Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

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QB Browns
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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby QB Browns » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:26 am

Actually just had this discussion with my league mates the other day. We're toying with the idea of kicking all future draft picks back one season (ex: your 2021 first becomes your 2022 first, meaning if you made trades and have 3 firsts in 2021 you keep those 3 from the teams you traded with, just delayed a year) and then doing a straight auction for 2020 rookies. We basically decided that trying to predict who should get what pick is too messy and the auction would put everyone on equal footing. Obviously doesn't do what a normal draft does in giving worse teams a distinct advantage, but it also doesn't put any other team at an advantage either, but part of the thinking is that you traded for picks from other teams trying to estimate where they'd finish and this in theory maintains the current standings. Basically keeps the status quo for a season that's lost and then picks back up the next year.
10 team, 2 QB, 3 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1WR/TE, 1 RB/WR/TE, K, DEF, .5 ppr

QB: C. Wentz, D. Prescott, B. Roethlisberger, R. Tannehill, S. Darnold, R. Fitzpatrick

RB: A. Kamara, S. Barkley, C. Carson, R. Mostert, J. Conner, J. Dobbins, A. Dillon, J. Kelley, D. Harris

WR: M. Evans, M. Thomas, D. Adams, K. Allen, A. Robinson, T. Lockett, H. Butler, M. Boykin, C. Lamb, C. Claypool

TE: D. Waller

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby moishetreats » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:14 am

I just had a new thought (one that, of course, goes directly against my K.I.S.S. suggested made earlier!):: Combine the 2020 and 2021 drafts and picks.

Here's how it would work: If there is no Rookie Draft in 2020, then ALL players -- rookies, vets, etc. -- stay on the waiver wire. In 2021, all the 2020 rookies AND all the 2021 rookies (and vets) may be drafted.

Then merge the picks from the two years (obviously keeping draft order the same for the 2021 picks):

1.01) 2020 1.01
1.02) 2021 1.01
1.03) 2020 1.02
1.04) 2021 1.03

Yes, there will be some conversation about which draft is more valuable, etc. I still prefer K.I.S.S., but this seems like a nice option. As an added bonus, when making trades now for 2021 picks, you are 100% of where they will be slotted!
www.fantasyfootballforever.com - SF/2QB website

10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex

QB: Wilson, Wentz, Rodgers, Love
RB: Mixon, Gurley, Montgomery, Dillon, Moss, Armstead
WR: Hill, Cooper, Lockett, Hilton, Anderson, Lazard, Arcega-Whiteside, Sims, Ward, Renfrow
TE: Kelce, Goedert, Jarwin, Sternberger, K Smith, Arnold, L Thomas

2021: 2ndx3, 3rdx2, 4thx2, 5th
2022: 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th



12 tms 22 plyrs {IR} [Taxi]. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex/ best ball

QB: Stafford ($36 through 2022), Brady (43), Rodgers (28/21), Garappolo (5/20), Winston (3/24), K Allen (1/20) [Morgan (1/24), Luton (1/24), Gordon (1/24)]
RB: Mixon (29/23), Gurley (5/20), Dillon (12/24), Z Moss (10/24), Hines (1/20), Snell (1/20) [Perine (2/22)]
WR: Adams (31/22), Cooper (28/20), Kupp (3/21), AJ Brown (7/23), R Anderson (3/21), Ward (1/20)
TE: Kelce (28/21), Ertz (22/21), Goedert (8/22)
Total+dead cap hits $286

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:48 am

moishetreats wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:14 am
I just had a new thought (one that, of course, goes directly against my K.I.S.S. suggested made earlier!):: Combine the 2020 and 2021 drafts and picks.

Here's how it would work: If there is no Rookie Draft in 2020, then ALL players -- rookies, vets, etc. -- stay on the waiver wire. In 2021, all the 2020 rookies AND all the 2021 rookies (and vets) may be drafted.

