Brandin Cooks - What's Not To Love?

[Ice]

The fact is the Texans already received that 3rd round pick. Clowney is a good example of a player thinking he is worth more than he actually is and a team understanding his real value. Clowney also wanted 20 million plus just like Hopkins.

Hard to call the Texans dumb for building around their QB, O line, and Defense. It is has worked for the Patriots for decades. The Texans have infused speed into that concept.

Many factors go into building a team and one key component is the personalty of the players within the team concept.

One thing for certain, like the coach/GM or not, there is no question who is in charge. The Cooks deal BTW was solid. Very cap friendly contract for the 26 year old. On paper the Cooks deal is as solid or more so than what the Bills paid for Diggs.

Hopkins was turning into more of a Slot type in that offense. He is not to be confused with a fast WR. Cobb fits the slot mold perfectly. The Texans Outside WR's are now as comparable to any team in the league on the speed front and the O Line is up and coming. This team is built to run at will and throw it all over the yard.

That plan doesn't sound too bad for a team that while close has been just behind the big boys in the AFC.

Writing them off because they traded away a WR or now to try and compare all deals made to that one doesn't make any rational sense. They could take a step back after winning two division titles in a row but they are making moves to increase team speed and improve the running game as they build to protect their franchise QB in an effort to win a SB.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

Hyde did put up 1000 yards and helped their playoff run. Not terrible use of a 5th. Will they get a comp pick for losing him as a FA, too?

You're right, not a terrible return on a 5th. Just pointing out BOB has been giving up assets for veterans runners a lot more frequently than the league average (at least, that's how it seems).

[ericanadian]

I get the criticism but in real football all the speed in KC made Damien Williams look like an top tier RB.
How do you think a better RB like Johnson is going to do catching underneath routes with those burners on the field and probably more DB's than LB's

Hate it if you like but that HOU offense is going to scare most teams in the NFL.

Have to agree with this. The Texans are going to scare a lot of teams next season. They have a solid QB and now they have team speed. Sounds a bit like the Ravens and KC.

For all those that think the Texans coach is an idiot, remember when many thought he was nuts for trading Clowney to Seattle.

He got Mingo, Martin, and a 3rd rounder..What did Seattle get again..... a few games as Clowney didn't resign.

Hopkins is a good WR but highly doubt his stats will be as good this year. People might want to move past that move and wait and see. This Coach/GM makes bold moves and so far his track record isn't terrible.

Texans have won back to back division titles.

They have team speed, but the key guys have a very concerning history of fragility. You can’t just wave your hands and make that go away.

The Seahawks made it just as deep as the Texans did in the playoffs. A big part of why the Texans lost to the Chiefs, even after going up early, is that they couldn’t get much pressure on Mahomes. You don’t think Clowney could’ve helped with that?

[Ice]

I get the criticism but in real football all the speed in KC made Damien Williams look like an top tier RB.
How do you think a better RB like Johnson is going to do catching underneath routes with those burners on the field and probably more DB's than LB's

Hate it if you like but that HOU offense is going to scare most teams in the NFL.

Have to agree with this. The Texans are going to scare a lot of teams next season. They have a solid QB and now they have team speed. Sounds a bit like the Ravens and KC.

For all those that think the Texans coach is an idiot, remember when many thought he was nuts for trading Clowney to Seattle.

He got Mingo, Martin, and a 3rd rounder..What did Seattle get again..... a few games as Clowney didn't resign.

Hopkins is a good WR but highly doubt his stats will be as good this year. People might want to move past that move and wait and see. This Coach/GM makes bold moves and so far his track record isn't terrible.

Texans have won back to back division titles.

They have team speed, but the key guys have a very concerning history of fragility. You can’t just wave your hands and make that go away.

The Seahawks made it just as deep as the Texans did in the playoffs. A big part of why the Texans lost to the Chiefs, even after going up early, is that they couldn’t get much pressure on Mahomes. You don’t think Clowney could’ve helped with that?

Not much. Clowney is a talent that simply can't stay on the field and hasn't lived up to expectations. He is a Classic 4/3 DE at the NFL level and was miscast on the Texans who line up as a base 3/4 scheme set.

If he was so solid then no way the Seattle would let him just walk. They could have tagged him or paid him what Clowney thought he was worth.

This is now two teams that think Clowney is overrated. Could be something behind the scenes but blasting O'Brien without nearly all the facts is pretty funny to me.

