The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Short Leash in Chicago

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sugbear65
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby sugbear65 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:58 pm

ArrylT wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:34 pm
Shankopotamus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:08 pm
sugbear65 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:15 am He was barely relevant in Dallas with all those weapons. I have trouble believing he can be any better for fantasy in Chicago on a worse offense. Given the options, I’d put money on him being replaced by a rookie like Trask or Mond by the end of the season over being a fantasy QB2 all year.
Their entire OL was hurt for half of it, and didn't he finish the last few weeks as a top 15 qb?
After the Cowboys bye week - so a 6 week period from Weeks 11-16 Dalton was QB9 to 12 depending on scoring settings. I think it is perfectly reasonable to be aware that he was helped by the weapons around him, but that he was not the result of everything else being good while he was awful. The Bears, according to PFF, actually had a better O-Line grade in 2020. So if their O-Line in 2021 is similar or improved ...
I did say barely relevant, but do admit that is higher than I’d realized during those weeks, so I apologize for making it sound like he was useless.
How many people actually started him in those weeks I wonder though. I doubt many had him in lineups when he was coming back from injury, and it took some balls/roster attrition to start him in the playoffs and championship.
I still doubt he makes it past a year in Chicago, or through the entire year for that matter. I guess it’s my personal belief that Dalton is a Backup/Replacemnt level talent that drives that.
But again I apologize if I shortchanged Dalton’s 2020 performance for anyone.

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby RB6 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:17 pm

You didn't. There is much more evidence to suggest he is a mediocre at best QB.
.5PPR 1Q/3W/2R/1T/1SF/2F
LJax, Burrow, Carr, Huntley, Heinicke, Cunningham
Adams, Kupp, Deebo, M Brown, Kirk, Wiliams, C Samuel, Palmer, E. Moore, Hodgins, Hutchinson
CMC, Barkley, Mostert, Ford, Moss, Dobbins, Dillon, Kelley, Tucker
Andrews, Higbee

PPR 1Q/3W/2R/1T/1SF/2F
Mahomes, Purdy, Dalton, Henicke, Trask, Zappe
Henry, Pacheco, Robinson, Wilson, Ford, Chandler, Deuce
Hill, Kupp, Shaheed, Toney, Lazard, Metchie, Mingo, Slayton, Shenault, Atwell, Hutchinson
Pitts, Waller, Washington

PPR Best Ball Dynasty SF .5TEP
Stroud, Cousins, Willis, Mariota, Cunningham
Walker, J Cook, Miller, Zamir, Rodriguez, Carter, Penny
St. Brown, Aiyuk, DJ Moore, London, Doubs, Metchie, Scott, Claypool
Kincaid, Dulcich, Fant, Turner, Hurst

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby ArrylT » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:23 pm

sugbear65 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:58 pm
ArrylT wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:34 pm
Shankopotamus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:08 pm

Their entire OL was hurt for half of it, and didn't he finish the last few weeks as a top 15 qb?
After the Cowboys bye week - so a 6 week period from Weeks 11-16 Dalton was QB9 to 12 depending on scoring settings. I think it is perfectly reasonable to be aware that he was helped by the weapons around him, but that he was not the result of everything else being good while he was awful. The Bears, according to PFF, actually had a better O-Line grade in 2020. So if their O-Line in 2021 is similar or improved ...
I did say barely relevant, but do admit that is higher than I’d realized during those weeks, so I apologize for making it sound like he was useless.
How many people actually started him in those weeks I wonder though. I doubt many had him in lineups when he was coming back from injury, and it took some balls/roster attrition to start him in the playoffs and championship.
I still doubt he makes it past a year in Chicago, or through the entire year for that matter. I guess it’s my personal belief that Dalton is a Backup/Replacemnt level talent that drives that.
But again I apologize if I shortchanged Dalton’s 2020 performance for anyone.
I see nothing to apologize for. :thumbup:

I actually had to start Dalton last year in a couple of leagues. :oops: So I admit I have personal experience from this benefiting teams. I am also going to be adding him cheaply late in best ball redraft leagues, where draft plan allows for it. Plus I too have just added a couple of shares in dynasty* - hoping that what you (and I think most may feel) think will come to past will not occur.

I am hopefully optimistic (but not to the point I would urge anyone to overpay for Dalton) that Nagy can make him relevant again, definitely in SF, and perhaps as a matchup QB in QB1 leagues. But if that does not happen, I doubt few will be too surprised or disappointed, provided they did not pay a ton to own him. :mrgreen:

So basically I am hoping that the flags I am seeing are Green, and that things are looking up, while still being aware that we need to be cautious in investing. :pray:

* - I own him in pretty much DLF named league I am in. :lol: :oops:
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby RB6 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:35 pm

ArrylT wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:23 pm
sugbear65 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:58 pm
ArrylT wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:34 pm

