Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby nathanq42 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:50 pm

remedy29 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:07 pm
nathanq42 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:59 pm This is why RBs shouldnt be paid big contracts, or selected with premium draft capital
What do you mean by premium draft capital? Top 15 rookie pick? If so, by a rebuilding team, like the Giants and Barkley, I agree.

What about early 2nd round by a good playoff bound team building their team with a strong run game? I think the Colts used their draft capital perfectly fine to draft Jonathan Taylor.

Regarding paying RBs, I really don't care what they make, as long as any players contract doesn't prevent teams from signing other players. When Taylor is ready for a contract, the Colts resign him, because he is a very good player.
I think you highlight what my response would be perfectly. It depends. I think as a blanket statement RB in the first ~20 picks is an absolute waste. For the past 7 years only 3 teams have made the Superbowl Spearheaded by a ferocious run game (hawks twice winning once, LA once and losing) and only the Rams spend significant capital and cap space on their guy, Hawks stole Beastmode, I cant speak on further back teams because I was quite young and wasn't as into football at the time. But point being looking at the last 7 Superbowls none of the teams had sunk high draft capital or lots of cap space into a RB.

Now you get into the last handful of picks in the first, if there is a really really talented guy that is head and shoulders above the rest at RB and that is the piece you need to really unlock the offense (you already have a top 10 Oline, solid to spectacular QB, Quality WRs that are reliable) go for it (especially in today's NFL where investing in defense outside of a couple of positions isn't as impactful because of the rule book and refs handcuffing defensive players).

As you highlighted, Colts taking JT was an amazing pick, it really was exactly what they needed, they had below average QB play but youre not getting a quality QB in the 2nd. They had this great Oline, and saw an opportunity to really maximize it at a reasonable cost. On the other side of the coin Dallas wasting a top 5 pick on Zeke was absolutely a waste, he was by in large a product of the Oline IMO (still very talented, but to be vaulted into the elite tier was the work of the Oline, he has been on a steady decline ever since the the Oline started to fade after his 3rd year and is now a TD dependent RB2). Contrasting the two scenarios, idk if the Colts could have drafted a guy that added more value to their team, JT is single handedly winning them games and masking a lot of shortcomings of the offense (passing attack lead by a below average-average QB and meh WRs). Dallas on the other hand could have had the best CB in the NFL who has been elite for 6 years now, and gotten comparable production out of other options at RB (possibly even better results had they taken Henry in the 2nd). I dont know the caliber of players taken around the top of the second in 2020 nor do I know the Colts well, but I know that Dallas could have gotten more value out of that draft than they did by not selecting Zeke, and not paying him mucho bucks to get an instant decline in production. I dont know if I could say that about the Colts not taking JT.

And dont even get me started on Barkley. You could have had a top tier CB in Ward/Alexander, top tier guard in Nelson, (assuming the correct dev like in BUF) a top tier QB in Allen, a top tier safety in Fitzpatrick/Derwin James. I said when Barkley was drafted, he would need to put up 3k all purpose yards to be worth the pick, and low and behold he hasnt done anything of note outside his first two seasons because it is nearly impossible for RBs to have longevity just due to the job they are required to perform.
12 Team 1 ppr .1 points per carry
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QB Jalen Hurts
RB A-train, D'Onta Foreman,Jahmyr Gibbs, JK Dobbins, Rashaad Penny, AJ Dillon, Jerrick McKinnon, Joshua Kelley, TDP, Chase Edmonds, JRob, Zamir White
WR CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, DJ Moore, Hollywood Brown, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham Junior, Marvin Jones, Braxton Berrios, Richie James
TE Dalton Kincaid, Foster Moreau
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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:57 pm

RBs on rookie deals are a good thing, but using Day 1 capital typically is not.

Paying RBs market value after their rookie deal is usually when the nightmare begins. Most are not worth it and highly replaceable. There's maybe 1-2 RBs in the league who have a noticeable impact on winning games.

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby Anteaters » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:07 pm

I'll vote yes for using high picks on RBs.

I vote a hard no on paying top dollar for a second contract for a RB. I'd rather trade him and start over with a new 4-5yr rookie contract.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, Tre Tucker, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
IR: Mike Williams (WR), Joey Bosa (DL)
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion

TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby mild » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:48 pm

Anteaters wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:07 pm I'll vote yes for using high picks on RBs.