So we like Seattle's Brain trust for maybe getting a compensatory pick next season but hate the Texans who get a pick this season in a strong draft all because the FF community think Hopkins is a god without knowing anything about him. The facts are Hopkins did produced on the field just like D. Johnson, Cooks, and even Clowney to a degree. Decisions in the NFL go way beyond single players and WR's simply are not the most important pieces to NFL teams. They are important but nothing like LT's as an example.

While I am not a huge Texans fan, I live here and there have been plenty of stories about Clowney and Hopkins. No one really missed Clowney. Too early to tell on Hopkins as that move was actually trading away a consistent producer.

[CGW]

I get the criticism but in real football all the speed in KC made Damien Williams look like an top tier RB.
How do you think a better RB like Johnson is going to do catching underneath routes with those burners on the field and probably more DB's than LB's

Hate it if you like but that HOU offense is going to scare most teams in the NFL.

Have to agree with this. The Texans are going to scare a lot of teams next season. They have a solid QB and now they have team speed. Sounds a bit like the Ravens and KC.

For all those that think the Texans coach is an idiot, remember when many thought he was nuts for trading Clowney to Seattle.

He got Mingo, Martin, and a 3rd rounder..What did Seattle get again..... a few games as Clowney didn't resign.

Hopkins is a good WR but highly doubt his stats will be as good this year. People might want to move past that move and wait and see. This Coach/GM makes bold moves and so far his track record isn't terrible.

Texans have won back to back division titles.

They have team speed, but the key guys have a very concerning history of fragility. You can’t just wave your hands and make that go away.

The Seahawks made it just as deep as the Texans did in the playoffs. A big part of why the Texans lost to the Chiefs, even after going up early, is that they couldn’t get much pressure on Mahomes. You don’t think Clowney could’ve helped with that?

If teams avoided players with injury history there wouldn't be a league. As easy as it is to focus on the injury history of cooks, he's literally only missed 8 games in his 5 year career of which 6 were an unlucky broken hand. I get the concussion worries, but I also think this is something he can do a better job of avoiding. He's really not a bad pickup for a mid/late 2nd in a year you are likely trying to win it all in a down division. We will see how this plays out over the next year or two, but there's a chance the Texans don't look so poorly in hindsight.

[ericanadian]

Have to agree with this. The Texans are going to scare a lot of teams next season. They have a solid QB and now they have team speed. Sounds a bit like the Ravens and KC.

For all those that think the Texans coach is an idiot, remember when many thought he was nuts for trading Clowney to Seattle.

He got Mingo, Martin, and a 3rd rounder..What did Seattle get again..... a few games as Clowney didn't resign.

Hopkins is a good WR but highly doubt his stats will be as good this year. People might want to move past that move and wait and see. This Coach/GM makes bold moves and so far his track record isn't terrible.

Texans have won back to back division titles.

They have team speed, but the key guys have a very concerning history of fragility. You can’t just wave your hands and make that go away.

The Seahawks made it just as deep as the Texans did in the playoffs. A big part of why the Texans lost to the Chiefs, even after going up early, is that they couldn’t get much pressure on Mahomes. You don’t think Clowney could’ve helped with that?

Not much. Clowney is a talent that simply can't stay on the field and hasn't lived up to expectations. He is a Classic 4/3 DE at the NFL level and was miscast on the Texans who line up as a base 3/4 scheme set.

If he was so solid then no way the Seattle would let him just walk. They could have tagged him or paid him what Clowney thought he was worth.

This is now two teams that think Clowney is overrated. Could be something behind the scenes but blasting O'Brien without nearly all the facts is pretty funny to me.

So we like Seattle's Brain trust for maybe getting a compensatory pick next season but hate the Texans who get a pick this season in a strong draft all because the FF community think Hopkins is a god without knowing anything about him. The facts are Hopkins did produced on the field just like D. Johnson, Cooks, and even Clowney to a degree. Decisions in the NFL go way beyond single players and WR's simply are not the most important pieces to NFL teams. They are important but nothing like LT's as an example.

While I am not a huge Texans fan, I live here and there have been plenty of stories about Clowney and Hopkins. No one really missed Clowney. Too early to tell on Hopkins as that move was actually trading away a consistent producer.

Houston was only able to manage one sack and 3 QB hits and 3 TFL against the Chiefs. Clowney got 1.5 sacks, 3 TFL and 3 QB hits in his two playoff games. Even miscast, I think he’s superior to who they replaced him with.

