Dynasty League Football Forum

Krypto_King wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:38 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQl4aBf ... hannel=NFL
this is really your king? All that footage is doing is making me bet the Chargers and their RBs for DFS. I'd be selling if you can get your initial investment back.

Wait so running through a huge hole and doing exactly what you are supposed to do is bad? Ceh had an amazing hole on his 32 yard scamper, im not gonna fault him for that. CEH also played against a bad run defense for his best game of the season and im not going to fault him for that. Im so confused by this argument, everything in that tape is good. Then Swift jumping over the line men for the score or bowling 6 yards through guys for the score is also bad? I thought everyone was worried about how he would run between the tackles? He also had a great gain up the middle for the first. Also to the people who are saying "Well it was a bad defense?" He did what he was supposed to do versus a bad defense, that is one of the worst arguments out there. He also wasnt even utilized in the passing game which is his strength. Man people really see what they want to see.

FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:14 am

Krypto_King wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:38 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQl4aBf ... hannel=NFL
this is really your king? All that footage is doing is making me bet the Chargers and their RBs for DFS. I'd be selling if you can get your initial investment back.

The way he finished that long run was weak. Massive holes. Nice cut back on the last run. No backsides containment at all. Jags have looked bad against the run all year. Still think Swift will be a decent player.

Yeah agreed on that long run...just weird. That was pretty much all O-Line/poor defensive positioning...he did almost nothing there and left yards on the table. The 3 runs starting at ~1:10 are pretty impressive though.

Patsfan86 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:57 am

Krypto_King wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:38 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQl4aBf ... hannel=NFL
this is really your king? All that footage is doing is making me bet the Chargers and their RBs for DFS. I'd be selling if you can get your initial investment back.

Wait so running through a huge hole and doing exactly what you are supposed to do is bad? Ceh had an amazing hole on his 32 yard scamper, im not gonna fault him for that. CEH also played against a bad run defense for his best game of the season and im not going to fault him for that. Im so confused by this argument, everything in that tape is good. Then Swift jumping over the line men for the score or bowling 6 yards through guys for the score is also bad? I thought everyone was worried about how he would run between the tackles? He also had a great gain up the middle for the first. Also to the people who are saying "Well it was a bad defense?" He did what he was supposed to do versus a bad defense, that is one of the worst arguments out there. He also wasnt even utilized in the passing game which is his strength. Man people really see what they want to see.

CEH also had to make a guy miss ~8 yards into that 32 yard run and pretty much juked him out of his shoes without getting caught by the other guys nearby. Had he taken longer to make that move, made too big of a move, given up more speed, or not adjusted his line away from the other defenders after making the move, he likely gets tackled for about a 10 yard gain. Swift not only didn't have to make anyone miss, there was nobody even near him until the end of the run, when he pretty much slowed down and ran into the defender instead of trying to run by him for a possible TD.

In my view CEH created about 20-25 yards on his run versus what was blocked by the line/given by the defense, and Swift created NEGATIVE yards on his run.

hoos89 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:15 am

FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:14 am

Krypto_King wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:38 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQl4aBf ... hannel=NFL
this is really your king? All that footage is doing is making me bet the Chargers and their RBs for DFS. I'd be selling if you can get your initial investment back.

The way he finished that long run was weak. Massive holes. Nice cut back on the last run. No backsides containment at all. Jags have looked bad against the run all year. Still think Swift will be a decent player.

Yeah agreed on that long run...just weird. That was pretty much all O-Line/poor defensive positioning...he did almost nothing there and left yards on the table. The 3 runs starting at ~1:10 are pretty impressive though.

Patsfan86 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:57 am

Krypto_King wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:38 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQl4aBf ... hannel=NFL
this is really your king? All that footage is doing is making me bet the Chargers and their RBs for DFS. I'd be selling if you can get your initial investment back.

