Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby CGW » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:15 am

Comparing William's to CEH is an awful take. Just because they had similar ypc in what was Clyde's rookie season? Eerily similar situation to those JT haters who were banging the drums for Wilkins taking over the job around week 10.

Theres a reason CEH had 217 touches to William's 57. It's not because they were equal talent wise.

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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby Jigga94 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:51 am

CGW wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:15 am Comparing William's to CEH is an awful take. Just because they had similar ypc in what was Clyde's rookie season? Eerily similar situation to those JT haters who were banging the drums for Wilkins taking over the job around week 10.

Theres a reason CEH had 217 touches to William's 57. It's not because they were equal talent wise.
I don't think anyone is saying they are on par talent wise. Just using the efficiency numbers (along with their touches) to show that Williams can be the RB2 in the offense and KC would be fine. It's the offense that boosted CEH's value in the first place, so why not Darrel?

It's weird to me that a lot of the CEH supporters seem to want more RB on the team lol I'd be ecstatic if Darrel was the RB2 and CEH gets an 80-20 workload

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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby Lumps » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:14 am

I really don't think KC is looking to add RBs at any substantial cost. They are bolstering their OL after the Super Bowl loss. That much is obvious. Would they sign AP (he's just a FA that popped in my head) at a minimum contract? Probably. They'd take any talent at a discount they could realistically cram in at any position of need. They wouldn't ignore that just to prove/play CEH. They won't use high draft capital either.
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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby murphysxm » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:17 am

Sriracha wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:23 pm
Just because CEH couldnt separate himself from Darrell as a rookie doesnt mean that he can’t in the future
a counterpoint is, if CEH can't separate from Darrelll Williams it could point to a problem.......
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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby bjd5211 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:33 am

Williams had 39 carries and 169 yards in 16 games, he's not a threat to CEH at all.

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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby hoos89 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:44 am

I believe touch count tells you all you need to know in terms of Williams v CEH. I'm guessing that CEH had disproportionately more of the important short yardage carries than Williams, which would also drag his average down. It also wouldn't surprise me to find that a higher proportion of Williams' carries came against backups after the game was in hand, or that with Williams in the game safeties stepped back even more than they usually do against Mahomes. You can't just look at efficiency numbers while ignoring touches and conclude that both RBs are equally as effective in the offense.
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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby Jigga94 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:56 am

hoos89 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:44 am I believe touch count tells you all you need to know in terms of Williams v CEH. I'm guessing that CEH had disproportionately more of the important short yardage carries than Williams, which would also drag his average down. It also wouldn't surprise me to find that a higher proportion of Williams' carries came against backups after the game was in hand, or that with Williams in the game safeties stepped back even more than they usually do against Mahomes. You can't just look at efficiency numbers while ignoring touches and conclude that both RBs are equally as effective in the offense.
Very true. So are you hoping KC brings in another RB to compete with CEH, or at least take more touches?

No one here is saying that they think Darrel is going to eat into CEH workload more or that he's going to press for the starting job. It's more of a, hey if Darrel can put up similar numbers in a backup role, why not keep it that way?

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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby killer_of_giants » Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:11 am

Jigga94 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:56 am It's more of a, hey if Darrel can put up similar numbers in a backup role, why not keep it that way?
because a better RB could have better numbers. it's not uncommon to see a change of pace RB have better stats than the starter because of the reasons given by hoos. add to that a longer season, and i wouldn't be confident with darrel williams and thompson as the only backups.

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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby kmbryant09 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:53 pm

Can't help but think CEH is one of the biggest buys in all of football right now.

+He's more than a year younger than Najee Harris
+Was on 16-game pace for 1,350 total yards, 45 catches and 6+ TDs as a rookie with no off-season because of COVID; while ceding nearly 9 touches/game to Le'Veon Bell who isn't expected back with the team
+KC significantly upgraded their O-Line by adding Orlando Brown (a plus LT), Joe Thuney (an elite Guard), Austin Blythe (a solid Center) and Kyle Long (retired as a plus Guard) while getting Laurent Duvernay-Tardif and Lucas Niang back after opting out of the 2020 season because of COVID
+LeSean Mccoy's Rookie Season w/ Andy Reid: 900 total yards, 40 catches, 4 TDs
+LeSean Mccoy's next 3 Seasons w/ Andy Reid: 1,500 total yards, 76 catches, 11 TDs (on average)
+Brian Westbrook's first 2 Seasons w/ Andy Reid: 600 total yards, 23 catches, 6 TDs (on average)
+Brian Westbook's next 5 Seasons w/ Andy Reid: 1,600 total yards, 71 catches, 11 TDs (on average)

I consistently see CEH ranked in the mid-to-low teens for both redraft and dynasty rankings. I understand he didn't quite live up to the lofty expectations in 2020, but he's still a very talented RB with 1st-round draft-capital, tied to the best QB, brilliant coach, and best offense in the league for the next 4 years. How is he not a consensus top10 RB for both redraft and dynasty? BUY BUY BUY!
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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:04 pm

kmbryant09 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:53 pm Can't help but think CEH is one of the biggest buys in all of football right now.

