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Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:01 pm
by ninotoreS
Lord_Varys wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:08 am
Not happening at least until Hunt comes back.
I own Duke and don't know how to value him. People are excited about the new agent and the prospects of a trade... And also Duke is a tremendously talented running back.... However he's kinda a no one barring a lot of luck. Trying to think who I would trade him for straight up and am struggling.
Barring the unlikely possibility a Duke truther is willing to pay a decent price motivated purely by faith, Duke's a hold. His current market-value is completely strangled by situation rather than talent, so you stash and hope the situation changes.
Even Rosenhaus will have trouble forcing a trade before the season starts, but if any agent can do it, he's one of the best bets to pull it off.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:16 am
by ArrylT
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:25 am
by pvillebiker
Wow, sounding more and more like Duke is outta the dog pound sooner than later.
"How John Dorsey decides to play his hand in this situation will be the deciding factor, but Rosenhaus’ representation could speed up the process.
Expect Duke Johnson Jr to be wearing a different jersey when the season starts."
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:06 am
by FantasyFreak
Colts seem extremely unlikely. They love Mack, and drafted Hines who had over 60 catches last year. He'll just be disgruntled there, too. Does not seem like a Ballard move.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:58 am
by djeternal2
Unless Clev is getting a RB back Duke is going nowhere. It doesn't matter who Duke's agent is. I just looked at the Browns depth chart. Behind Chubb & Duke is Dontrell Hilliard, Trayone Gray, & D'Ernest Johnson. If you said "Who?" while reading that you are not alone.
Frankly Duke's best chance to get out will be next offseason. The trading deadline is Oct 29th 4p Eastern which is 2 days after week 7 for the Browns. Hunt won't even be eligible to come back yet and will most likely need a couple weeks to get back into football shape after being eligible to return. I get this is still the slow period for the NFL so people need to write about something but this is so not a story at all.
Then again it is the Browns so they could feel left out of being one of the worst run teams in the NFL and try and join the likes of the Giants, Jets, & Cardinals.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:52 pm
by ninotoreS
djeternal2 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:58 am
It doesn't matter who Duke's agent is.
Actually, it does. A super-agent with Rosenhaus's portfolio can jerk on strings that other agents can't.
Aside from that, other Rosenhaus clients have held out when their trade demand isn't granted, so now Cleveland might not have Duke Johnson available to play for them Week 1 whether or not they trade him.
As for the pieces behind Duke, the Browns coaching staff has already talked up Hilliard this offseason. RB is replaceable, dontchaknow.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:41 pm
by djeternal2
ninotoreS wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:52 pm
djeternal2 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:58 am
It doesn't matter who Duke's agent is.
Actually, it does. A super-agent with Rosenhaus's portfoloio can jerk on strings that other agents can't.
Aside from that, other Rosenhaus clients have held out when their trade demand isn't granted, so now Cleveland might not have Duke Johnson available to play for them Week 1 whether or not they trade him.
As for the pieces behind Duke, the Browns coaching staff has already talked up Hilliard this offseason. RB is replaceable, dontchaknow.
I still say the agent makes 0 difference. Duke holds out. Duke loses $$ AND has to pay Rosehaus who I'm sure doesn't come cheap. Duke then has to show up by week 10 just to have a year of accrual on his contract. Sorry but this is a dead period pipe dream. Duke has 0 leverage. I bet he doesn't hold out at all and is there for the start of camp. He's getting bad advice.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:08 pm
by ninotoreS
Duke fired his previous agent and hired Rosenhaus specifically for the purpose of getting traded, and Rosenhaus agreed to take him on specifically with the task of getting him traded, and considering you and I are just guys in armchairs, and those two are professionals in the business who are actually informed about what is and isn't doable, it appears irrational for you to argue it "makes zero difference".
As for bad advice, Duke already followed that from Campbell when he signed that extension with the Browns last offseason, after they spent a 35th pick on Chubb and had signed Hyde for significant money -- how much more hint did you need that you were surplus to Dorsey's plans, Duke? smh
Regardless, your point was that the Browns have no reason to trade Duke since they need him for depth at the most replaceable skill-position in the sport. And my point is that angle is meaningless if Duke simply refuses to play. Difference, made. You say Duke has no leverage, and that's just baloney. Refusing to play is always leverage.