Wait so running through a huge hole and doing exactly what you are supposed to do is bad? Ceh had an amazing hole on his 32 yard scamper, im not gonna fault him for that. CEH also played against a bad run defense for his best game of the season and im not going to fault him for that. Im so confused by this argument, everything in that tape is good. Then Swift jumping over the line men for the score or bowling 6 yards through guys for the score is also bad? I thought everyone was worried about how he would run between the tackles? He also had a great gain up the middle for the first. Also to the people who are saying "Well it was a bad defense?" He did what he was supposed to do versus a bad defense, that is one of the worst arguments out there. He also wasnt even utilized in the passing game which is his strength. Man people really see what they want to see.

CEH also had to make a guy miss ~8 yards into that 32 yard run and pretty much juked him out of his shoes without getting caught by the other guys nearby. Had he taken longer to make that move, made too big of a move, not adjusted his line away from those defenders, or given up more speed he likely gets tackled for about a 10 yard gain. Swift not only didn't have to make anyone miss, there was nobody even near him until the end of the run, when he pretty much slowed down and ran into the defender instead of trying to run by him for a possible TD.

In my view CEH created about 20-25 yards on his run versus what was blocked by the line/given by the defense, and Swift created NEGATIVE yards on his run.

You are right, he probably could have gotten more but he chose to get tackled, so what? Its one play that was a 54 yard gain, you dont have to go for the TD every single time. Thats how guys get hurt. Swift then followed "giving up" by being physical and scoring from the 1 by jumping over two guys then scoring from the 6 by powering through a few guys aka being physical again. Being able to score in the redzone is much more important for a coach to see from a RB then trying to score a 70+ yard td, even if its what our fantasy team wants. Dont nitpick the bad but ignore the good. Naysayers of any player always do this then ignore what players are doing well. Swift has caught the ball well when given the opportunity and has ran the ball well when given the opportunity, especially in goal to go situations. If you want to nit pick one play but ignore 116 yards on 14 carries with two TDs then go ahead and do that.

A lot of consternation over one failed finish at the end of a long run. He’s getting used to NFL speed. I expect in the future we won’t see those kinds of finishes, as I suspect he was surprised he got caught so quickly.

That said, Swift isn’t exactly the most elusive back. He has some make-you-miss, but it’s more through subtle cuts at top speed, not shake and bake. I don’t think he’ll necessarily create big runs on his own, but if he has the crease, his strengths are hitting that crease and accelerating to top speed quickly.

As he gains experience he’ll become the primary passing down back as well. Then the value skyrockets.

It’s also really silly to knock a guy for having the vision to see open field on the backside of the play and write it off as poor defense. Good running backs make bad defenses pay for poor discipline, and bad to average ones run directly into their blockers on those.

ManuManu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:51 am It’s also really silly to knock a guy for having the vision to see open field on the backside of the play and write it off as poor defense. Good running backs make bad defenses pay for poor discipline, and bad to average ones run directly into their blockers on those.

Was that even the backside of the play? That hole was right in front of him it looked like that was the direction the play was intended to go. It's not like he cut back or something. Even Trent Richardson would have seen that hole.

Patsfan86 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:34 am
You are right, he probably could have gotten more but he chose to get tackled, so what? Its one play that was a 54 yard gain, you dont have to go for the TD every single time. Thats how guys get hurt. Swift then followed "giving up" by being physical and scoring from the 1 by jumping over two guys then scoring from the 6 by powering through a few guys aka being physical again. Being able to score in the redzone is much more important for a coach to see from a RB then trying to score a 70+ yard td, even if its what our fantasy team wants. Dont nitpick the bad but ignore the good. Naysayers of any player always do this then ignore what players are doing well. Swift has caught the ball well when given the opportunity and has ran the ball well when given the opportunity, especially in goal to go situations. If you want to nit pick one play but ignore 116 yards on 14 carries with two TDs then go ahead and do that.