Seattle is letting him walk because he wants $20M/season and they have $12M in cap space and other needs. He probably isn’t worth $20M, but the fact that teams can’t give him a physical when he does have recent injury issues is certainly a factor here just as it is with guys like Cam Newton. I also wasn’t blasting O’Brien on this point only countering your point that this was somehow a win for O’Brien because he got two role players and a third for a guy that might have helped them hold on to the lead they had against KC. Pretty sure that third got them nothing in the playoffs and Mingo & Martin combined for 22 snaps and one tackle against the Chiefs.

I didn’t make any comments about Seattle’s decision making and I don’t think Hopkins is a god. I simply think he’s worth more than a 2nd round pick and he’s certainly worth more than Cooks. Maybe David Johnson will surprise and reset the clock to 2017. The Cooks pickup looks better if the season is delayed and he has more time to recover. He’s got a lot of talent and I’m not foolish enough to think Goff was able to maximize it given that he’s always struggle to maximize elite deep threats.

The top LT averages $16.5M a year, which would put them somewhere around 7th in the WR list. The top WR averages $22M a year. Tell me again how the NFL values LTs way more than WR.

[Ice]

They have team speed, but the key guys have a very concerning history of fragility. You can’t just wave your hands and make that go away.

The Seahawks made it just as deep as the Texans did in the playoffs. A big part of why the Texans lost to the Chiefs, even after going up early, is that they couldn’t get much pressure on Mahomes. You don’t think Clowney could’ve helped with that?

Not much. Clowney is a talent that simply can't stay on the field and hasn't lived up to expectations. He is a Classic 4/3 DE at the NFL level and was miscast on the Texans who line up as a base 3/4 scheme set.

If he was so solid then no way the Seattle would let him just walk. They could have tagged him or paid him what Clowney thought he was worth.

This is now two teams that think Clowney is overrated. Could be something behind the scenes but blasting O'Brien without nearly all the facts is pretty funny to me.

So we like Seattle's Brain trust for maybe getting a compensatory pick next season but hate the Texans who get a pick this season in a strong draft all because the FF community think Hopkins is a god without knowing anything about him. The facts are Hopkins did produced on the field just like D. Johnson, Cooks, and even Clowney to a degree. Decisions in the NFL go way beyond single players and WR's simply are not the most important pieces to NFL teams. They are important but nothing like LT's as an example.

While I am not a huge Texans fan, I live here and there have been plenty of stories about Clowney and Hopkins. No one really missed Clowney. Too early to tell on Hopkins as that move was actually trading away a consistent producer.

Houston was only able to manage one sack and 3 QB hits and 3 TFL against the Chiefs. Clowney got 1.5 sacks, 3 TFL and 3 QB hits in his two playoff games. Even miscast, I think he’s superior to who they replaced him with.

Seattle is letting him walk because he wants $20M/season and they have $12M in cap space and other needs. He probably isn’t worth $20M, but the fact that teams can’t give him a physical when he does have recent injury issues is certainly a factor here just as it is with guys like Cam Newton. I also wasn’t blasting O’Brien on this point only countering your point that this was somehow a win for O’Brien because he got two role players and a third for a guy that might have helped them hold on to the lead they had against KC. Pretty sure that third got them nothing in the playoffs and Mingo & Martin combined for 22 snaps and one tackle against the Chiefs.

I didn’t make any comments about Seattle’s decision making and I don’t think Hopkins is a god. I simply think he’s worth more than a 2nd round pick and he’s certainly worth more than Cooks. Maybe David Johnson will surprise and reset the clock to 2017. The Cooks pickup looks better if the season is delayed and he has more time to recover. He’s got a lot of talent and I’m not foolish enough to think Goff was able to maximize it given that he’s always struggle to maximize elite deep threats.

The top LT averages $16.5M a year, which would put them somewhere around 7th in the WR list. The top WR averages $22M a year. Tell me again how the NFL values LTs way more than WR.

Rather than argue with you about how much a top player is paid I will simply post a link with the Average NFL Salary Breakdown by position.

Go look at the LT average salary in this league.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/

The Texans are getting ready to make Tunsil the highest paid LT in the NFL. This is absolutely one of the hardest positions to fill in the NFL.

On Clowney, it's pretty obvious the Texans and now Seattle have issues of value based on his asking price. The Texans actually got 2 decent roster players and a 3rd for him. The Texans made a good move there, better than Seattle.