I vote a hard no on paying top dollar for a second contract for a RB. I'd rather trade him and start over with a new 4-5yr rookie contract.
Just goes to show what an unfair position RB is to play these days. If CMC renamed himself "Ceebo McSamuel" and listed himself at WR there'd be nobody questioning his worth per a 2nd contract - and there's no doubt in my mind that CMC could play a hybrid slot WR role. Might be nice for him to not get hit by 300lb DL's every snap, too.

The NFL should throw RB's a bone and make their rookie contracts bigger, or shorter, or both. As it stands, it's the position that screws the player over the most - both monetarily, and from a short-and-long-term health perspective. Your prime is nearly always gone by the time it's time to get paid - if not even sooner.

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby Ice » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:00 pm

Anyone else find it odd how fast they moved him to IR? Maybe they are going to make a serious run at Watson next season and will try to move him as a minor salary offset.

I know they couldn't use short term IR again but it didn't look all that bad.

It is becoming apparent he is breaking down at this point. Way too many injuries close together.

Hmmmm
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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby honcho55 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:40 pm

mild wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:48 pm
Anteaters wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:07 pm I'll vote yes for using high picks on RBs.

I vote a hard no on paying top dollar for a second contract for a RB. I'd rather trade him and start over with a new 4-5yr rookie contract.
Just goes to show what an unfair position RB is to play these days. If CMC renamed himself "Ceebo McSamuel" and listed himself at WR there'd be nobody questioning his worth per a 2nd contract - and there's no doubt in my mind that CMC could play a hybrid slot WR role. Might be nice for him to not get hit by 300lb DL's every snap, too.

The NFL should throw RB's a bone and make their rookie contracts bigger, or shorter, or both. As it stands, it's the position that screws the player over the most - both monetarily, and from a short-and-long-term health perspective. Your prime is nearly always gone by the time it's time to get paid - if not even sooner.
Agree. Unsure the NFL has enough motivating factors to do this though.
main league, half PPR, all TDs 6, -3 for INT
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start 2SF, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2WRT

QB: T Lawrence, K Cousins, R Wilson, Z Wilson
RB: K Walker, T Ettiene, JK Dobbins, D Gore, J Hasty, D Johnson, L Rountree
WR: JJ, AJB, A Cooper, Juju, C Kirk, J Dotson, N Westbrook-Ikhine, I McKenzie
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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby FantasyFreak » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:52 pm

mild wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:48 pm
Anteaters wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:07 pm I'll vote yes for using high picks on RBs.

I vote a hard no on paying top dollar for a second contract for a RB. I'd rather trade him and start over with a new 4-5yr rookie contract.
Just goes to show what an unfair position RB is to play these days. If CMC renamed himself "Ceebo McSamuel" and listed himself at WR there'd be nobody questioning his worth per a 2nd contract - and there's no doubt in my mind that CMC could play a hybrid slot WR role. Might be nice for him to not get hit by 300lb DL's every snap, too.

The NFL should throw RB's a bone and make their rookie contracts bigger, or shorter, or both. As it stands, it's the position that screws the player over the most - both monetarily, and from a short-and-long-term health perspective. Your prime is nearly always gone by the time it's time to get paid - if not even sooner.
I've mentioned this before. Totally agree. It will come to a point where there won't be much talent at the position because players at a younger age will be looking to change positions, all the way from college, HS, and even earlier.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby mild » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:03 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:52 pm I've mentioned this before. Totally agree. It will come to a point where there won't be much talent at the position because players at a younger age will be looking to change positions, all the way from college, HS, and even earlier.
I fully agree with that, too - and I think it's already happening. We've had year-on-year-on-year banner years for a few drafts now with WR talent - because that's one of the best positions to play, if you're a freak athlete who wants a long career and a big second contract. If it's even a debate, you try to play WR.

Zero doubt in my mind that if it was incentivised the opposite way (which, of course, it never will be) some of the recent "bruiser" style WR's like AJ Brown and Deebo would give RB a shot.

(Deebo playing RB lately anyway... frankly, it makes me love him more... what a badass... of course, all this usage and grinding has now meant he's hurt again, oy vey... and therein lies the rub)

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby Orenthal Shames » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:18 pm

I got crushed on here a year ago nearly to the week for dealing CMC for DK straight up. Better a year early than a year too late.
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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby mild » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:35 pm

Orenthal Shames wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:18 pm I got crushed on here a year ago nearly to the week for dealing CMC for DK straight up. Better a year early than a year too late.
I dealt him 2 years ago for Saquon straight up, because I thought SB was more likely to have a body that would age better, whilst having athleticism that would hold on during said ageing.