Guys get hurt by...not slowing down and running directly into a defender in the open field? I don't think it's really nitpicking to say that Swift was worse than expected on that play. Also it's not really fair to say I'm nitpicking that play but ignoring 116 on 14 carries considering that I'm specifically looking at 54 of those 116 yards. 13 for 62 yards and 2 TDs is still good, but it's a bit ridiculous to just dismiss the criticism of his biggest run on the day.

Also...he followed that run up by taking 3 carries inside the 5 to score a TD (including another carry from the 1 where he probably could/should have scored). I also don't really think jumping over the pile is "getting physical"...I think it's really the opposite. There's certainly some things to like from that game, but his carries on that drive are not among them.

hoos89 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:52 am

ManuManu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:51 am It’s also really silly to knock a guy for having the vision to see open field on the backside of the play and write it off as poor defense. Good running backs make bad defenses pay for poor discipline, and bad to average ones run directly into their blockers on those.

Was that even the backside of the play? That hole was right in front of him it looked like that was the direction the play was intended to go. It's not like he cut back or something. Even Trent Richardson would have seen that hole.

Patsfan86 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:34 am
You are right, he probably could have gotten more but he chose to get tackled, so what? Its one play that was a 54 yard gain, you dont have to go for the TD every single time. Thats how guys get hurt. Swift then followed "giving up" by being physical and scoring from the 1 by jumping over two guys then scoring from the 6 by powering through a few guys aka being physical again. Being able to score in the redzone is much more important for a coach to see from a RB then trying to score a 70+ yard td, even if its what our fantasy team wants. Dont nitpick the bad but ignore the good. Naysayers of any player always do this then ignore what players are doing well. Swift has caught the ball well when given the opportunity and has ran the ball well when given the opportunity, especially in goal to go situations. If you want to nit pick one play but ignore 116 yards on 14 carries with two TDs then go ahead and do that.

Guys get hurt by...not slowing down and running directly into a defender in the open field? I don't think it's really nitpicking to say that Swift was worse than expected on that play. Also it's not really fair to say I'm nitpicking that play but ignoring 116 on 14 carries considering that I'm specifically looking at 54 of those 116 yards. 13 for 62 yards and 2 TDs is still good, but it's a bit ridiculous to just dismiss the criticism of his biggest run on the day.


Also...he followed that run up by taking 3 carries inside the 5 to score a TD (including another carry from the 1 where he probably could/should have scored). I also don't really think jumping over the pile is "getting physical"...I think it's really the opposite. There's certainly some things to like from that game, but his carries on that drive are not among them.

Criticizing a massive 54 yard gain is absolutely the definition of nitpicking, it was 54 yards, what you want him to do? Run for 100 yards on one play, then you will be happy? A player should not be criticized at all for running 54 yards. As far as jumping over the pile not being physical, i totally disagree, there is more of a likelihood of harm doing that then there is of running through guys. And the CEH fan is the last guy who should be criticizing swift for taking 3 tries to get in the endzone, at least he gets in the endzone. Take your criticism of swift and apply it to CEH. I like both players, but i also see both having strengths and weaknesses.

What I want him to do is ... not slow down and allow himself to be tackled. He added nothing to that play. And I don't think "getting physical" should be judged by likelihood of getting injured. He went around (or in this case...over) the defense, not through it.

And CEH has gotten hit in the backfield on just about all his goal line attempts while Swift didn't get hit behind the line on any of those. CEH probably scores on at least 1 if not 2 of those inside the 5 carries on that drive, and I doubt Swift is punching one in with JJ Watt in his face at the handoff.

hoos89 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:52 am

ManuManu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:51 am It’s also really silly to knock a guy for having the vision to see open field on the backside of the play and write it off as poor defense. Good running backs make bad defenses pay for poor discipline, and bad to average ones run directly into their blockers on those.

Was that even the backside of the play? That hole was right in front of him it looked like that was the direction the play was intended to go. It's not like he cut back or something. Even Trent Richardson would have seen that hole.

