Travis Fulgham

[Cameron Giles]

Fulgham might be better than this, but Wentz is making it difficult for anyone to be really good right now.

Either way, this is one of those trades that's bad when you make it and gets worse after.

[The MAC Machine]

Fulgham might be better than this, but Wentz is making it difficult for anyone to be really good right now.

Either way, this is one of those trades that's bad when you make it and gets worse after.

Agreed it has not aged well even if I thought it had potential to be savvy. I don’t understand how the team around Carson could get healthier And yet Carson himself continues regressing.

[PTW32]

Fulgham might be better than this, but Wentz is making it difficult for anyone to be really good right now.

Either way, this is one of those trades that's bad when you make it and gets worse after.

Agreed it has not aged well even if I thought it had potential to be savvy. I don’t understand how the team around Carson could get healthier And yet Carson himself continues regressing.

Well Alshon getting healthy look like a negative. I guess they feel obligated to play him even though he cant get open or catch.

[Sriracha]

Fulgham might be better than this, but Wentz is making it difficult for anyone to be really good right now.

Either way, this is one of those trades that's bad when you make it and gets worse after.

Agreed it has not aged well even if I thought it had potential to be savvy. I don’t understand how the team around Carson could get healthier And yet Carson himself continues regressing.

Well Alshon getting healthy look like a negative. I guess they feel obligated to play him even though he cant get open or catch.

There was a play where Alshon had pre-snap single coverage, instantly blew by his man for an easy touchdown... and Wentz just doesn't throw the ball.

I really feel like people are underestimating how bad Wentz has played. It's not all on him.. but his hesitancy and recklessness with the ball are torpedoing everyone's value in PHI (except for the TE's).

[Ice]

Agreed it has not aged well even if I thought it had potential to be savvy. I don’t understand how the team around Carson could get healthier And yet Carson himself continues regressing.

Well Alshon getting healthy look like a negative. I guess they feel obligated to play him even though he cant get open or catch.

There was a play where Alshon had pre-snap single coverage, instantly blew by his man for an easy touchdown... and Wentz just doesn't throw the ball.

I really feel like people are underestimating how bad Wentz has played. It's not all on him.. but his hesitancy and recklessness with the ball are torpedoing everyone's value in PHI (except for the TE's).

I think Wentz is pretty terrible but he doesn't factor into how I rate WR's at all. Alshon is a has been IMO; Not saying he is terrible but he is no longer a WR1 in fantasy. I only care about WR's with WR1 potential and sooner than later.

[Sriracha]

Well Alshon getting healthy look like a negative. I guess they feel obligated to play him even though he cant get open or catch.

There was a play where Alshon had pre-snap single coverage, instantly blew by his man for an easy touchdown... and Wentz just doesn't throw the ball.

I really feel like people are underestimating how bad Wentz has played. It's not all on him.. but his hesitancy and recklessness with the ball are torpedoing everyone's value in PHI (except for the TE's).

I think Wentz is pretty terrible but he doesn't factor into how I rate WR's at all. Alshon is a has been IMO; Not saying he is terrible but he is no longer a WR1 in fantasy. I only care about WR's with WR1 potential and sooner than later.

I can agree with that... but it really depends on my league where the WR thresholds start to matter (I'm in a few very deep leagues that dramatically increase the value of WRs like Corey Davis).

Alshon is definitely still able to put up WR3 numbers with upside... it's just that no WR is going to be putting up those numbers with the way Wentz and this PHI offense are playing.

The fall of Wentz is reminiscent of Mariota to me.. where he just lost all confidence in decision making and wasn't a particularly accurate passer to begin with. Mariota's story didn't have a happy ending... but PHI is committed to Wentz in a way that will give him every chance to right the ship... can he do it? We'll see...

[davidxhorn]

I've mentioned this before, and I am sure not everyone has read every page of a Travis Fulgham thread (although it has turned out to be entertaining), but want to provide context for that trade again:

