Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:25 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:08 am So your position is that the DEN playbook calls for the receiver to take 8 choppy steps in place as part of a timing mechanism and then get into his route? Well, I guess it’s possible but it would be the first I’ve ever heard of something like this.

And with that, I’ll withdraw from the discussion.
But again...if your premise is that he's slowing plays down or not running the right releases with his route, then where is your proof? You're talking about firsts, and nobody here has ever argued that a player is running the wrong releases and slowing an entire offense down.

If I said that Jeudy isn't succeeding because Lock is running the wrong plays and missing reads, wouldn't you want some sort of tangible evidence that this is true?

I'm only saying that Lock is one of the most inaccurate QBs in the league, which I can easily support past an opinion.

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby dynastyninja » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:37 am

Not directed at anyone, but the excessive critiques of Jeudy's footwork from a few plays on an internet forums only brings one thing to mind:

Image

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby mgscott » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:39 am

Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:25 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:08 am So your position is that the DEN playbook calls for the receiver to take 8 choppy steps in place as part of a timing mechanism and then get into his route? Well, I guess it’s possible but it would be the first I’ve ever heard of something like this.

And with that, I’ll withdraw from the discussion.
But again...if your premise is that he's slowing plays down or not running the right releases with his route, then where is your proof? You're talking about firsts, and nobody here has ever argued that a player is running the wrong releases and slowing an entire offense down.

If I said that Jeudy isn't succeeding because Lock is running the wrong plays and missing reads, wouldn't you want some sort of tangible evidence that this is true?

I'm only saying that Lock is one of the most inaccurate QBs in the league, which I can easily support past an opinion.
Lock went from a fairly respectable 2019 completion percentage of 64.1% to a dreadful 57.3% in 2020 with the only major change being losing an efficient route running and sure-handed Sutton and gaining a dropsy, inefficient route runner in Jeudy. There's your proof.

Case Closed.

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby mgscott » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:40 am

dynastyninja wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:37 am Not directed at anyone, but the excessive critiques of Jeudy's footwork from a few plays on an internet forums only brings one thing to mind:

Image
Dammit, I thought I had my camera covered!

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:43 am

mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:04 am All we are doing here is speculating, including what PFF is doing on that stat. What do you or PFF have to validate that all of those passes were inaccurate? Just the fact that the ball was incomplete and that Jeudy wasn't where the ball was? Unless PFF is getting direct info from the actual teams as to what the play was and how the route was supposed to be run, they are just guessing too. On your example above where Lock has a clean pocket and can wait for Jeudy to get open. Maybe the play was supposed to be delayed like that or maybe he fortunately had a clean pocket so he could wait for Jeudy to finally get open and throw the pass. We don't know. But if the pocket wasn't clean and he had pressure, he likely can't wait that long for Jeudy to do his 8 step dance to run the slant. We don't know.

I am certainly mocking him here some, but I find it curious why you don't seem able to even acknowledge the possibility that Jeudy may take too much time or excessive movements to run some routes. It all is apparently by design and he is the best route running WR of his class. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
I think we have different definitions of speculation.

Saying that a WR is running the wrong release with a route and slowing an entire offense down without anything to support it would be speculation. You're using a lot of "maybe" "possibly" "it could've been" without anything to really support a stance.

PFF watches All-22 and grades plays in detail. They aren't 100% factual of course, but what they're doing is a lot closer to a factual conclusion than a hunch. The article has plenty of data to support its stance.

I'm simply asking you for some level of proof of what the slot WR is supposed to do on that play and what Jeudy is supposed to be doing on the plays he's slowing the offense down. A lot of things are possible, but responding to an article that actually has tangible proof with hunches doesn't really do anything.

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby mgscott » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:49 am

Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:43 am
mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:04 am All we are doing here is speculating, including what PFF is doing on that stat. What do you or PFF have to validate that all of those passes were inaccurate? Just the fact that the ball was incomplete and that Jeudy wasn't where the ball was? Unless PFF is getting direct info from the actual teams as to what the play was and how the route was supposed to be run, they are just guessing too. On your example above where Lock has a clean pocket and can wait for Jeudy to get open. Maybe the play was supposed to be delayed like that or maybe he fortunately had a clean pocket so he could wait for Jeudy to finally get open and throw the pass. We don't know. But if the pocket wasn't clean and he had pressure, he likely can't wait that long for Jeudy to do his 8 step dance to run the slant. We don't know.

I am certainly mocking him here some, but I find it curious why you don't seem able to even acknowledge the possibility that Jeudy may take too much time or excessive movements to run some routes. It all is apparently by design and he is the best route running WR of his class. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
I think we have different definitions of speculation.

Saying that a WR is running the wrong release with a route and slowing an entire offense down without anything to support it would be speculation. You're using a lot of "maybe" "possibly" "it could've been" without anything to really support a stance.