After the Cowboys bye week - so a 6 week period from Weeks 11-16 Dalton was QB9 to 12 depending on scoring settings. I think it is perfectly reasonable to be aware that he was helped by the weapons around him, but that he was not the result of everything else being good while he was awful. The Bears, according to PFF, actually had a better O-Line grade in 2020. So if their O-Line in 2021 is similar or improved ...
I did say barely relevant, but do admit that is higher than I’d realized during those weeks, so I apologize for making it sound like he was useless.
How many people actually started him in those weeks I wonder though. I doubt many had him in lineups when he was coming back from injury, and it took some balls/roster attrition to start him in the playoffs and championship.
I still doubt he makes it past a year in Chicago, or through the entire year for that matter. I guess it’s my personal belief that Dalton is a Backup/Replacemnt level talent that drives that.
But again I apologize if I shortchanged Dalton’s 2020 performance for anyone.
I see nothing to apologize for. :thumbup:

I actually had to start Dalton last year in a couple of leagues. :oops: So I admit I have personal experience from this benefiting teams. I am also going to be adding him cheaply late in best ball redraft leagues, where draft plan allows for it. Plus I too have just added a couple of shares in dynasty* - hoping that what you (and I think most may feel) think will come to past will not occur.

I am hopefully optimistic (but not to the point I would urge anyone to overpay for Dalton) that Nagy can make him relevant again, definitely in SF, and perhaps as a matchup QB in QB1 leagues. But if that does not happen, I doubt few will be too surprised or disappointed, provided they did not pay a ton to own him. :mrgreen:

So basically I am hoping that the flags I am seeing are Green, and that things are looking up, while still being aware that we need to be cautious in investing. :pray:

* - I own him in pretty much DLF named league I am in. :lol: :oops:
Ah, there it is. So this is more about convincing yourself than others.
.5PPR 1Q/3W/2R/1T/1SF/2F
LJax, Burrow, Carr, Huntley, Heinicke, Cunningham
Adams, Kupp, Deebo, M Brown, Kirk, Wiliams, C Samuel, Palmer, E. Moore, Hodgins, Hutchinson
CMC, Barkley, Mostert, Ford, Moss, Dobbins, Dillon, Kelley, Tucker
Andrews, Higbee

PPR 1Q/3W/2R/1T/1SF/2F
Mahomes, Purdy, Dalton, Henicke, Trask, Zappe
Henry, Pacheco, Robinson, Wilson, Ford, Chandler, Deuce
Hill, Kupp, Shaheed, Toney, Lazard, Metchie, Mingo, Slayton, Shenault, Atwell, Hutchinson
Pitts, Waller, Washington

PPR Best Ball Dynasty SF .5TEP
Stroud, Cousins, Willis, Mariota, Cunningham
Walker, J Cook, Miller, Zamir, Rodriguez, Carter, Penny
St. Brown, Aiyuk, DJ Moore, London, Doubs, Metchie, Scott, Claypool
Kincaid, Dulcich, Fant, Turner, Hurst

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby ArrylT » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:11 pm

RB6 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:35 pm
ArrylT wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:23 pm
sugbear65 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:58 pm

I did say barely relevant, but do admit that is higher than I’d realized during those weeks, so I apologize for making it sound like he was useless.
How many people actually started him in those weeks I wonder though. I doubt many had him in lineups when he was coming back from injury, and it took some balls/roster attrition to start him in the playoffs and championship.
I still doubt he makes it past a year in Chicago, or through the entire year for that matter. I guess it’s my personal belief that Dalton is a Backup/Replacemnt level talent that drives that.
But again I apologize if I shortchanged Dalton’s 2020 performance for anyone.
I see nothing to apologize for. :thumbup:

I actually had to start Dalton last year in a couple of leagues. :oops: So I admit I have personal experience from this benefiting teams. I am also going to be adding him cheaply late in best ball redraft leagues, where draft plan allows for it. Plus I too have just added a couple of shares in dynasty* - hoping that what you (and I think most may feel) think will come to past will not occur.

I am hopefully optimistic (but not to the point I would urge anyone to overpay for Dalton) that Nagy can make him relevant again, definitely in SF, and perhaps as a matchup QB in QB1 leagues. But if that does not happen, I doubt few will be too surprised or disappointed, provided they did not pay a ton to own him. :mrgreen:

So basically I am hoping that the flags I am seeing are Green, and that things are looking up, while still being aware that we need to be cautious in investing. :pray:

* - I own him in pretty much DLF named league I am in. :lol: :oops:
Ah, there it is. So this is more about convincing yourself than others.
Personally I have never liked that line of thought. I mean if a DLF Writer or Fantasy Analyst talks about a player, and it ends up they have no shares, we would say they did not have the willingness to back their beliefs. I think this is why a lot of people do not talk about who they own when they talk about players - because of the strawman arguments to be made as distractions.

So to me my owning Dalton, is immaterial to whether or not my posts convinces another owner to monitor Dalton and/or consider targeting him as a stash - again it is not like anyone is advocating we should be re-crowning him in the top 12 of QB rankings or should be going out to bust the bank to own him. It simply means I will benefit if what I think is possible, will occur. After all I am already invested - so no need to be convinced to take on shares. :lol:

Although I guess that depends on what you think I am trying to convince myself of. :think: :lol:

If it is that Dalton is a good* QB, I was convinced of that already. If it is that I need to be convinced he has QB1 upside - there is historical evidence that shows this. If it is whether or not he will have a QB1 season in Chicago. Well the jury is out on that and there are too many variables to know if it is more than a possibility at this stage.

