said, it would definitely be bad form for this owner to destroy his team in a tantrum. If he actually refuses to set a lineup by Sunday morning, the commish needs to remove his abilities and set a lineup on his behalf based on some objective outside source (FantasyPros, ESPN, etc.) to avoid further damage to league integrity.

Just out of curiosity, when JJAW recovered a fumble in the end zone for a TD in week 6, did he get credit for that TD in your league? If so, then I think this owner has an even better case for fixing the scoring. If not, you guys need to give your scoring a serious once-over this offseason. MFL settings can be kinda convoluted and it’s not uncommon to overlook something when you’re setting up a league.
Thanks for your response, all valid points. I'm not sure whether or not it was an oversight. When it was brought up this morning, the commish did defend it by saying that A) It's the current rule and he can't change rules just for one owner; B) He plays in other leagues that don't award points for return TDs (not really relevant IMO); C) he would have to retroactively change every return TD to ensure that it didn't effect the outcome of a contest in our league

Yep. Again, a large part of the reason I voted "No" was because of the tantrum. What's to stop someone from throwing one next time they get a bad break that doesn't go their way (although I understand this is a very unique circumstance)

Interesting you bring that up, I was curious of the exact same thing earlier. I just went back and looked. Yes, JJAW was awarded points for his fumble recovery TD - (is that technically considered a rushing TD?)

Side Note: I also went back and watched the JJAW play, and it annoyed me how much he celebrated lol

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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby M-Dub » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:50 am

A fumble recovery TD is a separate setting from a rushing TD, at least in MFL. So the commish would’ve had to proactively set that up as an eligible scoring play. At the very least, I would ask him why that TD counts but Patterson’s doesn’t.

From the sound of things, either your commish intentionally neglected to award points for return
TDs, which doesn’t make any logical sense in light of the JJAW score, or he simply forgot to set it up that way and is too proud/stubborn to admit to his mistake, which is a red flag for any commish. Either way, it sounds like he’s sticking to his guns, so I’m not sure there’s much that can be done.

I think the Patterson owner has a valid complaint, tbh. A player in his starting lineup helped his real life NFL team by scoring a TD and not only is the owner not getting credit for it, it’s actually costing him a win. The commish’s claim that he’d have to go back and change other return TDs doesn’t hold up. MFL would do that automatically once the setting was changed/fixed. I strongly suspect it wouldn’t actually change any other outcomes anyway, since it’s pretty rare for fantasy relevant players to routinely return kicks.
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby ThunderTung » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:56 am

Prison_Mike wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:35 am
Jigga94 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:24 am
Also, has this never been discussed before? I mean maybe it hasn't affected an outcome and not many returners are fantasy relevant, but I'd expect in 3 years someone would've noticed and said something. This isn't a typical rule. Again, not grounds for changing the rule midseason. Just odd to me
Nope, never been brought up which is part of his argument. Saying that no one was aware of the rule which is the only reason it hasn’t been discussed until now
even that is largely irrelevant to me. Like no one plays a guy because he might take one to the house on a KR lol. The odds of it happening are so low, its not something you can really try to predict
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K: Jake Elliot
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby Prison_Mike » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:01 am

M-Dub wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:50 am
A fumble recovery TD is a separate setting from a rushing TD, at least in MFL. So the commish would’ve had to proactively set that up as an eligible scoring play. At the very least, I would ask him why that TD counts but Patterson’s doesn’t.

From the sound of things, either your commish intentionally neglected to award points for return
TDs, which doesn’t make any logical sense in light of the JJAW score, or he simply forgot to set it up that way and is too proud/stubborn to admit to his mistake, which is a red flag for any commish. Either way, it sounds like he’s sticking to his guns, so I’m not sure there’s much that can be done.

