Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby Sriracha » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:50 am

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:41 am
Sriracha wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:00 am Draft capital won't matter in SEA.

But Penny was really coming along last year before the injury, and was eating into Carson's workload.

Just to remind everyone what a special playmaker Penny is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4xcCpajGf4

SEA obviously wants to keep Carson, but they'll be just fine if he wants too much money.
Rashaad Penny to me is the poster child of how we don't know how a players work ethic will turn out in the NFL. He's got some of the quickest feet I've seen for a guy his size. Homerun speed. Great size. Natural pass catching skills. And in my opinion, his work ethic and mentality is complete and utter garbage. It's pretty clear that he doesn't hit the weights (poor bench press, zero muscular definition, always looks a bit tubby looking), is constantly overweight, and like others have said his mentality when running is a little strange at times and reports were his mentality playing through injuries was also poor. His pass blocking in college was an embarrassment, and in my opinion that is 100% work ethic related given he's at a size where it should be no issue. But look at what he was doing with in my opinion a dogshiit work ethic. A career 5.3 YPC. That's a testament to how naturally talented he is. It's depressing to think what could have been. Who knows, maybe ACL rehab has improved the areas he was deficient in. I'm hoping so even though I traded him away in most leagues by now. Will be looking to buy cheaply I think this offseason in hopes he turns it around, because imo the natural ability has always been there.
Agreed that he came into the league with work ethic concerns.. but I believe he was humbled by the benching. He looked much leaner in 2019 and all reports that off-season and in season mentioned his renewed focus and a change in his mentality. It's a bit difficult to separate actionable information from Pete Carrol and his 'rah rah' attitude; but Penny looks to have taken his rehab seriously and looks "amazing". Which would further add to the notion that the "light has turned on" for him.

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby nathanq42 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:51 am

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:41 am
Sriracha wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:00 am Draft capital won't matter in SEA.

But Penny was really coming along last year before the injury, and was eating into Carson's workload.

Just to remind everyone what a special playmaker Penny is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4xcCpajGf4

SEA obviously wants to keep Carson, but they'll be just fine if he wants too much money.
Rashaad Penny to me is the poster child of how we don't know how a players work ethic will turn out in the NFL. He's got some of the quickest feet I've seen for a guy his size. Homerun speed. Great size. Natural pass catching skills. And in my opinion, his work ethic and mentality is complete and utter garbage. It's pretty clear that he doesn't hit the weights (poor bench press, zero muscular definition, always a bit tubby looking), is constantly overweight, and like others have said his mentality when running is a little strange at times and reports were his mentality playing through injuries was also poor. His pass blocking in college was an embarrassment, and in my opinion that is 100% work ethic related given he's at a size where it should be no issue. But look at what he was doing with in my opinion a dogshiit work ethic. A career 5.3 YPC. That's a testament to how naturally talented he is. It's depressing to think what could have been. The irony is I thought since his brother was already in the NFL that Rashaad would already know the ropes and come in ready to go. Who knows, maybe ACL rehab has improved the areas he was deficient in. I'm hoping so even though I traded him away in most leagues by now. Will be looking to buy cheaply I think this offseason in hopes he turns it around, because imo the natural ability has always been there.
If anyone can bring out or put in an inner dog, its Carrol and the Seahawks. :pray: :pray: :pray: Please let Penny come back looking like 2014 2 Bell :pray: :pray: :pray:
12 Team 1 ppr .1 points per carry
Garbage
QB Jalen Hurts
RB A-train, D'Onta Foreman,Jahmyr Gibbs, JK Dobbins, Rashaad Penny, AJ Dillon, Jerrick McKinnon, Joshua Kelley, TDP, Chase Edmonds, JRob, Zamir White
WR CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, DJ Moore, Hollywood Brown, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham Junior, Marvin Jones, Braxton Berrios, Richie James
TE Dalton Kincaid, Foster Moreau
+2 Flex
1.02, 1.06

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby CGW » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:54 am

Sriracha wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:50 am
Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:41 am
Sriracha wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:00 am Draft capital won't matter in SEA.

But Penny was really coming along last year before the injury, and was eating into Carson's workload.

