The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Short Leash in Chicago

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Dalton to Big D

Postby gmoftheyear » Sat May 02, 2020 6:58 pm

Andy Dalton signing with the Cowboys to back up Dak. Also, puts some pressure on Dak to sign his tender? Good move as a Cowboy fan. Dalton has put up good career numbers and believe it or not has a winning career record with the Bengals. That's an accomplishment in itself. If he plays at all he could put up some good numbers with that offense.
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Re: Dalton to Big D

Postby FantasyFreak » Sat May 02, 2020 7:02 pm

I thought that's what it was about. They could probably put together a better contender with Dalton on a 7 million dollar deal as opposed to Dak at 40.
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Re: Dalton to Big D

Postby gmoftheyear » Sat May 02, 2020 7:07 pm

Dak's not getting 40 now. He should just sign the tag for 33 and get another chance at free agency next year if that's how he wants to play it.
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WR- Metcalf, Pickens, Higgins, DJ Moore
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K- Aubrey
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Re: Dalton to Big D

Postby Shankopotamus » Sat May 02, 2020 7:38 pm

Savvy move by Dallas. Bad for Dalton and Dak, but good for Minshew and Stidham in the near future.
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Re: Dalton to Big D

Postby FantasyFreak » Sat May 02, 2020 9:14 pm

Shankopotamus wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 7:38 pm Savvy move by Dallas. Bad for Dalton and Dak, but good for Minshew and Stidham in the near future.
I'd say it's good for Dalton. He has an opportunity to come in and display his skillset to the Dallas management, who still have time to decide if they want to pay Dak. If Andy shows enough, they could opt for a much cheaper deal with him instead of putting an albatross around their neck with Dak.
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Re: Dalton to Big D

Postby abloom » Sat May 02, 2020 9:26 pm

Good move for Andy. Any Dak injury (not that there is a history of them) and he'll get a chance to work with a very strong offense. If Dak doesn't sign a long term deal, the cowboys could decide that its better to pay Andy less and spend the money elsewhere. For Cowboys it gives them a decent backup and some leverage on Dak.
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R: Swift, Walker, Dobbins, gus bus
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T: Kelce, Pitts
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Re: Dalton to Big D

Postby Ray Finkle » Sun May 03, 2020 3:43 am

Wow, I have not seen this news anywhere. This a nice surprisingly practical move for Dallas. They now have the best backup in the league and maybe a touch of a reality check for Dak. For fantasy purposes, this should provide a little insulation for all of those offensive weapons if Dak were to get injured. Always a bummer when you’re guy’s production goes into the dumpster because they lose their QB.

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Re: Dalton to Big D

Postby Orenthal Shames » Sun May 03, 2020 4:45 am

FantasyFreak wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 9:14 pm
Shankopotamus wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 7:38 pm Savvy move by Dallas. Bad for Dalton and Dak, but good for Minshew and Stidham in the near future.
I'd say it's good for Dalton. He has an opportunity to come in and display his skillset to the Dallas management, who still have time to decide if they want to pay Dak. If Andy shows enough, they could opt for a much cheaper deal with him instead of putting an albatross around their neck with Dak.
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby ArrylT » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:30 pm

Personally I think, like with many assets, guys like Dalton can be really good values to acquire.

First & foremost let it be known I am never ever going to say that Dalton is on par with an Aaron Rodgers, a Tom Brady or a Russell Wilson. However, at least from a shorter-term view, he can put up useful production, and that is always very helpful - whether in 1 QB or SF format. A lot will obviously depend on the scoring format of your league in regards to QBs.

If you're in a league using 6 -4 scoring (the norm in DLF/ Scott Fish leagues) Dalton could be a hidden gem. For example last year, from Weeks 11-16 Dalton was QB9. 13 TD / 4 int ratio compares to Brady/Mahomes over that period. I believe he was a top 30 point producer, which means in a SF or best ball format that could have been huge.