- I stand by that Mike Evans' value as a WR1 is gone. It was an overreaction on my part, but I like trading and wanted to sell before he strung together 2-3 more bad games. Back through last year, he just was a fringe Wr2/WR3 save for 3 games that he went crazy in. I do not like players that have low floors, and it was looking like his floor was lowering steadily and he was very TD dependent. Definitely not someone that I am interested in having as my WR1 or paying WR1 prices for.
- I offered 8-10 trades around the league that week and the week prior. Some positioning Evans as a higher value (Ceedee Lamb + 2nd, or Evans for Josh Jacobs) and some with much lower value (late 1st, or Fulgham + early 2nd). All but that one were rejected fairly quickly, which is why I offered it up.
- Also, and this can't be understated, Fulgham looked very good on tape, and it was before Wentz went 5 weeks in a row of regression. Separation, hands, technique. It was definitely a gamble, but IMHO the payoff was a young WR1.
- It's in my Dungeons and Dragons league with a low buy-in, which contributed greatly to me pulling the trigger on this specific trade. I got him everywhere I could. Traded Gallup for him straight up in my 10-team (I will NEVER start Gallup, saving a team change in a few years). I traded Kirk for Fulgham + 2nd in another 12 team. Those are much more reasonable trades.

I mean, I lost the trade. At this point, it's very clear. It'd be cool to see more nuanced takes than "lol fulgham bad Evans good" (though I love some of the discussion I've seen). Dynasty is a huge gambling game. Sometimes the gamble is in the form of trading an established player for 1st Round picks as a main part of the package (I'm sure the folks who traded any startable RB or a WR for a 1st in 2018 to come away with Guice/Freeman/Michel/KJ feel me); but sometimes the gamble is in the form of trading an established commodity like Evans because you feel that the price will be coming down and the guy you like's price will be going up. If Evans sucked for two more weeks in a row, and Fulgham got 12+ targets and was featured when the offense was healthy, then maybe I lose that 2nd I got and it becomes Evans straight up for a new stud receiver!

I am a Cowboys fan, and I hate watching Eagles' games this closely because I want to prove myself right. I feel a load lift when I say, "I shouldn't have done that, but have come to terms with it". I also blame all of this on Carson Wentz for not throwing catchable passes.

P.S. - to the "that was a bad drop on the Hail Mary" guy - watch the replay. He put himself in great position, and Jamal Adams punched it out. I know he got two hands on it, but at the high point on a hands catch, getting an All Pro fist square on the ball isn't an easy play.

[MFundercover]

If you take away the plays where Evans scored points, he was actually very bad.

[dynastyninja]

I've mentioned this before, and I am sure not everyone has read every page of a Travis Fulgham thread (although it has turned out to be entertaining), but want to provide context for that trade again:

- I stand by that Mike Evans' value as a WR1 is gone. It was an overreaction on my part, but I like trading and wanted to sell before he strung together 2-3 more bad games. Back through last year, he just was a fringe Wr2/WR3 save for 3 games that he went crazy in. I do not like players that have low floors, and it was looking like his floor was lowering steadily and he was very TD dependent. Definitely not someone that I am interested in having as my WR1 or paying WR1 prices for.
- I offered 8-10 trades around the league that week and the week prior. Some positioning Evans as a higher value (Ceedee Lamb + 2nd, or Evans for Josh Jacobs) and some with much lower value (late 1st, or Fulgham + early 2nd). All but that one were rejected fairly quickly, which is why I offered it up.
- Also, and this can't be understated, Fulgham looked very good on tape, and it was before Wentz went 5 weeks in a row of regression. Separation, hands, technique. It was definitely a gamble, but IMHO the payoff was a young WR1.
- It's in my Dungeons and Dragons league with a low buy-in, which contributed greatly to me pulling the trigger on this specific trade. I got him everywhere I could. Traded Gallup for him straight up in my 10-team (I will NEVER start Gallup, saving a team change in a few years). I traded Kirk for Fulgham + 2nd in another 12 team. Those are much more reasonable trades.

I mean, I lost the trade. At this point, it's very clear. It'd be cool to see more nuanced takes than "lol fulgham bad Evans good" (though I love some of the discussion I've seen). Dynasty is a huge gambling game. Sometimes the gamble is in the form of trading an established player for 1st Round picks as a main part of the package (I'm sure the folks who traded any startable RB or a WR for a 1st in 2018 to come away with Guice/Freeman/Michel/KJ feel me); but sometimes the gamble is in the form of trading an established commodity like Evans because you feel that the price will be coming down and the guy you like's price will be going up. If Evans sucked for two more weeks in a row, and Fulgham got 12+ targets and was featured when the offense was healthy, then maybe I lose that 2nd I got and it becomes Evans straight up for a new stud receiver!

I am a Cowboys fan, and I hate watching Eagles' games this closely because I want to prove myself right. I feel a load lift when I say, "I shouldn't have done that, but have come to terms with it". I also blame all of this on Carson Wentz for not throwing catchable passes.