I think the Patterson owner has a valid complaint, tbh. A player in his starting lineup helped his real life NFL team by scoring a TD and not only is the owner not getting credit for it, it’s actually costing him a win. The commish’s claim that he’d have to go back and change other return TDs doesn’t hold up. MFL would do that automatically once the setting was changed/fixed. I strongly suspect it wouldn’t actually change any other outcomes anyway, since it’s pretty rare for fantasy relevant players to routinely return kicks.
One issue is that this on Sleeper, not MFL. So I'm not so sure that he proactively set it as an eligible scoring play, I would assume it was just the default. I'm not sure, I'll have to check. Definitely wouldn't have much affect on other outcomes, it's a rare circumstance all the way around

And yep, I agree that his complaint is valid. And I can empathize and possibly even be open to a mid-season rule change. But I'm not a fan of threatening the league to get your way, which is what happened.

- Complainer calls for change
- Commish tells him unfortunately we rules for one person
- Complainer threatens to not set lineup for rest of season
- Commish says okay let's put it to a vote

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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby realmacaroni » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:09 am

Def seems worthy of consideration and likely to pass a change by vote...

But this is absolutely the wrong time. That’s off season stuff. Things always need adjusting, league needs to be flexible. But the unhappy owner needs to now that now is not the time and thems the breaks
Last edited by realmacaroni on Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby realmacaroni » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:11 am

Oh shot i just read the update. Owner gets warned and given one chance to set lineup properly. If he fails he gets bounced. Make it clear to league that the team lineup will be set by auto or by commish based on max point projections for remainder of season, as well as retroactively for the game the lame owner duffs
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WR: M Thomas - T Lockett - D Johnson - J Crowder - D Parker - V Jefferson - D Duvernay - D Westbrook - J Hurd - I Coulter - F Swain
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby Prison_Mike » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:58 pm

He's now announced that he's going to be leaving the league after this season. Didn't feel like something that was worth leaving the league over to me, but to each their own

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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby failblazer » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:08 pm

Prison_Mike wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:58 pm
He's now announced that he's going to be leaving the league after this season. Didn't feel like something that was worth leaving the league over to me, but to each their own
You're probably better off.
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby d3sp3rad0 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:35 pm

"they’re only calling for said rule change because it would benefit them"



This is a major key right here. Always a red flag :nono:
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:10 pm

Prison_Mike wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:58 pm
He's now announced that he's going to be leaving the league after this season. Didn't feel like something that was worth leaving the league over to me, but to each their own
Good Riddance, but you'll probably have to keep an eye on his trade activity.

You guys should still change the scoring to count return TDs starting next season though

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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby ThunderTung » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:34 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:10 pm
Prison_Mike wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:58 pm
He's now announced that he's going to be leaving the league after this season. Didn't feel like something that was worth leaving the league over to me, but to each their own
Good Riddance, but you'll probably have to keep an eye on his trade activity.

You guys should still change the scoring to count return TDs starting next season though
Agreed, any disgruntled owners that announce they're leaving after the season can be locked out imo. They won't bother setting their lineups anyway unless they're legitimate contenders.

At the very least lock his activity from trading at all, and just make sure he doesn't drop any significant players
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FLEX(2): Hardman/Kirk
K: Jake Elliot
DL(2): Ngakoue/Hicks
LB(2): Hicks/J. Smith
DB(2) Devin McCourty/Mathieu
FLEX: Murray

Bench:
QB: Mayfield/Foles
RB: Barber/JJ Taylor/Burkhead/Ollison
WR: S. Miller/Sims/Campbell/Robinson/ KJ Hill/Meyers
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby failblazer » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:38 am

ThunderTung wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:34 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:10 pm
Prison_Mike wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:58 pm
He's now announced that he's going to be leaving the league after this season. Didn't feel like something that was worth leaving the league over to me, but to each their own
Good Riddance, but you'll probably have to keep an eye on his trade activity.

You guys should still change the scoring to count return TDs starting next season though
Agreed, any disgruntled owners that announce they're leaving after the season can be locked out imo. They won't bother setting their lineups anyway unless they're legitimate contenders.