I know what some of you're going to say - he was on Dallas, and all the credit goes to Dallas. I disagree. The Dallas offence was meant to be built around Dak Prescott that year, not Dalton. So basically taking a QB on a new team in a new offence, who had both a concussion & covid mid-season in a year you're not getting fully attenuated to your surroundings thanks to a pandemic, thrust into the starter role - and he gives you QB 9 production down the stretch ... yeah that is all on everyone but him. :lol:

No I think what Dalton, like many QBs, and heck many players, is that in the right system & with decent weapons, is a guy who can help you win games (in fantasy). Like I said, no one is ever going to mistake him for Mahomes, or Lawrence or such. But he doesnt need to be. He just needs to be effective enough. Football remains a team game & a team that is cohesive is a strength. If you've been around long enough, you may actually recall Daltons best season.

2015

Week 13 he goes down with a season ending injury - but up to that point he was QB5. He had a stud WR - AJ Green in prime of career, a couple of solid backs in Hill & Bernard, a healthy Eifert & the underrated Marvin Jones.

Well in Chicago he'll have Allen Robinson in his prime. David Montgomery & Cohen & Damien Williams. And if Mooney is legit, then he'll take on the Marvin Jones roles (or maybe Chicago drafts a stud WR since ARob is on a 1 year tag). And Graham & Kmet at TE.

Best team ever? No. But a solid team with solid weapons.

So feel free to laugh, or mock, or dismiss. You might even be right, in hindsight, if things go sour. But a fully healthy Dalton in a system with a stud WR and good secondary weapons? Do not be surprised if a full season of Dalton looks very similar to a full season of Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford or Kirk Cousins, but at a cheaper cost (especially in SF).

Daltons floor has always been a mid to low QB2 ... but every once in a while a QB like that can have a nice mid QB1 season when things are pieced together. Alex Smith got one. Dalton had one. Tannehill is showing he can have them.

To me a very valuable key to success in dynasty, is figuring out players who can be redraft values, over & over again. You want long term studs like CMC or Adams, but you also want guys who've been around long enough that you know what you can expect, and then when they hit with reliable production be it Dalton or Jared Cook or Chris Carson or Brandin Cooks, that is what helps put you on top - that depth production you got on the cheap because everyone else was too busy looking at the memes and not the potential production.

So something to keep in mind this off-season if you're a contender, if you can acquire a Dalton as a buy low ... stash him and lets see. :)
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby McCafsteez » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:41 pm

ArrylT wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:30 pm Personally I think, like with many assets, guys like Dalton can be really good values to acquire.

First & foremost let it be known I am never ever going to say that Dalton is on par with an Aaron Rodgers, a Tom Brady or a Russell Wilson. However, at least from a shorter-term view, he can put up useful production, and that is always very helpful - whether in 1 QB or SF format. A lot will obviously depend on the scoring format of your league in regards to QBs.

If you're in a league using 6 -4 scoring (the norm in DLF/ Scott Fish leagues) Dalton could be a hidden gem. For example last year, from Weeks 11-16 Dalton was QB9. 13 TD / 4 int ratio compares to Brady/Mahomes over that period. I believe he was a top 30 point producer, which means in a SF or best ball format that could have been huge.

I know what some of you're going to say - he was on Dallas, and all the credit goes to Dallas. I disagree. The Dallas offence was meant to be built around Dak Prescott that year, not Dalton. So basically taking a QB on a new team in a new offence, who had both a concussion & covid mid-season in a year you're not getting fully attenuated to your surroundings thanks to a pandemic, thrust into the starter role - and he gives you QB 9 production down the stretch ... yeah that is all on everyone but him. :lol:

No I think what Dalton, like many QBs, and heck many players, is that in the right system & with decent weapons, is a guy who can help you win games (in fantasy). Like I said, no one is ever going to mistake him for Mahomes, or Lawrence or such. But he doesnt need to be. He just needs to be effective enough. Football remains a team game & a team that is cohesive is a strength. If you've been around long enough, you may actually recall Daltons best season.

2015

Week 13 he goes down with a season ending injury - but up to that point he was QB5. He had a stud WR - AJ Green in prime of career, a couple of solid backs in Hill & Bernard, a healthy Eifert & the underrated Marvin Jones.

Well in Chicago he'll have Allen Robinson in his prime. David Montgomery & Cohen & Damien Williams. And if Mooney is legit, then he'll take on the Marvin Jones roles (or maybe Chicago drafts a stud WR since ARob is on a 1 year tag). And Graham & Kmet at TE.

Best team ever? No. But a solid team with solid weapons.