P.S. - to the "that was a bad drop on the Hail Mary" guy - watch the replay. He put himself in great position, and Jamal Adams punched it out. I know he got two hands on it, but at the high point on a hands catch, getting an All Pro fist square on the ball isn't an easy play.

Lots of words my dude, but I think you were just getting too far into the weeds. Sometimes it's best to just simplify. Elite wide receiver for a guy who had been cut twice pretty recently and was only getting an opportunity because of a ton of injuries.

I have no issue with trying to sell Evans. There are some question marks for him going forward. At that price, though, what's the point? Might as well hold and take the production while you wait for a better offer.

[Ice]

Bottom Line. Evans is a very productive WR. He is top 8 the last 5 weeks with 5 straight double digit games. I value him as a mid level WR2 these days which makes him a lock starter. He is only 27 with talent so he has years of solid production left. He may get his 7th straight 1000 season this year but even if he doesn't he is only 1 TD shy of his record of 12 TD's in a season.

@ davidxhorn; You basically bought the hype and sold him for magic beans......We have all been there if we have played long enough to have a few cosmic misses.

No worries; own it and learn from it.

[The MAC Machine]

I've mentioned this before, and I am sure not everyone has read every page of a Travis Fulgham thread (although it has turned out to be entertaining), but want to provide context for that trade again:

- I stand by that Mike Evans' value as a WR1 is gone. It was an overreaction on my part, but I like trading and wanted to sell before he strung together 2-3 more bad games. Back through last year, he just was a fringe Wr2/WR3 save for 3 games that he went crazy in. I do not like players that have low floors, and it was looking like his floor was lowering steadily and he was very TD dependent. Definitely not someone that I am interested in having as my WR1 or paying WR1 prices for.
- I offered 8-10 trades around the league that week and the week prior. Some positioning Evans as a higher value (Ceedee Lamb + 2nd, or Evans for Josh Jacobs) and some with much lower value (late 1st, or Fulgham + early 2nd). All but that one were rejected fairly quickly, which is why I offered it up.
- Also, and this can't be understated, Fulgham looked very good on tape, and it was before Wentz went 5 weeks in a row of regression. Separation, hands, technique. It was definitely a gamble, but IMHO the payoff was a young WR1.
- It's in my Dungeons and Dragons league with a low buy-in, which contributed greatly to me pulling the trigger on this specific trade. I got him everywhere I could. Traded Gallup for him straight up in my 10-team (I will NEVER start Gallup, saving a team change in a few years). I traded Kirk for Fulgham + 2nd in another 12 team. Those are much more reasonable trades.

I mean, I lost the trade. At this point, it's very clear. It'd be cool to see more nuanced takes than "lol fulgham bad Evans good" (though I love some of the discussion I've seen). Dynasty is a huge gambling game. Sometimes the gamble is in the form of trading an established player for 1st Round picks as a main part of the package (I'm sure the folks who traded any startable RB or a WR for a 1st in 2018 to come away with Guice/Freeman/Michel/KJ feel me); but sometimes the gamble is in the form of trading an established commodity like Evans because you feel that the price will be coming down and the guy you like's price will be going up. If Evans sucked for two more weeks in a row, and Fulgham got 12+ targets and was featured when the offense was healthy, then maybe I lose that 2nd I got and it becomes Evans straight up for a new stud receiver!

I am a Cowboys fan, and I hate watching Eagles' games this closely because I want to prove myself right. I feel a load lift when I say, "I shouldn't have done that, but have come to terms with it". I also blame all of this on Carson Wentz for not throwing catchable passes.

P.S. - to the "that was a bad drop on the Hail Mary" guy - watch the replay. He put himself in great position, and Jamal Adams punched it out. I know he got two hands on it, but at the high point on a hands catch, getting an All Pro fist square on the ball isn't an easy play.

Lots of words my dude, but I think you were just getting too far into the weeds. Sometimes it's best to just simplify. Elite wide receiver for a guy who had been cut twice pretty recently and was only getting an opportunity because of a ton of injuries.

I have no issue with trying to sell Evans. There are some question marks for him going forward. At that price, though, what's the point? Might as well hold and take the production while you wait for a better offer.