Then merge the picks from the two years (obviously keeping draft order the same for the 2021 picks):

1.01) 2020 1.01
1.02) 2021 1.01
1.03) 2020 1.02
1.04) 2021 1.03

Yes, there will be some conversation about which draft is more valuable, etc. I still prefer K.I.S.S., but this seems like a nice option. As an added bonus, when making trades now for 2021 picks, you are 100% of where they will be slotted!

Except most leagues have already held their 2020 Rookie drafts...

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:02 am

QB Browns wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:26 am
Obviously doesn't do what a normal draft does in giving worse teams a distinct advantage, but it also doesn't put any other team at an advantage either, but part of the thinking is that you traded for picks from other teams trying to estimate where they'd finish and this in theory maintains the current standings. Basically keeps the status quo for a season that's lost and then picks back up the next year.
Yes it does. I guarantee there are a couple of teams in your league who would obviously finish at or near the top most years, and would never be in position to acquire a Ja'marr Chase/Lawrence/Fields (QBs in SF leagues) the majority of years but under this format they would. Which will lead to them bidding strong for the elite talents that would normally go to the lesser teams. The bad teams will then be left with the choice of either going along with these Bidding wars and only getting the one stud player and then maybe a cheap player or two later, or just conceding the elite players so they can get multiple mid-tier guys because poor teams usually need multiple players to turn it around. This fundamentally changes the way talent distribution is designed to work in draft leagues, and will lead to the best players going to the best teams in most cases, which is exactly the opposite of how it was designed to work.

There's not a perfect solution, but converting drafts to auctions will create more issues than it solves. Don't mistake treating every team equally as treating every team fairly because every team is not equal to begin with, this shifts the advantage to the best teams in the league.

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby moishetreats » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:54 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:48 am
moishetreats wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:14 am
I just had a new thought (one that, of course, goes directly against my K.I.S.S. suggested made earlier!):: Combine the 2020 and 2021 drafts and picks.

Here's how it would work: If there is no Rookie Draft in 2020, then ALL players -- rookies, vets, etc. -- stay on the waiver wire. In 2021, all the 2020 rookies AND all the 2021 rookies (and vets) may be drafted.

Then merge the picks from the two years (obviously keeping draft order the same for the 2021 picks):

1.01) 2020 1.01
1.02) 2021 1.01
1.03) 2020 1.02
1.04) 2021 1.03

Yes, there will be some conversation about which draft is more valuable, etc. I still prefer K.I.S.S., but this seems like a nice option. As an added bonus, when making trades now for 2021 picks, you are 100% of where they will be slotted!

Except most leagues have already held their 2020 Rookie drafts...
Some, yes. Obviously, this wouldn't apply to them.
www.fantasyfootballforever.com - SF/2QB website

10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex

QB: Wilson, Wentz, Rodgers, Love
RB: Mixon, Gurley, Montgomery, Dillon, Moss, Armstead
WR: Hill, Cooper, Lockett, Hilton, Anderson, Lazard, Arcega-Whiteside, Sims, Ward, Renfrow
TE: Kelce, Goedert, Jarwin, Sternberger, K Smith, Arnold, L Thomas

2021: 2ndx3, 3rdx2, 4thx2, 5th
2022: 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th



12 tms 22 plyrs {IR} [Taxi]. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex/ best ball

QB: Stafford ($36 through 2022), Brady (43), Rodgers (28/21), Garappolo (5/20), Winston (3/24), K Allen (1/20) [Morgan (1/24), Luton (1/24), Gordon (1/24)]
RB: Mixon (29/23), Gurley (5/20), Dillon (12/24), Z Moss (10/24), Hines (1/20), Snell (1/20) [Perine (2/22)]
WR: Adams (31/22), Cooper (28/20), Kupp (3/21), AJ Brown (7/23), R Anderson (3/21), Ward (1/20)
TE: Kelce (28/21), Ertz (22/21), Goedert (8/22)
Total+dead cap hits $286

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby Water Buffalo » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:05 pm

Haven't posted in a long time around here, but this is something that my league is just now starting to come to grips with - that there might not be a season.

