Courtland Sutton?

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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby JoshGordonsDealer » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:02 am

Orenthal Shames wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:15 am
JoshGordonsDealer wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:03 am
I could seriously see this being a Godwin/Evans situation. Doubtful that they get the volume that the Bucs did but I think Jeudy, Hamler, and Sutton are beautifully complimentary on paper.

I don’t see Hamler being a weekly startable guy in FF but he’s going to command attention for the risk of chunk plays to buy some breathing room for Jeudy and Sutton. I think as early as this year we’ll see Jeudy and Sutton have comparable fantasy outputs with Jeudy having the higher floor and Sutton with a few massive weeks.
My main worry is the volume. At least in Dallas with Lamb, you are looking at a 5000 yard passing offense. There is plenty to spread around. In Denver, you're likely looking at <4000.
Agreed. I think Sutton and Jeudy are both WR2s for fantasy purposes. Fant is probably 3rd on the pecking order? I do think that Denver ratchets up the pass a bit this year. I’m not sure you can spent 4 first and second round picks on weapons in the passing game over two years and then never toss the rock.

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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby g30rry » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:30 am

If Sutton suffers, it'll have more to do with Lock not developing than Jeudy being on the field.
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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby flyersfan1981 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:42 am

Jigga94 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:48 am
flyersfan1981 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:59 am
Kmani6 wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:15 pm
From an NFL standpoint the Broncos are doing everything right to set up Lock well. But to think that we love this for Sutton just doesn't make sense. Jeudy is the best WR on that field, and them bringing him in, Hamler, and MG3 who scores a lot of TDs isn't one of those opens the field moments. His ceiling is definitely capped, and I don't see him as making the jump to WR 1 anymore.
Disagree! If Sutton were in this weekend's draft, he is probably the top WR teams would take. I don't think this affects Sutton positively or negatively to be honest. He should see. Ore favorable coverage and we know he is a beast.
He wasn't even the first WR in his own draft though...
Not sure how that matters today. I was just saying if you took Sutton with two years of NFL experience and threw him into this draft he would likely have been the top WR ahead of the rest. I was making a point that it was ridiculous for someone to say Jeudy is the best WR on that field. I mean let's see how he does against NFL defenses. Jeudy regressed in his most recent season and other than his explosion in an irrelevant bowl game, he only had more than 100 yards against Duke, New Mexico State, Arkansas, and Mississippi State, all teams without any defense. He was contained by LSU and shut down by Auburn. And basically didn't do much against most of the SEC teams that made bowl games.
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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby flyersfan1981 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:47 am

g30rry wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:30 am
If Sutton suffers, it'll have more to do with Lock not developing than Jeudy being on the field.
This!!!
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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby Jigga94 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:59 am

flyersfan1981 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:42 am
Jigga94 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:48 am
flyersfan1981 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:59 am


Disagree! If Sutton were in this weekend's draft, he is probably the top WR teams would take. I don't think this affects Sutton positively or negatively to be honest. He should see. Ore favorable coverage and we know he is a beast.
He wasn't even the first WR in his own draft though...
Not sure how that matters today. I was just saying if you took Sutton with two years of NFL experience and threw him into this draft he would likely have been the top WR ahead of the rest.
Oh... You could say that about almost any WR though. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement. Not really fair to compare a player with 2 years experience to a guy who just got done playing college.
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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:23 pm

The number of people in here saying that Jeudy coming to Denver is a good thing for Sutton is crazy. You're telling me before the draft you were hoping, for the sake of your Sutton shares, that Denver would draft Jeudy? I don't believe you.

Sutton was the WR21 overall and WR27 in PPG.

He was the 33rd in yards per target, and 47th in fantasy points per target.

He had the 8th highest target share, playing the 10th highest percentage of snaps, and receiving the 15th most targets.

His value and production have come from opportunity. Jeudy cuts into that opportunity. This isn't to say that Sutton is doomed; if Lock makes a leap then Sutton will be fine. Thing is, if Lock makes a leap, Sutton's production will still probably be lower than what it would have been without Jeudy. Either way, a team adding significant target competition is bad.
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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby Sriracha » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:30 pm

OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:23 pm
The number of people in here saying that Jeudy coming to Denver is a good thing for Sutton is crazy. You're telling me before the draft you were hoping, for the sake of your Sutton shares, that Denver would draft Jeudy? I don't believe you.

Sutton was the WR21 overall and WR27 in PPG.

He was the 33rd in yards per target, and 47th in fantasy points per target.

He had the 8th highest target share, playing the 10th highest percentage of snaps, and receiving the 15th most targets.

His value and production have come from opportunity. Jeudy cuts into that opportunity. This isn't to say that Sutton is doomed; if Lock makes a leap then Sutton will be fine. Thing is, if Lock makes a leap, Sutton's production will still probably be lower than what it would have been without Jeudy. Either way, a team adding significant target competition is bad.
I'm lower on Jeudy than most.

I think he's Amari Cooper-lite: an elite WR2 but not a WR1.

A bit of a hot take, but I see him having a very high floor, and a good ceiling.. but lower than Lamb/Reagor. I'd be a lot more worried about Sutton if they chose Lamb

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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:42 pm

OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:23 pm
The number of people in here saying that Jeudy coming to Denver is a good thing for Sutton is crazy. You're telling me before the draft you were hoping, for the sake of your Sutton shares, that Denver would draft Jeudy? I don't believe you.