I'll go ahead and plant a flag and say that if Duke does hold out, actually it's very likely he'll be traded quickly; at that point, Cleveland would have no use at all for a guy they've already telegraphed their desire to get rid of, so any compensation would become acceptable. But does Duke possess enough resolve to surrender some money to do that, and if so, can he and Rosenhaus convince Cleveland of that resolve before training-camp?
It's a staring contest between two parties that ultimately want the same thing. So it's not really a question of if, it's a question of when.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:40 pm
by Phaded
If Duke gets traded it will probably be to some team that nobody is talking about; like usual.
I would love to see this forum implode if he gets traded to say, the Chiefs.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:41 pm
by FantasyFreak
ninotoreS wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:08 pm
Duke fired his previous agent and hired Rosenhaus specifically for the purpose of getting traded, and Rosenhaus agreed to take him on specifically with the task of getting him traded, and considering you and I are just guys in armchairs, and those two are professionals in the business who are actually informed about what is and isn't doable, it appears irrational for you to argue it "makes zero difference".
As for bad advice, Duke already followed that from Campbell when he signed that extension with the Browns last offseason,
after they spent a 35th pick on Chubb and had signed Hyde for significant money -- how much more hint did you need that you were surplus to Dorsey's plans, Duke? smh
Regardless, your point was that the Browns have no reason to trade Duke since they need him for depth at the most replaceable skill-position in the sport.
And my point is that angle is meaningless if Duke simply refuses to play. Difference, made. You say Duke has no leverage, and that's just baloney. Refusing to play is always leverage.
I'll go ahead and plant a flag and say that if Duke does hold out, actually it's
very likely he'll be traded quickly; at that point, Cleveland would have no use at all for a guy they've already telegraphed their desire to get rid of, so any compensation would become acceptable. But does Duke possess enough resolve to surrender some money to do that, and if so, can he and Rosenhaus convince Cleveland of that resolve before training-camp?
It's a staring contest between two parties that ultimately want the same thing.
So it's not really a question of if, it's a question of when.
Pretty sure he won't get paid and actually get fined if he does this. He's not a premier player at the position. He's not even a starter. The Browns could fine him every day he doesn't show up. Considering he has a good contract, he'd probably be wise to do that, as opposed to not making money, and actually paying money back out of the little he has made in the NFL, seeing as the current contract he is under is probably the one that will make the majority of his life savings to this point.
The question of "if" or "when", which is still a question, is almost completely up to the Browns.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:42 pm
by djeternal2
ninotoreS wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:08 pm
Duke fired his previous agent and hired Rosenhaus specifically for the purpose of getting traded, and Rosenhaus agreed to take him on specifically with the task of getting him traded, and considering you and I are just guys in armchairs, and those two are professionals in the business who are actually informed about what is and isn't doable, it appears irrational for you to argue it "makes zero difference".
As for bad advice, Duke already followed that from Campbell when he signed that extension with the Browns last offseason,
after they spent a 35th pick on Chubb and had signed Hyde for significant money -- how much more hint did you need that you were surplus to Dorsey's plans, Duke? smh
Regardless, your point was that the Browns have no reason to trade Duke since they need him for depth at the most replaceable skill-position in the sport. And my point is that angle is meaningless if Duke simply refuses to play. Difference, made. You say Duke has no leverage, and that's just baloney. Refusing to play is always leverage.
I'll go ahead and plant a flag and say that if Duke does hold out, actually it's
very likely he'll be traded quickly; at that point, Cleveland would have no use at all for a guy they've already telegraphed their desire to get rid of, so any compensation would become acceptable. But does Duke possess enough resolve to surrender some money to do that, and if so, can he and Rosenhaus convince Cleveland of that resolve before training-camp?
It's a staring contest between two parties that ultimately want the same thing. So it's not really a question of if, it's a question of when.