The trenches are where the games are played, not on the sideline where it’s safe. Half of this thread is about what Evans HAS BEEN vs what Evans IS. Evans HAS BEEN elite. He is not currently elite, nor do I believe he will be elite moving forward. To “simplify” I understand not letting go of Evans for too cheap, but the opposite of that is holding on too long - which by calling him elite when he hasn’t been performing at an elite level, seems like the path you are going down.

[Patsfan86]

Bottom Line. Evans is a very productive WR. He is top 8 the last 5 weeks with 5 straight double digit games. I value him as a mid level WR2 these days which makes him a lock starter. He is only 27 with talent so he has years of solid production left. He may get his 7th straight 1000 season this year but even if he doesn't he is only 1 TD shy of his record of 12 TD's in a season.

@ davidxhorn; You basically bought the hype and sold him for magic beans......We have all been there if we have played long enough to have a few cosmic misses.

No worries; own it and learn from it.

In my first year i traded Hopkins after his nuclear 2015 season for Michael Floyd and a first. Ill never forget this stink pile trade. I tried to justify it like DavidXhorn has his trade but in the end i couldnt, i still continued to make terrible trade after terrible trade for a few years after this and i would still justify them. It then clicked though and my trading record has been a lot better the last two years. Learn from this one sooner rather than later Davidxhorn, dont trade for guys like Fulgham until you see more, even if you fear having to pay a lot more in the future.

[Cameron Giles]

The trenches are where the games are played, not on the sideline where it’s safe. Half of this thread is about what Evans HAS BEEN vs what Evans IS. Evans HAS BEEN elite. He is not currently elite, nor do I believe he will be elite moving forward. To “simplify” I understand not letting go of Evans for too cheap, but the opposite of that is holding on too long - which by calling him elite when he hasn’t been performing at an elite level, seems like the path you are going down.

Evans is WR8 in Standard and WR17 in PPR. He's about 6 points off from a WR1 season in PPR. Either way, he's been about Top-15 at perhaps the deepest WR position in a long, long time. His high TD totals just show you how high his floor is and a part of why he's been elite.

I think we understand why he's not putting up the traditionally elite receiving yardage and it has nothing to do with a decline in skill level or talent. I don't think you're going to find many WRs who are playing with the talent level of Chris Godwin, Antonio Brown, and Rob Gronkowski on top of a QB who spreads the ball as well as Brady does.

A player like Evans certainly has earned the benefit of the doubt to still be elite after one down season, where he's still returning borderline WR1 production.

Highs and lows are a part of dynasty. Sometimes those lows may represent a decline in talent and ability, and sometimes they don't.

[Jigga94]

The trenches are where the games are played, not on the sideline where it’s safe. Half of this thread is about what Evans HAS BEEN vs what Evans IS. Evans HAS BEEN elite. He is not currently elite, nor do I believe he will be elite moving forward. To “simplify” I understand not letting go of Evans for too cheap, but the opposite of that is holding on too long - which by calling him elite when he hasn’t been performing at an elite level, seems like the path you are going down.

Evans is WR8 in Standard and WR17 in PPR. He's about 6 points off from a WR1 season in PPR. Either way, he's been about Top-15 at perhaps the deepest WR position in a long, long time. His high TD totals just show you how high his floor is and a part of why he's been elite.

I think we understand why he's not putting up the traditionally elite receiving yardage and it has nothing to do with a decline in skill level or talent. I don't think you're going to find many WRs who are playing with the talent level of Chris Godwin, Antonio Brown, and Rob Gronkowski on top of a QB who spreads the ball as well as Brady does.

A player like Evans certainly has earned the benefit of the doubt to still be elite after one down season, where he's still returning borderline WR1 production.

Highs and lows are a part of dynasty. Sometimes those lows may represent a decline in talent and ability, and sometimes they don't.

I agree Evans is far from done being elite. The problem is, people can scream sell low/high or whatever before a guy gets too old, but they never know. Eventually, they'll be right though and bang their chest. "Ha I told you Evans would fall off at 31!" Just took 4 years...

I mean, that's basically what a bunch of people said about Julio...

[CGW]

Easy on the Evans "was" elite talk. Those who don't see his elite traits don't watch many buccs games. Evans has good separation for a big guy and very good route running to go along with elite hand skills, size, speed, catch radius, and physicality. He is arguably the best red zone target in the game as well as the best contested catch target. What he doesn't have is age.

While I understand getting ahead of the curve, selling an elite player for peanuts is never the right gamble to make. He's worth more than a dart throw and a 2nd no matter what justification you have.