Sutton was the WR21 overall and WR27 in PPG.

He was the 33rd in yards per target, and 47th in fantasy points per target.

He had the 8th highest target share, playing the 10th highest percentage of snaps, and receiving the 15th most targets.

His value and production have come from opportunity. Jeudy cuts into that opportunity. This isn't to say that Sutton is doomed; if Lock makes a leap then Sutton will be fine. Thing is, if Lock makes a leap, Sutton's production will still probably be lower than what it would have been without Jeudy. Either way, a team adding significant target competition is bad.
Keep in mind that Denver was 29th in plays per game last season. They're a respectable bet to improve significantly on that next season (They were 14th the year before).

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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:46 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:42 pm
OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:23 pm
The number of people in here saying that Jeudy coming to Denver is a good thing for Sutton is crazy. You're telling me before the draft you were hoping, for the sake of your Sutton shares, that Denver would draft Jeudy? I don't believe you.

Sutton was the WR21 overall and WR27 in PPG.

He was the 33rd in yards per target, and 47th in fantasy points per target.

He had the 8th highest target share, playing the 10th highest percentage of snaps, and receiving the 15th most targets.

His value and production have come from opportunity. Jeudy cuts into that opportunity. This isn't to say that Sutton is doomed; if Lock makes a leap then Sutton will be fine. Thing is, if Lock makes a leap, Sutton's production will still probably be lower than what it would have been without Jeudy. Either way, a team adding significant target competition is bad.
Keep in mind that Denver was 29th in plays per game last season. They're a respectable bet to improve significantly on that next season (They were 14th the year before).
For sure. The team making improvements on the offense will likely increase overall plays. I don't expect Sutton's numbers to be affected much, overall. I think he's a solid WR2.

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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby flyersfan1981 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:56 pm

Jigga94 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:59 am
flyersfan1981 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:42 am
Jigga94 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:48 am


He wasn't even the first WR in his own draft though...
Not sure how that matters today. I was just saying if you took Sutton with two years of NFL experience and threw him into this draft he would likely have been the top WR ahead of the rest.
Oh... You could say that about almost any WR though. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement. Not really fair to compare a player with 2 years experience to a guy who just got done playing college.
Well it was stated by someone here that Jeudy is already the best WR on that roster. I was merely pointing out it is wrong until he proves it.
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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby AussieMate » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:10 pm

IZigUZag wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:30 pm
OhCruelestRanter wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:23 pm
The number of people in here saying that Jeudy coming to Denver is a good thing for Sutton is crazy. You're telling me before the draft you were hoping, for the sake of your Sutton shares, that Denver would draft Jeudy? I don't believe you.

Sutton was the WR21 overall and WR27 in PPG.

He was the 33rd in yards per target, and 47th in fantasy points per target.

He had the 8th highest target share, playing the 10th highest percentage of snaps, and receiving the 15th most targets.

His value and production have come from opportunity. Jeudy cuts into that opportunity. This isn't to say that Sutton is doomed; if Lock makes a leap then Sutton will be fine. Thing is, if Lock makes a leap, Sutton's production will still probably be lower than what it would have been without Jeudy. Either way, a team adding significant target competition is bad.
I'm lower on Jeudy than most.

I think he's Amari Cooper-lite: an elite WR2 but not a WR1.

A bit of a hot take, but I see him having a very high floor, and a good ceiling.. but lower than Lamb/Reagor. I'd be a lot more worried about Sutton if they chose Lamb
You basically said everything I was going to.

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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby AussieMate » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:12 pm

I'm not saying it's great for his value, only that they were almost guaranteed to take a wr there and I'm glad it's Jeudy not Lamb

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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby Ice » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:22 am

I would trade Sutton away for Jeudy in a heartbeat. These two are not close.

Sutton has WR2 upside in fantasy. Jeudy has elite WR1 upside due to vastly superior route running.

Can't imagine too many Fantasy football players saying with a straight face they would rather have Sutton.
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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby Dirty Mike&the Boys » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:28 am

Ice wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:22 am
I would trade Sutton away for Jeudy in a heartbeat. These two are not close.

Sutton has WR2 upside in fantasy. Jeudy has elite WR1 upside due to vastly superior route running.

Can't imagine too many Fantasy football players saying with a straight face they would rather have Sutton.
Sutton has already done it for a year, where as Jeudy has yet to prove himself at the NFL level. If I owned Sutton this wouldn't be as easy a decision as you make it out to be, just my .2.

I think a lot gets lost this time of year in regards to past production, due to rookie fever. Who's to say Jeudy isn't the next Corey Davis?
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Re: Courtland Sutton?

Postby Bronco Billy » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:34 am

Ice wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:22 am
I would trade Sutton away for Jeudy in a heartbeat. These two are not close.

Sutton has WR2 upside in fantasy. Jeudy has elite WR1 upside due to vastly superior route running.

Can't imagine too many Fantasy football players saying with a straight face they would rather have Sutton.
I would. When quality DBs like Chris Harris say Sutton is uncoverable in practice, I listen. Just because he suffered under Flacco’s refusal to throw into tight coverage (which is where Sutton wins) and that he couldn’t throw a ball within 5 yards of an elephant standing in the corner of the end zone on a fade route is not something anyone should hold against Sutton. There is absolutely no evidence right now that Jeudy is a better pro than Sutton. your bias not withstanding.


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