So feel free to laugh, or mock, or dismiss. You might even be right, in hindsight, if things go sour. But a fully healthy Dalton in a system with a stud WR and good secondary weapons? Do not be surprised if a full season of Dalton looks very similar to a full season of Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford or Kirk Cousins, but at a cheaper cost (especially in SF).

Daltons floor has always been a mid to low QB2 ... but every once in a while a QB like that can have a nice mid QB1 season when things are pieced together. Alex Smith got one. Dalton had one. Tannehill is showing he can have them.

To me a very valuable key to success in dynasty, is figuring out players who can be redraft values, over & over again. You want long term studs like CMC or Adams, but you also want guys who've been around long enough that you know what you can expect, and then when they hit with reliable production be it Dalton or Jared Cook or Chris Carson or Brandin Cooks, that is what helps put you on top - that depth production you got on the cheap because everyone else was too busy looking at the memes and not the potential production.

So something to keep in mind this off-season if you're a contender, if you can acquire a Dalton as a buy low ... stash him and lets see. :)
Thanks for sharing, this was a great read. I scooped up The Red Rifle from waivers in my big 1QB league. Great to get another starting QB considering i have Watson (& fortunately Herbert) As a Bears fan, I am gaining more hope as long as Dalton can manage games effectively and as long as Nagy calls a good game.
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby abloom » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:31 am

McCafsteez wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:41 pm
ArrylT wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:30 pm Personally I think, like with many assets, guys like Dalton can be really good values to acquire.

First & foremost let it be known I am never ever going to say that Dalton is on par with an Aaron Rodgers, a Tom Brady or a Russell Wilson. However, at least from a shorter-term view, he can put up useful production, and that is always very helpful - whether in 1 QB or SF format. A lot will obviously depend on the scoring format of your league in regards to QBs.

If you're in a league using 6 -4 scoring (the norm in DLF/ Scott Fish leagues) Dalton could be a hidden gem. For example last year, from Weeks 11-16 Dalton was QB9. 13 TD / 4 int ratio compares to Brady/Mahomes over that period. I believe he was a top 30 point producer, which means in a SF or best ball format that could have been huge.

I know what some of you're going to say - he was on Dallas, and all the credit goes to Dallas. I disagree. The Dallas offence was meant to be built around Dak Prescott that year, not Dalton. So basically taking a QB on a new team in a new offence, who had both a concussion & covid mid-season in a year you're not getting fully attenuated to your surroundings thanks to a pandemic, thrust into the starter role - and he gives you QB 9 production down the stretch ... yeah that is all on everyone but him. :lol:

No I think what Dalton, like many QBs, and heck many players, is that in the right system & with decent weapons, is a guy who can help you win games (in fantasy). Like I said, no one is ever going to mistake him for Mahomes, or Lawrence or such. But he doesnt need to be. He just needs to be effective enough. Football remains a team game & a team that is cohesive is a strength. If you've been around long enough, you may actually recall Daltons best season.

2015

Week 13 he goes down with a season ending injury - but up to that point he was QB5. He had a stud WR - AJ Green in prime of career, a couple of solid backs in Hill & Bernard, a healthy Eifert & the underrated Marvin Jones.

Well in Chicago he'll have Allen Robinson in his prime. David Montgomery & Cohen & Damien Williams. And if Mooney is legit, then he'll take on the Marvin Jones roles (or maybe Chicago drafts a stud WR since ARob is on a 1 year tag). And Graham & Kmet at TE.

Best team ever? No. But a solid team with solid weapons.

So feel free to laugh, or mock, or dismiss. You might even be right, in hindsight, if things go sour. But a fully healthy Dalton in a system with a stud WR and good secondary weapons? Do not be surprised if a full season of Dalton looks very similar to a full season of Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford or Kirk Cousins, but at a cheaper cost (especially in SF).

Daltons floor has always been a mid to low QB2 ... but every once in a while a QB like that can have a nice mid QB1 season when things are pieced together. Alex Smith got one. Dalton had one. Tannehill is showing he can have them.

To me a very valuable key to success in dynasty, is figuring out players who can be redraft values, over & over again. You want long term studs like CMC or Adams, but you also want guys who've been around long enough that you know what you can expect, and then when they hit with reliable production be it Dalton or Jared Cook or Chris Carson or Brandin Cooks, that is what helps put you on top - that depth production you got on the cheap because everyone else was too busy looking at the memes and not the potential production.

