What is Saquons value like now?

[hoos89]

Once we're into next year the loss of production this year becomes irrelevant, we don't get points for what a guy did last year. If his ADP is still roughly the same next year then he's still as valuable as he has always been.

Sure, and in the meantime you may have lost a fantasy title because Barkley gave you 0 points for the last 14 weeks of the season. That won't be relevant to his value next year, but it absolutely is relevant to his current value

[themburns]

Actually, the generational running back is the guy who put up the second best fantasy season for a RB ever last year with Kyle Allen at QB.

Yep.

Wrong.

I'm sorry, you're right. if you play non PPR McCaffery's 2019 was only the 6th best running back season of all time.

[mild]

What is that supposed to mean? If you're a woman, I didn't even realize, and I doubt that poster did, either. What on earth does this have to do with gender?

It doesn't have anything to do with it, but it's a valid enough term considering this is a board populated almost entirely by dudes... and that the default position in the response was not questioning of intent, but rather a questioning of intelligence.

"I don't think you know what toxic means"
vs.
"I don't think you really meant to say toxic there"

That's the difference. I appreciate that it's subtle.

Regardless, I don't think I need to participate in this thread any more.

[jordanzs]

While Saquon is rehabbing & preparing to make his millions next year & beyond, I wonder if he secretly lurks on the site & watches people argue over his value, like they know what the future will bring......

[Vcize]

There’s no concrete proof he is actually top 3...and by averages he was technically never the top RB, let alone by a clear margin. Let’s not confuse Saquon with LT, who was CLEARLY head and shoulders above the field. Barkley is not that...in fact ADP was greater in comparison to the field than Barkley is/has been....

FWIW, LT didn't actually finish as the RB1 (IE above the field) until his age 27 season.

He was a top 3 RB every season before that other than his rookie year though, which is pretty insane.

[The MAC Machine]

+1 I have felt actively dumber for reading this thread.

Between this and the myriad James Robinson threads, I'm nearly fit to quit this place... toxic af.

Im not sure you understand what toxic means. We have beem extremely polite compared to many mudslinging threads ive seen. We disagree strongly but have managed to maintain a decent amount of respect. You dont have to visit any thread you dont want to be a part of dude. There are no assignments due.

....

Not being able to hear anothers opinion, that doesn't effect you personally, without throwing a fit is actually what is toxic.

Great, now I'm being man-splained as to what the definition of toxic is.

It wasn't the right word, sure. What I'm trying to express is the feeling that a lot of people are disagreeing around here, without actively trying to understand each other - nor level up their understanding of this game from some extremely patient posters. People are just trying to talk past each other, whilst dug in to their respective sides... to wit, 31 pages of James Robinson talk.

It's just kind of getting old. But sure, yes, perhaps it is I who is the problem here.

As you were gents... remember to have some fun with all this, yeah?

To be fair, we are all allowed to make our own choices and express why those choices work for us. The goal we all have is to make informed choices - even if those choices are different. I personally think by informing each other, and bringing perspective and information to the table, we are all actively seeking to contribute to a conversation we can all benefit from. If you don’t think you can benefit from participating in a conversation.......don’t ‍♂️Its that simple. However, I’ve personally learned quite a bit from the sparring. You may not know that because I don’t say it. But I do. I wouldn’t participate if I didn’t think it was beneficial. In a thread like the Jrob thread it’s tough because ultimately we are splitting hairs. With this conversation surrounding Barkley it’s tough because there is so much more for all of us to unpack and we all have different ways of presenting the information that ultimately shapes our opinions. Bottom line for me is, I’m always having fun That’s why I excessively use smileys. I think most people here who discuss things without resorting to insults are capable of withstanding a little heated discussion. But from that diamonds are created......OK, once I start diving into metaphors you know it’s time for me to go.

PS-you personally aren’t the problem. It’s the belief that people are stuck in their way and are bitter and miserable is the problem.

[Jigga94]

I was just offered James Robinson for him straight up. Accepted immediately......

So Saquon isn't worth a 1st?