At the very least lock his activity from trading at all, and just make sure he doesn't drop any significant players
I honestly think, as long as there is not conflict of interest involved, that I would remove them now and have the commish run their team to the end of the season. Otherwise you are constantly second guessing every move they make and having to keep a constant eye so that someone doesn't try to take advantage of a disgruntled owner.
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D. Waller, M. Gesicki, D. Njoku, D. Knox, C. Kmet

C. Young, S. Hubbard
D. Leonard, D. Greenlaw, T. Reeder, N. Kwiakowski, M. Kiser IR, C. MoselyOPT, N. GerryIR
J. Simmons, A. Amos

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D. Hopkins, D. Adams, C. Kupp, M. Jones, M. Valdes-Scantling, A. Isabella, J. Gordon
Z. Ertz, A. Hooper, J. Sternberger, D. Keene, O. HowardIR

D. Lawrence, J. Simmons, K. Chiasson
R. Smith, Z. Cunningham, T. Reeder, T. Adams, B. Okereke, L.Wilson, C. MoselyOPT
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby ThunderTung » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:19 am

failblazer wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:38 am
ThunderTung wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:34 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:10 pm


Good Riddance, but you'll probably have to keep an eye on his trade activity.

You guys should still change the scoring to count return TDs starting next season though
Agreed, any disgruntled owners that announce they're leaving after the season can be locked out imo. They won't bother setting their lineups anyway unless they're legitimate contenders.

At the very least lock his activity from trading at all, and just make sure he doesn't drop any significant players
I honestly think, as long as there is not conflict of interest involved, that I would remove them now and have the commish run their team to the end of the season. Otherwise you are constantly second guessing every move they make and having to keep a constant eye so that someone doesn't try to take advantage of a disgruntled owner.
yea, even if that means refunding his league fee. Not worth the hassle of reversing trades, or his drops/tanking
12 man IDP 0.5 ppr
Picks(2021):1.01,1.04,2.01,2.05,2.07
QB(1): Hurts
RB(2): Sanders/Harris
WR(2): Edelman/Lamb
TE(1): Goedert
FLEX(2): Hardman/Kirk
K: Jake Elliot
DL(2): Ngakoue/Hicks
LB(2): Hicks/J. Smith
DB(2) Devin McCourty/Mathieu
FLEX: Murray

Bench:
QB: Mayfield/Foles
RB: Barber/JJ Taylor/Burkhead/Ollison
WR: S. Miller/Sims/Campbell/Robinson/ KJ Hill/Meyers
TE: Gronk/Sternberger/Asiasi/Keene
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby M-Dub » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:44 am

The more I think about this, the more I think the Patterson owner is in the right. A player in his starting lineup scored a TD, and the system didn’t count it. He’s not asking to change a rule. He’s asking for his score to be recorded accurately. In what universe do return TDs not count?? It sounds like he probably could’ve been a little more diplomatic in arguing his point, but if this happened to me, I’d bail too. And if I was the owner who “won” because of this error, I’d feel dirty af and would be on his side. Seems to me like the commish just screwed up and refuses to own it.

Changing it in the offseason seems almost worse somehow. It’s basically an acknowledgement that he was right, but the league just decided to stick it to him anyway.
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Re: Mid season rule change?

Postby Pac_Eddy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:54 am

In my opinion as commish of a league, you can't change scoring in the middle of a season. If you did, do you go back and re-score all previous games? Allow standings changes? Let players reverse trades they made when they had a win-loss record at the time, and now it changes? Even if that's very unlikely, you have to act like it's not or set a very bad precedent.

If your league wants that scoring, and I think they would, you make that correction in the off season. I've been on the bad side of a scoring error like this, and while it sucks, you have to move on as it's a mistake and not done to you deliberately.

This reminds me of some leagues not having stat corrections turned on. Each Thursday morning or so, the stats organization updates filter to the league manager software programs, and seemingly small stat changes happen. One owner will be waiting for a tackle to turn into a sack, or a QB fumble to turn into a RB fumble, or a guy goes from 99 yards to 100 and they meet bonus scoring. They'll be upset that their score didn't update, and find that this has never happened in that league, and demand it start the current week so they get their win.
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