Yep you're right Duke can just not show up. Problem with that is he's under contract for the next 3 years. It's not like Vincent Jackson or Bell situation where he could come back in week 10 and then is a FA after the year. He'll still be under contract with the Browns for 2 more years if he does that. So again where is Duke's leverage? Are you suggesting that Duke will hold out the next 3 years except showing up week 10 each year to gain a year on the NFL contract? If so that's not only bold but unprecedented. Again I think this is resolved in some way next offseason. Most likely Hunt is traded or let leave via FA and Duke is kept on a team friendly deal. But this year not a chance imo. The deadlines don't mesh.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:29 pm
by Valhalla
As a Viking fan I’d love to see Duke for Mattison and a pick, but I’m not sure the Vikings have the cap to pull it off without sending another player.
The Browns aren’t too hindered. They can trade Duke for any fair offer, and just go and pick up someone like Smallwood or Adams when they get cut. They’ll be relying primarily on Chubb and either of those two are a fine backup.
It would be cool to see Duke go back to Miami...
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:39 pm
by Vcize
FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:41 pm
ninotoreS wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:08 pm
Duke fired his previous agent and hired Rosenhaus specifically for the purpose of getting traded, and Rosenhaus agreed to take him on specifically with the task of getting him traded, and considering you and I are just guys in armchairs, and those two are professionals in the business who are actually informed about what is and isn't doable, it appears irrational for you to argue it "makes zero difference".
As for bad advice, Duke already followed that from Campbell when he signed that extension with the Browns last offseason,
after they spent a 35th pick on Chubb and had signed Hyde for significant money -- how much more hint did you need that you were surplus to Dorsey's plans, Duke? smh
Regardless, your point was that the Browns have no reason to trade Duke since they need him for depth at the most replaceable skill-position in the sport.
And my point is that angle is meaningless if Duke simply refuses to play. Difference, made. You say Duke has no leverage, and that's just baloney. Refusing to play is always leverage.
I'll go ahead and plant a flag and say that if Duke does hold out, actually it's
very likely he'll be traded quickly; at that point, Cleveland would have no use at all for a guy they've already telegraphed their desire to get rid of, so any compensation would become acceptable. But does Duke possess enough resolve to surrender some money to do that, and if so, can he and Rosenhaus convince Cleveland of that resolve before training-camp?
It's a staring contest between two parties that ultimately want the same thing.
So it's not really a question of if, it's a question of when.
Pretty sure he won't get paid and actually get fined if he does this. He's not a premier player at the position. He's not even a starter. The Browns could fine him every day he doesn't show up. Considering he has a good contract, he'd probably be wise to do that, as opposed to not making money, and actually paying money back out of the little he has made in the NFL, seeing as the current contract he is under is probably the one that will make the majority of his life savings to this point.
The question of "if" or "when", which is still a question, is almost completely up to the Browns.
And while I get the competitive nature, Duke is really kind of on a sweet spot. By the time this contract is over he will be too old to get a big deal anyway. So why not just ride out this contract and all those millions while getting limited touches and make good money without having to use a cane to walk when you're 35 like most RBs that make that much have to?
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:26 pm
by bjd5211
Duke is not in any position to be holding out and not get paid plus get fined on top of it, he will not hold out no matter how upset he is, Duke has zero leverage himself. Rosenhaus however might be able exert some leverage on the Browns via his other clients, which is probably why Duke went to him. Rosenhaus could threaten to keep some of his other clients away from the Browns in Free Agency or make things a lot more difficult in negotiations for any of his other clients already on the roster.
At the end of the day though I don't think Duke goes anywhere until of the season.
Re: Florio: Duke Johnson potentially to Tampa Bay
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:56 pm
by Vcize
bjd5211 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:26 pm
Duke is not in any position to be holding out and not get paid plus get fined on top of it, he will not hold out no matter how upset he is, Duke has zero leverage himself.
Rosenhaus however might be able exert some leverage on the Browns via his other clients, which is probably why Duke went to him. Rosenhaus could threaten to keep some of his other clients away from the Browns in Free Agency or make things a lot more difficult in negotiations for any of his other clients already on the roster.
At the end of the day though I don't think Duke goes anywhere until of the season.
Seems like a stretch. Then the Browns just go to those players and let them know Rosenhaus is putting their interests 2nd and using them as pawns to get a better deal for another client and they would all want to ditch him at that point.