PFF watches All-22 and grades plays in detail. They aren't 100% factual of course, but what they're doing is a lot closer to a factual conclusion than a hunch. The article has plenty of data to support its stance.

I'm simply asking you for some level of proof of what the slot WR is supposed to do on that play and what Jeudy is supposed to be doing on the plays he's slowing the offense down. A lot of things are possible, but responding to an article that actually has tangible proof with hunches doesn't really do anything.
Your asking for something that obviously can't be provided unless I am or know the Denver coaches or players. I don't believe PFF does or is either, so in a lot of ways they are speculating. I don't want to diminish the work and time they put in, but I wouldn't use it as a gold standard either.

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:50 am

mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:39 am
Lock went from a fairly respectable 2019 completion percentage of 64.1% to a dreadful 57.3% in 2020 with the only major change being losing an efficient route running and sure-handed Sutton and gaining a dropsy, inefficient route runner in Jeudy. There's your proof.

Case Closed.
First thing: This is an awful defense for what you argued.

Second: Denver changed hree offensive line starters from 2019, traded Emmanuel Sanders, and added Melvin Gordon. So, just purely from the idea that "the only major change" in their offense is adding Jeudy...is not even close to reality.

So, again I ask...where is proof that Jeudy is running the wrong releases for his routes?

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am

mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:49 am
Your asking for something that obviously can't be provided unless I am or know the Denver coaches or players. I don't believe PFF does or is either, so in a lot of ways they are speculating. I don't want to diminish the work and time they put in, but I wouldn't use it as a gold standard either.
You are clearly speculating. PFF actually watched games, charted, graded, and compiled data for these plays. I don't see how you can say that you are both essentially doing the same thing. I'm not saying they are 100% factual, but they definitely are able to form educated stances about players.

I'm all for opinions, but usually we have something to back it up outside of just throwing caution to the wind.

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby mgscott » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 am

Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am
mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:49 am
Your asking for something that obviously can't be provided unless I am or know the Denver coaches or players. I don't believe PFF does or is either, so in a lot of ways they are speculating. I don't want to diminish the work and time they put in, but I wouldn't use it as a gold standard either.
You are clearly speculating. PFF actually watched games, charted, graded, and compiled data for these plays. I don't see how you can say that you are both essentially doing the same thing. I'm not saying they are 100% factual, but they definitely are able to form educated stances about players.

I'm all for opinions, but usually we have something to back it up outside of just throwing caution to the wind.
Again, you're asking for proof of something that can't be provided.

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:06 am

mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 am
Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am
mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:49 am
Your asking for something that obviously can't be provided unless I am or know the Denver coaches or players. I don't believe PFF does or is either, so in a lot of ways they are speculating. I don't want to diminish the work and time they put in, but I wouldn't use it as a gold standard either.
You are clearly speculating. PFF actually watched games, charted, graded, and compiled data for these plays. I don't see how you can say that you are both essentially doing the same thing. I'm not saying they are 100% factual, but they definitely are able to form educated stances about players.

I'm all for opinions, but usually we have something to back it up outside of just throwing caution to the wind.
Again, you're asking for proof of something that can't be provided.
Which means...the article posted is a much more reasonable conclusion for Jeudy's struggles last season than a hunch that you can't support.

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby mgscott » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 am

Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:06 am
mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 am
Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 am

You are clearly speculating. PFF actually watched games, charted, graded, and compiled data for these plays. I don't see how you can say that you are both essentially doing the same thing. I'm not saying they are 100% factual, but they definitely are able to form educated stances about players.

I'm all for opinions, but usually we have something to back it up outside of just throwing caution to the wind.
Again, you're asking for proof of something that can't be provided.
Which means...the article posted is a much more reasonable conclusion for Jeudy's struggles last season than a hunch that you can't support.
Which article was posted? You don't mean a twitter feed do you?

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby Pac_Eddy » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:54 am

This long thread of catfights is a drag. We need the draft to show up yesterday so this forum can get to something more productive.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby murphysxm » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:42 am

Pac_Eddy wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:54 am This long thread of catfights is a drag. We need the draft to show up yesterday so this forum can get to something more productive.
I am the choir and you are preaching to me
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:03 pm

mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 am
Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:06 am
mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 am

Again, you're asking for proof of something that can't be provided.
Which means...the article posted is a much more reasonable conclusion for Jeudy's struggles last season than a hunch that you can't support.
Which article was posted? You don't mean a twitter feed do you?
https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... rs-in-2020

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Re: Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

Postby mgscott » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:10 pm

Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:03 pm
mgscott wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 am
Cameron Giles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:06 am

Which means...the article posted is a much more reasonable conclusion for Jeudy's struggles last season than a hunch that you can't support.
Which article was posted? You don't mean a twitter feed do you?
https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... rs-in-2020
Fair enough. Although it is an article on the topic that I still contend has a lot of subjective "data"


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