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby Anteaters » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:14 pm

mild wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:48 pm
Anteaters wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:07 pm I'll vote yes for using high picks on RBs.

I vote a hard no on paying top dollar for a second contract for a RB. I'd rather trade him and start over with a new 4-5yr rookie contract.
Just goes to show what an unfair position RB is to play these days. If CMC renamed himself "Ceebo McSamuel" and listed himself at WR there'd be nobody questioning his worth per a 2nd contract - and there's no doubt in my mind that CMC could play a hybrid slot WR role. Might be nice for him to not get hit by 300lb DL's every snap, too.

The NFL should throw RB's a bone and make their rookie contracts bigger, or shorter, or both. As it stands, it's the position that screws the player over the most - both monetarily, and from a short-and-long-term health perspective. Your prime is nearly always gone by the time it's time to get paid - if not even sooner.
No disagreements. Especially about the "not get hit by 300lb DL's".

I'm not against RBs getting paid. I'm just against my teams locking up cap space by taking the enormous risk of paying so much for a position that often has declining returns by the middle of second contracts.
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, Tre Tucker, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
IR: Mike Williams (WR), Joey Bosa (DL)
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion

TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby Anteaters » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:15 pm

Orenthal Shames wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:18 pm I got crushed on here a year ago nearly to the week for dealing CMC for DK straight up. Better a year early than a year too late.
:clap:
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, Tre Tucker, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
IR: Mike Williams (WR), Joey Bosa (DL)
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion

TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby ThunderTung » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:01 am

Anteaters wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:14 pm
mild wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:48 pm
Anteaters wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:07 pm I'll vote yes for using high picks on RBs.

I vote a hard no on paying top dollar for a second contract for a RB. I'd rather trade him and start over with a new 4-5yr rookie contract.
Just goes to show what an unfair position RB is to play these days. If CMC renamed himself "Ceebo McSamuel" and listed himself at WR there'd be nobody questioning his worth per a 2nd contract - and there's no doubt in my mind that CMC could play a hybrid slot WR role. Might be nice for him to not get hit by 300lb DL's every snap, too.

The NFL should throw RB's a bone and make their rookie contracts bigger, or shorter, or both. As it stands, it's the position that screws the player over the most - both monetarily, and from a short-and-long-term health perspective. Your prime is nearly always gone by the time it's time to get paid - if not even sooner.
No disagreements. Especially about the "not get hit by 300lb DL's".

I'm not against RBs getting paid. I'm just against my teams locking up cap space by taking the enormous risk of paying so much for a position that often has declining returns by the middle of second contracts.
especially with how replaceable the position is. Very few RB's do what Derrick Henry does and carry an offense. Most of them are dime a dozen when it comes to real football impact. Just makes no sense tying up your resources like that when you can find a back thats just as effective on a rookie contract
12 man IDP 0.5 ppr

QB(1): Geno Smith
RB(2): ETN/Walker III
WR(2): Chase/Lamb
TE(1): Goedert
FLEX(2): Stevenson/Garrett Wilson
K: Mcpherson
DL(2): T. Walker/Vea
LB(2): D. Long/TJ Edwards
DB(2) Dugger/Moehrig
FLEX: Kenneth Murray
IR: J. Hicks/Milano/Marcus Jones
Bench:
QB: Mac Jones/Bryce Young
RB: Zeke/D. Harris
WR: N. Brown/Demario Douglas/Bobby Trees/Parker/Tyler Scott
TE: Bellinger/Schultz
DL: Barrett/J. Davis/Yannick/
LB: Milano/Edwards/K. Murray/J. Smith
DB: Mathieu/Jonothan Owens

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby murphysxm » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:40 am

I think it is unwise to give a 200 lb RB the workload the Panthers did and expect longevity
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts

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Re: Christian McCaffrey Thread: CMC Extension

Postby DJB » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:33 am

Love the talent but please people...STOP trading huge hauls for running backs!!!

I've said this for years and written articles on it. Lev Bell, Gordon, D Johnson...these guys at the top fall off a cliff quick.

Draft RB's and trade them for WR's when the time is right. Rinse repeat.
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