As mentioned previously a QBs ranking in the mid to late QB1 rankings each year has a lot to do with what other QBs are doing and their health - because your own production one year can place you in different spots when compared to others.

And admittedly I did not know how many Dalton shares I owned until I looked at his MFL page where it shows your leagues. However 25% shares across all my leagues seems pretty reasonable for an inexpensive proposition. :)

* not great or elite. But above mediocre. However that is my pov and I fully respect anyone who feels he is mediocre to worse.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby thebeast » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:08 pm

Hey guys, my view is Dalton is a roster clogger in 1qb leagues. He may have a few weeks of value in super flex. He will likely be replaced by a rookie by year end. There is no chance that Pace and Naggy, who are in the hot seat, leave their fate in the hands of Dalton all year.

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby Hottoddies » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:59 am

thebeast wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:08 pm Hey guys, my view is Dalton is a roster clogger in 1qb leagues. He may have a few weeks of value in super flex. He will likely be replaced by a rookie by year end. There is no chance that Pace and Naggy, who are in the hot seat, leave their fate in the hands of Dalton all year.
Chicago has the 20th pick in the first round. They are not drafting a QB with the ability to start this year. If they value their jobs, Dalton will be the starter all year.
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby thebeast » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:12 am

Hottoddies wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:59 am
thebeast wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:08 pm Hey guys, my view is Dalton is a roster clogger in 1qb leagues. He may have a few weeks of value in super flex. He will likely be replaced by a rookie by year end. There is no chance that Pace and Naggy, who are in the hot seat, leave their fate in the hands of Dalton all year.
Chicago has the 20th pick in the first round. They are not drafting a QB with the ability to start this year. If they value their jobs, Dalton will be the starter all year.
Oh, wow. I didn’t know that they aren’t allowed to make any trades or sign anyone else. Thanks for the eye opener. In any case, if you’re correct then Pace and Naggy will both be looking for new jobs by 2022.

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby ArrylT » Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:00 am

Free Agent QBs still available

M. Barkley
McCarron
RG III
Bortles
Gabbert
Hoyer
Mannion
Mullens

However if the Bears do decide to sign any of them it will probably be post-draft. Regardless none of those guys, imho, could be brought up to speed & fit into the offence Nagy is designing for 2021, and so would all be depth/backup to Dalton - unless he completely falls apart in training camp (which hes never done). Whether or not any of them are more appealing to other owners as having more upside/talent that is your choice - I personally do not see any of them as being able to beat out Dalton, not with the head start already accrued.

Obviously it is possible that they move up - however due to the number of teams that could / should be in the market for QBs above them it seems that that might be cost prohibitive to the Bears - I would expect it to be a future 1st & a 2nd/3rd on top of their #20 to get up to 12-14 range.

I certainly am not ruling it out, but at the same time I would not be completely surprised if the Bears decided to move down, and then take someone like Davis Mills or Kyle Trask or Kellen Mond. Or maybe stand pat and take one of them. :surprised: However I do not know how much of that is wishful thinking on peoples parts or actual interest that the Bears have.

We'll have to wait & see - however if they way til Day II, or Day III to draft QB, then it seems pretty safe that Dalton will, barring an awful stretch of games (or injury), will be their QB most of the season, since he has shown multiple times he's capable of being a starter.

If they do take a QB in Rd 1 or 2 then perhaps a QB competition may be happening, that would depend on the QB and how quickly they can pick up the Bears O The Bears have however, mocked or not, made it clear Dalton was their QB 1, so I would expect any QB they do take to be on the more sit & wait side. Of course we'll see how the season progresses and how much pressure builds - again assuming a legit threat to Dalton in 2021 is added. The Eagles on the other hand just said it would be an open competition ...
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby Cameron Giles » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:01 pm

thebeast wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:08 pm Hey guys, my view is Dalton is a roster clogger in 1qb leagues. He may have a few weeks of value in super flex. He will likely be replaced by a rookie by year end. There is no chance that Pace and Naggy, who are in the hot seat, leave their fate in the hands of Dalton all year.
If he's not replaced by a rookie, he will be by Foles, who I'm not convinced Dalton is better than.

Just an ugly QB situation there.

Definitely can see a few decent fantasy games, but that's the default optimistic expectation for any starting QB.

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby Plank » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:31 am

My biggest problem with Dalton is the hospital balls he throws, seen way too many passes to the flat where Gio got lit up ...
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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby Ray Finkle » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:02 am

ARob is bound to have one of those careers that we look back on and say...man, what if?

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:03 am

Ray Finkle wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:02 am ARob is bound to have one of those careers that we look back on and say...man, what if?
He's been playing with awful QBs since college

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Starting in Chicago

Postby ArrylT » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:39 pm

Looks like it is RIP Dalton (and Foles).
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: The Red Rifle Thread: Dalton Short Leash in Chicago

Postby mild » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:45 pm

Let the Justin Fields era begin!


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