+He's more than a year younger than Najee Harris
+Was on 16-game pace for 1,350 total yards, 45 catches and 6+ TDs as a rookie with no off-season because of COVID; while ceding nearly 9 touches/game to Le'Veon Bell who isn't expected back with the team
+KC significantly upgraded their O-Line by adding Orlando Brown (a plus LT), Joe Thuney (an elite Guard), Austin Blythe (a solid Center) and Kyle Long (retired as a plus Guard) while getting Laurent Duvernay-Tardif and Lucas Niang back after opting out of the 2020 season because of COVID
+LeSean Mccoy's Rookie Season w/ Andy Reid: 900 total yards, 40 catches, 4 TDs
+LeSean Mccoy's next 3 Seasons w/ Andy Reid: 1,500 total yards, 76 catches, 11 TDs (on average)
+Brian Westbrook's first 2 Seasons w/ Andy Reid: 600 total yards, 23 catches, 6 TDs (on average)
+Brian Westbook's next 5 Seasons w/ Andy Reid: 1,600 total yards, 71 catches, 11 TDs (on average)

I consistently see CEH ranked in the mid-to-low teens for both redraft and dynasty rankings. I understand he didn't quite live up to the lofty expectations in 2020, but he's still a very talented RB with 1st-round draft-capital, tied to the best QB, brilliant coach, and best offense in the league for the next 4 years. How is he not a consensus top10 RB for both redraft and dynasty? BUY BUY BUY!
Agreed. The value pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

The only potential issue is the possibility that KC drafts somebody. I don’t think anybody is really worried about this, so it’s not like his price is going to go up- it’s not like James Robinson where you have to buy now if you want him or risk a post-draft price increase- so at this point it’s a little safer to wait a week and make sure.
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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby Ice » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:27 am

kmbryant09 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:53 pm Can't help but think CEH is one of the biggest buys in all of football right now.
I agree with you that he is a strong buy but don't see many owners selling him as his market sell value will still be sky high to current owners. I just don't see his owners ejecting unless they get a very good return as they are also reading and analyzing last year and projecting value going forward.

Redraft Mindsets are very strong with RB's as instant gratification is demanded by some so a few may jump ship this early in his career but it will/should be very few.
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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby murphysxm » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:48 am

Ice wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:27 am
kmbryant09 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:53 pm Can't help but think CEH is one of the biggest buys in all of football right now.
I agree with you that he is a strong buy but don't see many owners selling him as his market sell value will still be sky high to current owners. I just don't see his owners ejecting unless they get a very good return as they are also reading and analyzing last year and projecting value going forward.

Redraft Mindsets are very strong with RB's as instant gratification is demanded by some so a few may jump ship this early in his career but it will/should be very few.
I agree with this. I will also add that there is the ego factor that people that took him 1.01 don't want to admit it may have been the wrong decision, so will trade in that mindset.
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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby Ice » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:06 am

murphysxm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:48 am
Ice wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:27 am
kmbryant09 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:53 pm Can't help but think CEH is one of the biggest buys in all of football right now.
I agree with you that he is a strong buy but don't see many owners selling him as his market sell value will still be sky high to current owners. I just don't see his owners ejecting unless they get a very good return as they are also reading and analyzing last year and projecting value going forward.

Redraft Mindsets are very strong with RB's as instant gratification is demanded by some so a few may jump ship this early in his career but it will/should be very few.
I agree with this. I will also add that there is the ego factor that people that took him 1.01 don't want to admit it may have been the wrong decision, so will trade in that mindset.
No doubt but the reality is it's a bit early to even claim it is a wrong decision given the only rookie RB to be in the top 5 in fantasy was a FA pick up.

Through week 11, prior to his injury, CEH was a top 10 fantasy RB in points. There was some good and some not so good with every rookie RB outside of Robinson who was the beast rookie in 2020.
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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby CGW » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:31 am

Ice wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:06 am
murphysxm wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:48 am
Ice wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:27 am

I agree with you that he is a strong buy but don't see many owners selling him as his market sell value will still be sky high to current owners. I just don't see his owners ejecting unless they get a very good return as they are also reading and analyzing last year and projecting value going forward.

Redraft Mindsets are very strong with RB's as instant gratification is demanded by some so a few may jump ship this early in his career but it will/should be very few.
I agree with this. I will also add that there is the ego factor that people that took him 1.01 don't want to admit it may have been the wrong decision, so will trade in that mindset.
No doubt but the reality is it's a bit early to even claim it is a wrong decision given the only rookie RB to be in the top 5 in fantasy was a FA pick up.

Through week 11, prior to his injury, CEH was a top 10 fantasy RB in points. There was some good and some not so good with every rookie RB outside of Robinson who was the beast rookie in 2020.
I assume you are referring to average points per game? Otherwise, Taylor finished higher than JR in total points at #6 overall in PPR and #4 in standard. Semantics, as I agree Robinson had the best start to finish year.

CEH has been a strong buy since the Bell signing. He's moved several times in my leagues already, including once by myself (CEH+Diontae for Watson). It's likely his original owners aren't discounting, but I'd absolutely be asking.

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Re: Clyde Edwards-Helaire is your new 1.01

Postby MEuRaH » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:34 am

That revamped offensive line is going to be HUGE for CEH.

5 new starters and 2 new subs vs the 2020 season? I expect a step up in production.
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