So something to keep in mind this off-season if you're a contender, if you can acquire a Dalton as a buy low ... stash him and lets see. :)
Thanks for sharing, this was a great read. I scooped up The Red Rifle from waivers in my big 1QB league. Great to get another starting QB considering i have Watson (& fortunately Herbert) As a Bears fan, I am gaining more hope as long as Dalton can manage games effectively and as long as Nagy calls a good game.
Grabbed him during the season for my SF league (team #2 in signature). Made it a lot easier to convince me to trade for Watson this off season.
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T: Kelce, Goedert, Thomas, woods
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K: Sanders

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T: Kelce, Pitts
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby sugbear65 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:15 am

He was barely relevant in Dallas with all those weapons. I have trouble believing he can be any better for fantasy in Chicago on a worse offense. Given the options, I’d put money on him being replaced by a rookie like Trask or Mond by the end of the season over being a fantasy QB2 all year.

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby ArrylT » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:53 am

McCafsteez wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:41 pm Thanks for sharing, this was a great read. I scooped up The Red Rifle from waivers in my big 1QB league. Great to get another starting QB considering i have Watson (& fortunately Herbert) As a Bears fan, I am gaining more hope as long as Dalton can manage games effectively and as long as Nagy calls a good game.
Well as I am sure you're aware Nagy was the QB Coach and then the OC for Alex Smith from 13-17. 2017 was the year Tyreek Hill fully broke out. That year Alex Smith ended up being QB 4/5 overall. In the end a QBs ranking will have a lot to do with how the health of other QBs plays out / job security. For example Alex Smiths 2017 would be QB6 in 2019 or QB12 in 2020. And 4000 yards with 26-30 TDs is definitely within Daltons range of outcomes considering the cast he'll have will be similar to what Smith had in 2017 under Nagy. But we'll have to wait and see. Either way good pickup. :thumbup:

abloom wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:31 am Grabbed him during the season for my SF league (team #2 in signature). Made it a lot easier to convince me to trade for Watson this off season.
Not sure if that is a good thing or not. :lol: But I am going to assume you meant after the news broke.
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby Shankopotamus » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:08 pm

sugbear65 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:15 am He was barely relevant in Dallas with all those weapons. I have trouble believing he can be any better for fantasy in Chicago on a worse offense. Given the options, I’d put money on him being replaced by a rookie like Trask or Mond by the end of the season over being a fantasy QB2 all year.
Their entire OL was hurt for half of it, and didn't he finish the last few weeks as a top 15 qb?
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RB- D’Andre Swift, Nick Chubb, Javonte Williams, Cam Akers, Kyren Williams, Jerome Ford, D’Ernest Johnson, Darrell Henderson
WR- DK Metcalf, DJ Moore, Chris Godwin, Jameson Williams, Gabe Davis, Hollywood Brown, Josh Reynolds, Calvin Austin, Laviska Shenault, Kyle Phillips
TE-Mark Andrews, Greg Dulcich, Isaiah Likely, Donald Parham, Tyler Conklin
DL-Danielle Hunter, Nick Bosa, Deforest Buckner, Jonathon Allen
LB- Micah Parsons, Jack Sanborn, Logan Wilson, Cole Holcomb, Nakobe Dean, Brian Asamoah
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby ArrylT » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:34 pm

Shankopotamus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:08 pm
sugbear65 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:15 am He was barely relevant in Dallas with all those weapons. I have trouble believing he can be any better for fantasy in Chicago on a worse offense. Given the options, I’d put money on him being replaced by a rookie like Trask or Mond by the end of the season over being a fantasy QB2 all year.
Their entire OL was hurt for half of it, and didn't he finish the last few weeks as a top 15 qb?
After the Cowboys bye week - so a 6 week period from Weeks 11-16 Dalton was QB9 to 12 depending on scoring settings. I think it is perfectly reasonable to be aware that he was helped by the weapons around him, but that he was not the result of everything else being good while he was awful. The Bears, according to PFF, actually had a better O-Line grade in 2020. So if their O-Line in 2021 is similar or improved ...
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..


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