Patsfan86 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:34 am
You are right, he probably could have gotten more but he chose to get tackled, so what? Its one play that was a 54 yard gain, you dont have to go for the TD every single time. Thats how guys get hurt. Swift then followed "giving up" by being physical and scoring from the 1 by jumping over two guys then scoring from the 6 by powering through a few guys aka being physical again. Being able to score in the redzone is much more important for a coach to see from a RB then trying to score a 70+ yard td, even if its what our fantasy team wants. Dont nitpick the bad but ignore the good. Naysayers of any player always do this then ignore what players are doing well. Swift has caught the ball well when given the opportunity and has ran the ball well when given the opportunity, especially in goal to go situations. If you want to nit pick one play but ignore 116 yards on 14 carries with two TDs then go ahead and do that.

Guys get hurt by...not slowing down and running directly into a defender in the open field? I don't think it's really nitpicking to say that Swift was worse than expected on that play. Also it's not really fair to say I'm nitpicking that play but ignoring 116 on 14 carries considering that I'm specifically looking at 54 of those 116 yards. 13 for 62 yards and 2 TDs is still good, but it's a bit ridiculous to just dismiss the criticism of his biggest run on the day.

Also...he followed that run up by taking 3 carries inside the 5 to score a TD (including another carry from the 1 where he probably could/should have scored). I also don't really think jumping over the pile is "getting physical"...I think it's really the opposite. There's certainly some things to like from that game, but his carries on that drive are not among them.

I’m talking about the run at 1:55. I thought people were complaining about that run and the 54-yarder. Maybe I misunderstood.

ManuManu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:47 am
I’m talking about the run at 1:55. I thought people were complaining about that run and the 54-yarder. Maybe I misunderstood.

Nah, the run at 1:55 was impressive to me (as was the 2nd TD and the run where he trucked a guy at the end). To be clear I'm not saying that he didn't impress at all on Sunday. I'm just saying that his day wasn't as impressive as the box score indicates, the criticism of the big run is fair, and we should be careful not to overreact.

ManuManu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:48 am A lot of consternation over one failed finish at the end of a long run. He’s getting used to NFL speed. I expect in the future we won’t see those kinds of finishes, as I suspect he was surprised he got caught so quickly.

That said, Swift isn’t exactly the most elusive back. He has some make-you-miss, but it’s more through subtle cuts at top speed, not shake and bake. I don’t think he’ll necessarily create big runs on his own, but if he has the crease, his strengths are hitting that crease and accelerating to top speed quickly.

As he gains experience he’ll become the primary passing down back as well. Then the value skyrockets.

I don't think so. He's already valued really highly. He's a top 30 startup pick right now. I mean, he could get into the first round next year, but most of the top rookie RB's have most of their upside baked into the cost of acquiring them, from their owners. Swift has top 15 target share already, so he's getting a ton of receiving work.

I think it's fair to nitpick the run which could have been better, but are people really saying sell before seeing more from him? What owners only wanted to see 5 weeks (had a bye) of sub 40% snap rate and sell their rookie rb, is that a joke? I think that's a bad take. Players can get better and learn the nuances of the game regardless of if they're a rookie (hello Miles Sanders last year).

JT has run into his blockers a little bit, he's also gotten caught trying to "out-athletic" players to the edge instead of taking the designed run. CEH has looked phenomenal in my eyes but also needs more TDs. Swift leads all rookie RBs with TDs and more importantly, Patricia is comfortable using him at the goal line (which was a previous knock on Swift). IF you have him be happy, if not and you don't want to buy that's ok too, but telling an owner to sell after 5 weeks where he is averaging 12.2 FPTs per game is crazy. I'm going to break this down further below.