[The MAC Machine]

There’s no concrete proof he is actually top 3...and by averages he was technically never the top RB, let alone by a clear margin. Let’s not confuse Saquon with LT, who was CLEARLY head and shoulders above the field. Barkley is not that...in fact ADP was greater in comparison to the field than Barkley is/has been....

FWIW, LT didn't actually finish as the RB1 (IE above the field) until his age 27 season.

He was a top 3 RB every season before that other than his rookie year though, which is pretty insane.

Precisely. And we are talking consecutive 2000 yard, 75+ catch, 15+ TD seasons at one point. Barkley had 1. If he had that kind of year this year hands down he would be unquestionable top 2 moving forward. But he’s injured so he’s now relegated to top 5 or 6 IMO. I think that’s a fair fade. But that’s just my opinion.

[gogobradyarm]

This is the dumbest thread I've ever read. If you think a 23 year generational RB's value dropped because of an ACL tear, you are clearly new to dynasty, and should continue reading the forum before making any further roster transactions.

One of the most condescending comments I've ever read on these boards. Losing a full year of production in a RB's prime absolutely devalues him. You may choose to think it doesn't, but value isn't just in trades, it's also tied to production, but I would suggest you test your theory and try to get what you could for him a few weeks ago, in terms of trade value. The league or, market, sets the value, not the owner. You can only get what people are willing to pay. Sure, his value may come back up next year, but you will never get that year of production back, which is the other part of his value. His ADP may be the same in the off season (although there is no guarantee), but his value still diminishes. You don't get the production, and therefor lose value, regardless of what his ADP climbs back to next year. Value is constantly fluctuating in terms of trade market, and right now, yes, Barkley's had dropped, because of an ACL tear.

That is a fundamental difference in theory then. I will never (99% of the time) sell a player that has a season ending injury, if I believe in their talent. So many players come back from a torn ACL, some times they come back better than ever. Kupp and AP both came back the following year, and had their best seasons.

Long story short, what the market will pay today for injured Barkley, will very likely be less than what they will pay next summer. If you want to base your argument on selling a 23 year RB right after he tore his ACL, so be it, you'll probably get less and his value is down. if you play dynasty like that, I don't see how you ever get ahead.

[gogobradyarm]

There’s no concrete proof he is actually top 3...and by averages he was technically never the top RB, let alone by a clear margin. Let’s not confuse Saquon with LT, who was CLEARLY head and shoulders above the field. Barkley is not that...in fact ADP was greater in comparison to the field than Barkley is/has been....

FWIW, LT didn't actually finish as the RB1 (IE above the field) until his age 27 season.

He was a top 3 RB every season before that other than his rookie year though, which is pretty insane.

Precisely. And we are talking consecutive 2000 yard, 75+ catch, 15+ TD seasons at one point. Barkley had 1. If he had that kind of year this year hands down he would be unquestionable top 2 moving forward. But he’s injured so he’s now relegated to top 5 or 6 IMO. I think that’s a fair fade. But that’s just my opinion.

If you think that Barkley getting a 2000 yard season is out of the realm of possibility when he returns as a 24 year old (or even the following couple years), then I could understand putting him around 5 or 6. That said, you better believe whoever you have ahead of him a has a better chance. Who that is, I really couldn't tell you because I simply don't see it, and that's why he is b2b with CMC for me. I could possibly see Zeke ahead of Saquon now, but Kamara while good isn't there for me. Anyone else you have ahead of Barkley at that point, is all complete projection after Saquon has done it and they haven't. I'll take the guy I know has done it...

[Bot101]

I’m with you FF

Eh, Bot and I are good buds, it's all in good fun.

Although I do not feel CMC is a generational running back. Switch Barkley and CMC on their respective teams and what do you get?

[Factory of Sadness]

The Panthers get a less decisive, less efficient runner who is nowhere near as reliable on the ground. They get a less well-rounded player in the passing game too. The Giants get a lesser athlete but a better player.

[The MAC Machine]

FWIW, LT didn't actually finish as the RB1 (IE above the field) until his age 27 season.

He was a top 3 RB every season before that other than his rookie year though, which is pretty insane.