For any of you who are wanting to base 2021 draft order (with no 2020 season) on 2019 finishes, there's one thing I haven't seen discussed in depth yet that poses a huge issue that I just can't personally find a solution for - teams that intentionally sold off most or all of their current (as of 2019) assets for 2020 picks.

For example, I had a team in my league that was pretty rough in 2018 and 2019. They didn't "tank" but they made a conscious effort to trade for 2020 picks. They obviously finished with a pretty rough 2019 record, I think they had the 2nd worst finish in the league. But for 2020, they also had 8 picks in the first 2 rounds, 4 in each. In a 12 team league, they owned 1/3 of the entire first 2 rounds of the draft. Their team now obviously looks incredibly different and has a LOT of new, fresh talent on it because of the strategy they took. They might not be instant contenders, but I don't think it would be at all fair to say that their team is the same team that finished with a terrible 2019 record.

I'm liking reading through these answers though. I'm not set on any solution yet, but some sort of weighted lottery would likely be the direction I'd want to go.

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby ManuManu » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:30 am

I haven’t read through the thread, but my commish said we’ll have our 2020 draft in August like usual unless the season is postponed, then we’ll do it a week prior to the re-start. Typically we do our draft in a group chat all done in a couple of hours. If the season is canceled we’ll do a longer draft with six hour clocks just to change things up a bit.

As for the 2021 draft, we’re going to change the format to best ball and go in inverse order of projected points. That seems to be the most fair way to do things.
Team 1, 10-team 0.5-PPR
QB (1): Wentz, Cam, Tannehill
RB (2-3): Swift, Dobbins, David Johnson, K. Johnson, Duke Johnson, D. Harris, J. Jackson, D. Evans
WR (3-4): Hill, A-Rob, Diggs, Fuller, Reagor, Aiyuk, V. Jefferson, Isabella, P. Williams, Perriman, Fulgham
TE (1-2): J. Smith, Hurst

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby YouMightDieTryin » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:34 am

Water Buffalo wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:05 pm
Haven't posted in a long time around here, but this is something that my league is just now starting to come to grips with - that there might not be a season.

For any of you who are wanting to base 2021 draft order (with no 2020 season) on 2019 finishes, there's one thing I haven't seen discussed in depth yet that poses a huge issue that I just can't personally find a solution for - teams that intentionally sold off most or all of their current (as of 2019) assets for 2020 picks.

For example, I had a team in my league that was pretty rough in 2018 and 2019. They didn't "tank" but they made a conscious effort to trade for 2020 picks. They obviously finished with a pretty rough 2019 record, I think they had the 2nd worst finish in the league. But for 2020, they also had 8 picks in the first 2 rounds, 4 in each. In a 12 team league, they owned 1/3 of the entire first 2 rounds of the draft. Their team now obviously looks incredibly different and has a LOT of new, fresh talent on it because of the strategy they took. They might not be instant contenders, but I don't think it would be at all fair to say that their team is the same team that finished with a terrible 2019 record.

I'm liking reading through these answers though. I'm not set on any solution yet, but some sort of weighted lottery would likely be the direction I'd want to go.
:lol: That sounds like me! Are you in my league? Show yourself!

That's a conundrum I'm at as well. How would you weigh it based on that information? With that team still getting the 2nd best odds to land the pick still?

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby Ray Finkle » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:16 am

We’ve decided not to crown a champion unless we can have our playoffs play out entirely whether that be a full or planned shortened season by the NFL. If the season ends abruptly, oh well.

I think we’ve settled on a minimum of 6 weeks played then we’d be comfortable using standings at that time to determine 2021 draft order. As long as we get that accomplished with the way things are looking, I’ll be happy.

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby jenkins.math » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:22 am

We have decided there must be at least 8 games played this year for our season to count.