For .5 ppr with my leagues scoring:

[RB 11] CEH - Leads the league in yards from scrimmage, 1 more TD puts him at RB 7
107 - 505 -1 (4.7 YPC)
21 - 177 - 0

84.7 FPTS, 14.1 FPTS Per Game

[RB 16] JT - Still Learning the position, stacked boxes due to Rivers noodle arm somewhat
89 - 367 - 3 (4.1 YPC)
16 - 162 - 0

78.9 FPTS, 13.2 FPTS Per Game

[RB 27] D'Andre Swift - 100 Yard game and 2 TDs as a rookie, first Detroit RB to do that since… Barry Sanders in 1989
26 - 158 - 3 (6.07 YPC), without the 54 yd run still 4.16 YPC
16 - 131 - 1

60.9 FPTS, 12.2 FPTS Per Game

[RB 39] J.K Dobbins - Ravens backfield is sporadic as all hell. Ravens just don't use RBs the way fantasy owners want them to. Is outscoring Ingram by 1.8 total on the year
25 - 154 - 2 (6.16 YPC)
11 - 74 - 0

If anything, I'm worried about Dobbins a little and Akers a lot. Dobbins it's not his fault, the Ravens just like cycling backs and even without Ingram he'll share touches with Gus and LJax (this is coming from a Ravens fan).

As for Akers... I don't know I will admit I never liked him but seriously splitting with Henderson seems best case scenario. Henderson has looked excellent and is very young, so I don't see them just ignoring him completely, I'm not saying sell Akers, maybe he's a hold (only six weeks into a COVID year) but I am concerned.

Mike11 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:18 pm I think it's fair to nitpick the run which could have been better, but are people really saying sell before seeing more from him? What owners only wanted to see 5 weeks (had a bye) of sub 40% snap rate and sell their rookie rb, is that a joke? I think that's a bad take. Players can get better and learn the nuances of the game regardless of if they're a rookie (hello Miles Sanders last year).

JT has run into his blockers a little bit, he's also gotten caught trying to "out-athletic" players to the edge instead of taking the designed run. CEH has looked phenomenal in my eyes but also needs more TDs. Swift leads all rookie RBs with TDs and more importantly, Patricia is comfortable using him at the goal line (which was a previous knock on Swift). IF you have him be happy, if not and you don't want to buy that's ok too, but telling an owner to sell after 5 weeks where he is averaging 12.2 FPTs per game is crazy.
If anything, I'm worried about Dobbins a little and Akers a lot. Dobbins it's not his fault, the Ravens just like cycling backs and even without Ingram he'll share touches with Gus and LJax (this is coming from a Ravens fan).

As for Akers... I don't know I will admit I never liked him but seriously splitting with Henderson seems best case scenario. Henderson has looked excellent and is very young, so I don't see them just ignoring him completely, I'm not saying sell Akers, maybe he's a hold (only six weeks into a COVID year) but I am concerned.

Yes, this comment about selling him is what got me on my defending Swift rant, Hoos89 did not say this at all to his credit, Ceh and Swift have things they need to work on, but i seriously see both being top 8 backs next year. No one on these forums should be telling people to get out on Swift after this game, that makes no sense. Unfortunately some lurker is going to see that and may take that advice instead of having the patience.

CEH showed me a lot on monday, he is better than i gave him credit for so, as many of us should, i am going to reassess things on a per week basis, one thing i dont suffer from is "take lock" and ill adjust accordingly to what i see. So far it seems IMO that Swift and CEH have the most talent of the rookies, they can also both catch exceptionally well so at this point id have them top 2. I had it different last week, CEH was in a different tier actually but again he showed me a lot on monday. In the end, anyone who has CEH, Swift, Taylor or Dobbins needs to hold. I am very worried about Akers though, although to be fair i was not a big fan to begin with.

Yeah I'm not saying Swift owners need to sell. I'd be willing to listen to anyone willing to offer a favorable deal on the basis of last week's game (and similarly I'd be careful moving his value up too much based on that game), but I wouldn't be pressing to sell him by any means.

I wish the owner in my league were more of a contender then a rebuilder or id be all over trying to get CEH now. His value this season is going to dip a little bit due to bell id think and id be willing to give up a lot for him since i think he and swift are a killer championship winning combo some day. But unfortunately the owner is more of a rebuilder and giving up CEH is a no go from them