Precisely. And we are talking consecutive 2000 yard, 75+ catch, 15+ TD seasons at one point. Barkley had 1. If he had that kind of year this year hands down he would be unquestionable top 2 moving forward. But he’s injured so he’s now relegated to top 5 or 6 IMO. I think that’s a fair fade. But that’s just my opinion.

If you think that Barkley getting a 2000 yard season is out of the realm of possibility when he returns as a 24 year old (or even the following couple years), then I could understand putting him around 5 or 6. That said, you better believe whoever you have ahead of him a has a better chance. Who that is, I really couldn't tell you because I simply don't see it, and that's why he is b2b with CMC for me. I could possibly see Zeke ahead of Saquon now, but Kamara while good isn't there for me. Anyone else you have ahead of Barkley at that point, is all complete projection after Saquon has done it and they haven't. I'll take the guy I know has done it...

That’s fair. But there’s one problem....Gurley has also done it (2100 yards, 64 catches, 19 TDs) in 2017 (in 15 games) and had 1800 total yards, 59 catches and 21 TDs in 2018 (in 14 games). He is only 26 right and 2 seasons removed from elite production...and Saquon will be 25 and 3 years removed from elite production come next year...by the logic you are using why would Saquon at this moment be too much farther ahead of Gurley in value?

I mean, I can probably answer that question, but I’d rather hear other people’s opinions. Maybe I will be surprised! 🥳🥳🥳

[Jigga94]

Precisely. And we are talking consecutive 2000 yard, 75+ catch, 15+ TD seasons at one point. Barkley had 1. If he had that kind of year this year hands down he would be unquestionable top 2 moving forward. But he’s injured so he’s now relegated to top 5 or 6 IMO. I think that’s a fair fade. But that’s just my opinion.

If you think that Barkley getting a 2000 yard season is out of the realm of possibility when he returns as a 24 year old (or even the following couple years), then I could understand putting him around 5 or 6. That said, you better believe whoever you have ahead of him a has a better chance. Who that is, I really couldn't tell you because I simply don't see it, and that's why he is b2b with CMC for me. I could possibly see Zeke ahead of Saquon now, but Kamara while good isn't there for me. Anyone else you have ahead of Barkley at that point, is all complete projection after Saquon has done it and they haven't. I'll take the guy I know has done it...

That’s fair. But there’s one problem....Gurley has also done it (2100 yards, 64 catches, 19 TDs) in 2017 (in 15 games) and had 1800 total yards, 59 catches and 21 TDs in 2018 (in 14 games). He is only 26 right and 2 seasons removed from elite production...and Saquon will be 25 and 3 years removed from elite production come next year...by the logic you are using why would Saquon at this moment be too much farther ahead of Gurley in value?

I mean, I can probably answer that question, but I’d rather hear other people’s opinions. Maybe I will be surprised! 🥳🥳🥳

Hmm maybe the degenerative knee issue

[bjd5211]

That’s fair. But there’s one problem....Gurley has also done it (2100 yards, 64 catches, 19 TDs) in 2017 (in 15 games) and had 1800 total yards, 59 catches and 21 TDs in 2018 (in 14 games). He is only 26 right and 2 seasons removed from elite production...and Saquon will be 25 and 3 years removed from elite production come next year...by the logic you are using why would Saquon at this moment be too much farther ahead of Gurley in value?

I mean, I can probably answer that question, but I’d rather hear other people’s opinions. Maybe I will be surprised! 🥳🥳🥳

I disagree, he had elite production last year considering all the challenges he faced, context matters. He had over 1,400 yards last year despite appearing in only 13 games and close to half of those he wasn't at full strength because he was still recovering from the High Ankle Sprain he suffered. On a per game basis he was still a top 10 RB despite those averages being cut down a bit by him having some poor performances in the game he got hurt and the games after he returned and wasn't completely recovered and was a top 12 RB (RB1) on total points for the season despite the time he missed, all while also being the focal point of opposing defenses and playing behind an awful offensive line. Then at the end of the year in the 2 most important weeks of the fantasy season he has 2 absolutely dominant performances that likely won his owners a title if they were able to survive his loss and diminished production in the middle of the season.