If we don't make it to 8 games we are going to use a tier based lottery system based on last year's final standings to determine 2021 draft order. In my 14 team league we are grouping the worst 5 teams in a tier, 6-10 in a tier, and 11-14 in a tier. Then we will give them odds to determine draft order in that tier. So the 5 worst teams will still pick in the top 5, just order will be determined by a lottery and so on. That way we aren't just gifting a team pick number 1, but we also don't have to worry about a team beating the odds and a contender getting a top 3 pick or a really bad team picking last.
Team 1: 14 team dynasty, 25 man roster, keep 14
QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, D/ST, K, DL, LB, DE
QB: Ryan, Mayfield
RB: Barkley, CEH, Kelley, Ahmed, Snell
WR: OBJ, Evans, Juju, Moore, Jeudy, Reagor, Corey Davis, Cooks
TE: Kittle, L. Thomas
K: Butker
D/ST: Browns, Bears
DL: Buckner
LB: Kendricks
DB: B. Baker

Team 2: 12 team PPR Salary Cap
QB: Watson, Goff
RB: Barkley, CEH, Gibson, Howard, Perine, Lewis, Ozigbo
WR: Hill, Allen, Boyd, Landry, Sims, DJax, Hamler, Westbrook
TE: Schultz, Ebron, Thomas, Keene, Jarwin
K: Tucker
D/ST: Steelers, Bills
Taxi: Lock, Bryce Love, Higgins

Team 3: 12 team SF
QB: Wentz, Mayfield, Love
RB: AP, Lewis, Perine, JJ Taylor, Vaughn, Mack
WR: Jeudy, Jeffrey, P Williams, Mooney, Cephus, Fitz, Gandy-Golden, Hightower, Swain, Bisi Johnson, Tate
TE: Doyle, Smith, Trautman, Keene, Warring

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby Shoreline Steamers » Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:26 pm

I think our magic number for a "completed" season will be 6 games. If something like that were to pass, and then the season abruptly ended, we would use all-play records for those 6 weeks to determine draft order. We're normally a head-to-head league, but if there were only 6 games played we'd likely have way too many teams with identical records.

If we used all-play data for the 6 weeks of games played, our league would essentially have 78 games of competition to determine win % and overall record. Less likely we'd have identical records, and should provide a more accurate portrait of where the teams actually stand in terms of relative strength, and thus merit for a higher/lower draft pick.
14 Team, No-PPR, 20 Man Roster, TD Heavy, TD = 6, FG = 3, Start: QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, Flex, K, D
QB: R. Wilson, L. Jackson
RB: J. Mixon, N. Chubb, G. Edwards, A. Dillon, J. Jackson
WR: M. Thomas, C. Godwin, D. Johnson, T. Hilton, S. Watkins, Q. Cephus
TE: T. Kelce, E. Engram, D. Sample
14 Team, No-PPR, 18 Man Roster, Rush/Rec TD = 6, Pass TD = 4, FG = 3, Start: QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, Flex, K, D
QB: L. Jackson, D. Brees, T. Tagovailoa
RB: D. Cook, M. Sanders, S. Michel, L. Murray, E. Benjamin
WR: D. Parker, C. Ridley, J. Crowder, P. Campbell, B. Edwards, Q. Cephus
TE: D. Waller, J. Smith

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Re: Rookie Draft is season is cancelled

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:33 pm

Shoreline Steamers wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:26 pm
I think our magic number for a "completed" season will be 6 games. If something like that were to pass, and then the season abruptly ended, we would use all-play records for those 6 weeks to determine draft order. We're normally a head-to-head league, but if there were only 6 games played we'd likely have way too many teams with identical records.

If we used all-play data for the 6 weeks of games played, our league would essentially have 78 games of competition to determine win % and overall record. Less likely we'd have identical records, and should provide a more accurate portrait of where the teams actually stand in terms of relative strength, and thus merit for a higher/lower draft pick.
We’re going with 8 and using total points.

But yeah, definitely agree that the next order of business is figuring out what to do if the season starts and stops. This thread/forum has been a great resource for this.
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