Just to remind everyone what a special playmaker Penny is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4xcCpajGf4

SEA obviously wants to keep Carson, but they'll be just fine if he wants too much money.
Rashaad Penny to me is the poster child of how we don't know how a players work ethic will turn out in the NFL. He's got some of the quickest feet I've seen for a guy his size. Homerun speed. Great size. Natural pass catching skills. And in my opinion, his work ethic and mentality is complete and utter garbage. It's pretty clear that he doesn't hit the weights (poor bench press, zero muscular definition, always looks a bit tubby looking), is constantly overweight, and like others have said his mentality when running is a little strange at times and reports were his mentality playing through injuries was also poor. His pass blocking in college was an embarrassment, and in my opinion that is 100% work ethic related given he's at a size where it should be no issue. But look at what he was doing with in my opinion a dogshiit work ethic. A career 5.3 YPC. That's a testament to how naturally talented he is. It's depressing to think what could have been. Who knows, maybe ACL rehab has improved the areas he was deficient in. I'm hoping so even though I traded him away in most leagues by now. Will be looking to buy cheaply I think this offseason in hopes he turns it around, because imo the natural ability has always been there.
Agreed that he came into the league with work ethic concerns.. but I believe he was humbled by the benching. He looked much leaner in 2019 and all reports that off-season and in season mentioned his renewed focus and a change in his mentality. It's a bit difficult to separate actionable information from Pete Carrol and his 'rah rah' attitude; but Penny looks to have taken his rehab seriously and looks "amazing". Which would further add to the notion that the "light has turned on" for him.
I'd take info from a hamster before I believed anything Pete Carrol said about anything.

I'm hopeful penny has turned his work ethic around though, and will be trying to buy in the offseason.

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby steelman » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

I think it would be easy to have terrible work ethic in college. Most of these guys are so naturally talented that they haven't had to work hard in life. Even in college, their god given ability is often all they need. On top of that, most players in college are still immature. I know I was in college and so were all my friends. We didn't want to do anything but drink and chase girls.

So it's easy to come into the NFL with that mindset and I imagine it would take some rough lessons before that mindset was adjusted.

I'm still hopeful of Penny and will be looking to buy him if the price is low

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby nathanq42 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:10 pm

steelman wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm I think it would be easy to have terrible work ethic in college. Most of these guys are so naturally talented that they haven't had to work hard in life. Even in college, their god given ability is often all they need. On top of that, most players in college are still immature. I know I was in college and so were all my friends. We didn't want to do anything but drink and chase girls.

So it's easy to come into the NFL with that mindset and I imagine it would take some rough lessons before that mindset was adjusted.

I'm still hopeful of Penny and will be looking to buy him if the price is low
I think the time to do it was this season a few weeks before your league's trade deadline. No one would have been getting hyped for his return, he is a total afterthought for my team as someone who really thinks he can make an impact going forward. If he pops off down the stretch for the hawks as a fresh body deep into a tough season, this offseason the hype will be crazy. obviously if he flops why bother with him? You can take a shot on him with a third, but I wouldnt keep my hopes up for him if he doesnt at least flash this season
12 Team 1 ppr .1 points per carry
Garbage
QB Jalen Hurts
RB A-train, D'Onta Foreman,Jahmyr Gibbs, JK Dobbins, Rashaad Penny, AJ Dillon, Jerrick McKinnon, Joshua Kelley, TDP, Chase Edmonds, JRob, Zamir White
WR CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, DJ Moore, Hollywood Brown, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham Junior, Marvin Jones, Braxton Berrios, Richie James
TE Dalton Kincaid, Foster Moreau
+2 Flex
1.02, 1.06

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby steelman » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:26 pm

nathanq42 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:10 pm
steelman wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm I think it would be easy to have terrible work ethic in college. Most of these guys are so naturally talented that they haven't had to work hard in life. Even in college, their god given ability is often all they need. On top of that, most players in college are still immature. I know I was in college and so were all my friends. We didn't want to do anything but drink and chase girls.

So it's easy to come into the NFL with that mindset and I imagine it would take some rough lessons before that mindset was adjusted.

I'm still hopeful of Penny and will be looking to buy him if the price is low
I think the time to do it was this season a few weeks before your league's trade deadline. No one would have been getting hyped for his return, he is a total afterthought for my team as someone who really thinks he can make an impact going forward. If he pops off down the stretch for the hawks as a fresh body deep into a tough season, this offseason the hype will be crazy. obviously if he flops why bother with him? You can take a shot on him with a third, but I wouldnt keep my hopes up for him if he doesnt at least flash this season
As a contending team, I wasn't interested in buying anything that wouldn't contribute to my playoff run. I do agree though that the time to buy Penny at the lowest possible price has passed already.

With that said, if the price is right, I'm buying in the off season. I don't even care what he does this season. This season is write off as far as I'm concerned. He's missed so much time already that it's hard to expect much right now.