The Texans are simply structuring their contracts around the players that fit their go forward philosophy and that is a proven philosophy used by multiple teams. Watson will soon be a top 2 salary at his position and Tunsil the LT will be top at his. D line is already expensive with Watt.

Not saying Hopkins isn't good. Just don't think he is worth 20 million per year on the Texans and he will probably get that from the Cards or they will have the problem to deal with.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

Link for those on Twitter, Dr. David Chao expressed wonderfully why I hate the injury prone label. Fantasy players in general think they know a whole lot more about how an injury predisposes a player for future injury than they actually do.

[Jigga94]

Link for those on Twitter, Dr. David Chao expressed wonderfully why I hate the injury prone label. Fantasy players in general think they know a whole lot more about how an injury predisposes a player for future injury than they actually do.

Semi agree... But in the context of Cooks, aren't concussions more likely to reoccur once you suffer a few?

[PR0v3]

Link for those on Twitter, Dr. David Chao expressed wonderfully why I hate the injury prone label. Fantasy players in general think they know a whole lot more about how an injury predisposes a player for future injury than they actually do.

Semi agree... But in the context of Cooks, aren't concussions more likely to reoccur once you suffer a few?

Yes, however, there is growing evidence that concussions occur far more frequently than they are diagnosed, and that a high frequency of subconcussive hits accumulated over time can be just as bad, if not worse.

These guys are all suffering brain damage every single game, I think everyone knows that by now. Does the fact that Cooks has more “official” brain damage than most NFL players make him more at risk of retirement? Maybe, I guess, but “healthy” players seem to be retiring early now, too. That seemingly “healthy” player with no “official” brain damage that you trade Cooks for might be planning to retire first. The NFL isn’t going to force Cooks to retire.

[OhCruelestRanter]

Link for those on Twitter, Dr. David Chao expressed wonderfully why I hate the injury prone label. Fantasy players in general think they know a whole lot more about how an injury predisposes a player for future injury than they actually do.

I completely agree with this thread and with your point that us fantasy gamers think we know more about injuries than we do. I would only add that I don't think Dr. Chao's thread necessarily applies to concussions and he doesn't seem to mention them at all.

[Lotto4Life]

Link for those on Twitter, Dr. David Chao expressed wonderfully why I hate the injury prone label. Fantasy players in general think they know a whole lot more about how an injury predisposes a player for future injury than they actually do.

I completely agree with this thread and with your point that us fantasy gamers think we know more about injuries than we do. I would only add that I don't think Dr. Chao's thread necessarily applies to concussions and he doesn't seem to mention them at all.

I'd say we think we know more about most of the game than we actually do.

[FantasyFreak]

Link for those on Twitter, Dr. David Chao expressed wonderfully why I hate the injury prone label. Fantasy players in general think they know a whole lot more about how an injury predisposes a player for future injury than they actually do.

I completely agree with this thread and with your point that us fantasy gamers think we know more about injuries than we do. I would only add that I don't think Dr. Chao's thread necessarily applies to concussions and he doesn't seem to mention them at all.

I'd say we think we know more about most of the game than we actually do.

For sure. We "know" how much players should net in trades with other NFL GM's, we "know" how to scout better than the NFL for the most part, we "know" how players will be affected by off season moves and changing teams, and we certainly "know" how players should be deployed better than NFL coaches. Is there anything we don't "know"?

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

I'd say we think we know more about most of the game than we actually do.

true.
Also, I get that the Dr thread wasn't talking about concussions, and I wasn't very clear in the first post but it was more to the "everyone on the Texans will get hurt" theme I was responding to. I do think concussions are concerning, but apparently it's just common knowledge that his next one will make him a vegetable. I just don't think we need to run out to worst case assumption in this situation. We're not Drs, and we don't know how severe each concussion was. Cooks has missed 2 games in 5 years.

[honcho55]

Meh, I think it kinda goes without saying we are generally amateur at best for all this stuff. That doesn’t mean I can’t lower Cooks value purely due to concussions, based on what is admittedly incomplete knowledge. It’s what I got.

Now, I don’t blame anyone for not sharing that take either, but I’m not gonna dismiss it altogether, as is the case with a ton of players.

I’d argue Tua is dropping in the draft due to injury concern. I’d say a guy like guice is devalued due to injury concern. I’d say both cases the concern is warranted, as is it with Cooks. To each their own.