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby mild » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:41 pm

Sriracha wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:50 am Agreed that he came into the league with work ethic concerns.. but I believe he was humbled by the benching. He looked much leaner in 2019 and all reports that off-season and in season mentioned his renewed focus and a change in his mentality. It's a bit difficult to separate actionable information from Pete Carrol and his 'rah rah' attitude; but Penny looks to have taken his rehab seriously and looks "amazing". Which would further add to the notion that the "light has turned on" for him.
I'm hopeful of this too. It's kind of hard to knock a college star entering the pros at age 21, being taken in the first round - and then finding out that it's a whole new ball game, and that your natural talent will no longer cut it. It looked to me like last year the light was starting to come on - both mentally and physically, he seemed more prepared. It's a sink-or-swim situation, I'm still hopeful he can swim. At the very least - I know that with his rookie contract running out - he will have to grow up quick, or risk not having a career.

I am sure that reality is not lost on him.
Cameron Giles wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:50 am I could see them bringing Carson back on the transition tag or a really cap friendly deal.
Are you sure they have any leverage to do that? He's an UFA - and this is Carson's one chance to get paid. Transition tag would not stop him from negotiating with other teams... from my perspective, they either offer him the proper bag - or he's gone to the highest bidder. (And I do not blame him - the man has more than earned it)
ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:05 am I think Carson is mostlikely retained, unless Penny shows a lot before the end of the year. I wonder what Penny's 5th year option costs.
I got you.
The team has all the leverage in these situations, being able to force the first-rounder to play five years, with the ability to then use a franchise tag and keep the player from freely negotiating for six or seven years. For first-round draft picks, fifth-year salaries are determined by initial draft position within the round. First-rounders drafted in the top 10 will earn salaries equal to the average of the top 10 at their respective positions. Those taken with Picks 11-32 in the first round will earn an average of the third- through the 25th-highest salaries at their respective position. Based on these numbers, it is maybe more beneficial, compensation-wise, for a running back to be selected in the top of the second round of the draft if he is not taken in the top 10 of the first round.
Regardless, though - Penny costs them a touch under 2 million for 2021... the very definition of cheap replacement-level talent. If they think he's capable of carrying the load (and this next stretch is his audition for that - showing them he's healthy and capable) then I suspect they will let Carson walk if the bidding goes over their heads.

To the poster that said he runs soft - I see that too. He does go down quite easily for a guy over 220. For me, the thing that made me buy him for an early 2nd last year was his pass catching. If he can truly put it together, he is the rare 220+ guy with homerun speed AND pass catching chops, playing in a juiced offense. His ceiling is super high... and his floor is that he's out of the league in 2-3 years.

Regardless, he's the sort of cheap/rebound asset that should be speculated on in dynasty.

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:48 pm

mild wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:41 pm

Are you sure they have any leverage to do that? He's an UFA - and this is Carson's one chance to get paid. Transition tag would not stop him from negotiating with other teams... from my perspective, they either offer him the proper bag - or he's gone to the highest bidder. (And I do not blame him - the man has more than earned it)
Transition tag was worth $8.4 million this year and Kenyan Drake signed it. Free agency usually isn't too kind to non-elite RBs.

But, I guess it depends on what Seattle is prioritizing. They don't have much cap space

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby ColdZealDonkeyStrike » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:34 pm

mild wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:41 pm Those taken with Picks 11-32 in the first round will earn an average of the third- through the 25th-highest salaries at their respective position.
Preciate it! He's for sure there in 2021, I'm just saying as a Penny owner, an ideal scenario is he's under contract 2 more years and Carson walks.
Quick estimate says his 5th year option would be around $6.75m based on what you shared. The Seahawks have to decide this off-season if they want to pick that up for 2022. That seems steep for what he's shown, but he could make their choice difficult with a nice run this season (showing health and tough running).
I think the decisions are linked; if they feel confident enough to pick up his option, they probably feel confident enough to let Carson walk.
CG made a good point about the transition tag. That seems like a smart move for Seattle. There's probably a higher risk someone signs Carson on that tag than compared to Drake's chances, but I'm not sure anyone will be backing up the truck for Carson given his age and injury history.
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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby Jigga94 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:45 pm

ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:34 pm
mild wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:41 pm Those taken with Picks 11-32 in the first round will earn an average of the third- through the 25th-highest salaries at their respective position.
Preciate it! He's for sure there in 2021, I'm just saying as a Penny owner, an ideal scenario is he's under contract 2 more years and Carson walks.
Quick estimate says his 5th year option would be around $6.75m based on what you shared. The Seahawks have to decide this off-season if they want to pick that up for 2022. That seems steep for what he's shown, but he could make their choice difficult with a nice run this season (showing health and tough running).
I think the decisions are linked; if they feel confident enough to pick up his option, they probably feel confident enough to let Carson walk.
CG made a good point about the transition tag. That seems like a smart move for Seattle. There's probably a higher risk someone signs Carson on that tag than compared to Drake's chances, but I'm not sure anyone will be backing up the truck for Carson given his age and injury history.
I could be mistaken, but I think a team can pick up the 5th option but it isn't guaranteed until sometime before the 5th season starts

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby Hottoddies » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:47 pm

Jigga94 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:45 pm
ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:34 pm
mild wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:41 pm Those taken with Picks 11-32 in the first round will earn an average of the third- through the 25th-highest salaries at their respective position.
Preciate it! He's for sure there in 2021, I'm just saying as a Penny owner, an ideal scenario is he's under contract 2 more years and Carson walks.
Quick estimate says his 5th year option would be around $6.75m based on what you shared. The Seahawks have to decide this off-season if they want to pick that up for 2022. That seems steep for what he's shown, but he could make their choice difficult with a nice run this season (showing health and tough running).
I think the decisions are linked; if they feel confident enough to pick up his option, they probably feel confident enough to let Carson walk.
CG made a good point about the transition tag. That seems like a smart move for Seattle. There's probably a higher risk someone signs Carson on that tag than compared to Drake's chances, but I'm not sure anyone will be backing up the truck for Carson given his age and injury history.
I could be mistaken, but I think a team can pick up the 5th option but it isn't guaranteed until sometime before the 5th season starts
This is true. It's only guaranteed in case of an injury.
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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby Mjvb5 » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:14 am

Hottoddies wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:47 pm
Jigga94 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:45 pm
ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:34 pm

Preciate it! He's for sure there in 2021, I'm just saying as a Penny owner, an ideal scenario is he's under contract 2 more years and Carson walks.
Quick estimate says his 5th year option would be around $6.75m based on what you shared. The Seahawks have to decide this off-season if they want to pick that up for 2022. That seems steep for what he's shown, but he could make their choice difficult with a nice run this season (showing health and tough running).
I think the decisions are linked; if they feel confident enough to pick up his option, they probably feel confident enough to let Carson walk.
CG made a good point about the transition tag. That seems like a smart move for Seattle. There's probably a higher risk someone signs Carson on that tag than compared to Drake's chances, but I'm not sure anyone will be backing up the truck for Carson given his age and injury history.
I could be mistaken, but I think a team can pick up the 5th option but it isn't guaranteed until sometime before the 5th season starts
This is true. It's only guaranteed in case of an injury.
Which for penny is by far the biggest knock against him for his entire career. Unless he shows something special to close the year and stays healthy I don't think they can pick it up. Its not a ton by nfl standards but it's still a good chunk of change for an rb.

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby mild » Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:28 pm

Mjvb5 wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:14 am Which for penny is by far the biggest knock against him for his entire career. Unless he shows something special to close the year and stays healthy I don't think they can pick it up. Its not a ton by nfl standards but it's still a good chunk of change for an rb.
Activated to play this weekend for the first time in a year, likely on a snap count - but still. Here's the window; I'm sure he knows what's at stake and what he needs to show.

If the playoffs started today, the Seahawks would draw WFT (aka the NFC East winner) spot. Presuming that the Seahawks could and would win that game, Rashaad Penny has five games starting from now to make his case. At the very least he's got 4... I don't see SEA missing the playoffs outright.

Happy 4k by the way :thumbup: :clap:

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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby nathanq42 » Mon May 03, 2021 8:20 am

5th year option gets declined... Not looking good... Going to be a big year for him. Make or break... Looking like it won't happen though
12 Team 1 ppr .1 points per carry
Garbage
QB Jalen Hurts
RB A-train, D'Onta Foreman,Jahmyr Gibbs, JK Dobbins, Rashaad Penny, AJ Dillon, Jerrick McKinnon, Joshua Kelley, TDP, Chase Edmonds, JRob, Zamir White
WR CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, DJ Moore, Hollywood Brown, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham Junior, Marvin Jones, Braxton Berrios, Richie James
TE Dalton Kincaid, Foster Moreau
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Re: Thoughts on Rashaad Penny?

Postby killer_of_giants » Mon May 03, 2021 8:30 am

nathanq42 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:20 am 5th year option gets declined... Not looking good... Going to be a big year for him. Make or break... Looking like it won't happen though
not unexpected given all the injuries. i don't think it means much, he's still the RB2 on that team and can play if he stays healthy.


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