Jonathan Taylor is your 1.01 now.

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
Cameron Giles
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 14243
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Jonathan Taylor is your 1.01 now.

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:10 pm

OhCruelestRanter wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:02 pm
Cameron Giles wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:51 pm
bjd5211 wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:37 pm Hollywood Brown was the first WR drafted in the NFL Draft last year, and one of only two in the 1st round, but nobody was taking him as the first WR in rookie drafts and he was frequently lasting until the 2nd round.
Bad example. The dynasty community was off on Brown and shouldn't have been. He was mocked in the 2nd round before and after the draft. Meanwhile, the NFL had Brown pegged as the top WR in the class, despite his injury.
That’s different though. The first player off his board at his position isn’t always the first player taken at that position in fantasy. Tavon Austin and Corey Coleman are other examples. It’s the just 1.01 overall that’s almost always the first player taken at his position.
I understand that. I'm not arguing that the 1st player taken in the draft has to be the 1.01. However, usually when an RB goes 1.01, he's almost always selected in the Top 5-10 of the real NFL Draft: Saquon, Fournette, Zeke, Gurley, Richardson, etc. It's just not aligning.

Keep in mind that I think Taylor is going to be a good RB, but has he really separated himself? If he has, then...why aren't NFL analysts and scouts confirming that?

FantasyFreak
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 27107
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:03 am

Re: Jonathan Taylor is your 1.01 now.

Postby FantasyFreak » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:23 pm

Cameron Giles wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:05 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:59 pm It a good example of going too far off the NFL draft. People were too down on Hollywood.

Hollywood is also a good example of not taking the guy higher just because he had the better draft capital, within reason. Taking myself for the example, I always had AJB over Hollywood, and despite Hollywood going ahead of AJB, the draft capital was good enough for AJB that I still went with the player who I liked more. However, when Hollywood fell to the mid 2nd in my 12 team SF, I traded back in because I felt my league was undervaluing a player that should no longer be on the board, so I made a move to get the pick.
I'm not saying that you take Denzel Mims over Jonathan Taylor because Mims went 1st round and Taylor went 2nd round. I'm merely saying that if there are 8-10 skill position players selected in the first 40-50 picks and Taylor is on the low end of them, then at some point, it should at least factor into evaluations and value.

Example, if Dobbins goes 2nd round and Taylor goes 2nd round, and there is no difference in situation, and we already know the talent level is very similar, though you can make a strong case that Dobbins is a more well-rounded RB, then why is Taylor the 1.01 and Dobbins is not?

It's just not adding up.
I ws trying to agree with you, in part. Taking AJ Brown over Hollywood wasn't a big deal, but Hollywood was still there at 2.08 and I moved back into the draft to get him, because I felt that slipping that far with the other talents/draft pedigree on the board was a bit egregious. I was trying to say there is some sort of balance between factoring those things in too much, and not enough, as I think you are.
"You're a creep. You got caught.." -Dan Patrick

User avatar
chalorpas
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby chalorpas » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 pm

If you want to rank Swift over Taylor then whatever, but J.K. Dobbins? I just can’t rank him ahead of those two or even Akers at this point. He was supposed to weigh 216 but came in at 209 and didn’t test at the combine? That has to push him down. He would have had to run like a 4.15 to get the same speed score as JT at that weight. Obviously landing spots will affect all the rankings so it will be interesting to see how that works out. I like Edwards-Helaire okay but he ran really slow for his size. It’s unimaginable to consider a scenario where he would be ranked ahead of Taylor, for me anyway.

FantasyFreak
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 27107
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:03 am

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby FantasyFreak » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:12 pm

chalorpas wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 pm If you want to rank Swift over Taylor then whatever, but J.K. Dobbins? I just can’t rank him ahead of those two or even Akers at this point. He was supposed to weigh 216 but came in at 209 and didn’t test at the combine? That has to push him down. He would have had to run like a 4.15 to get the same speed score as JT at that weight. Obviously landing spots will affect all the rankings so it will be interesting to see how that works out. I like Edwards-Helaire okay but he ran really slow for his size. It’s unimaginable to consider a scenario where he would be ranked ahead of Taylor, for me anyway.
Dobbins nor anyone else would have had a better speed score than Taylor. Dobbins was a 99th percentile athlete coming into college. There is so much evidence of his tested athleticism out there over the last 3 years it's really a non issue. The difference between Swift and Dobbins weight is a good meal and a pint or two. I don't see why it's an issue for anyone to have Dobbins over Swift, so won't fault Dobbins over Taylor, even if I don't agree with it.
"You're a creep. You got caught.." -Dan Patrick

Jigga94
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 16060
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:38 pm

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby Jigga94 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:39 am

FantasyFreak wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:12 pm
chalorpas wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 pm If you want to rank Swift over Taylor then whatever, but J.K. Dobbins? I just can’t rank him ahead of those two or even Akers at this point. He was supposed to weigh 216 but came in at 209 and didn’t test at the combine? That has to push him down. He would have had to run like a 4.15 to get the same speed score as JT at that weight. Obviously landing spots will affect all the rankings so it will be interesting to see how that works out. I like Edwards-Helaire okay but he ran really slow for his size. It’s unimaginable to consider a scenario where he would be ranked ahead of Taylor, for me anyway.
Dobbins nor anyone else would have had a better speed score than Taylor. Dobbins was a 99th percentile athlete coming into college. There is so much evidence of his tested athleticism out there over the last 3 years it's really a non issue. The difference between Swift and Dobbins weight is a good meal and a pint or two. I don't see why it's an issue for anyone to have Dobbins over Swift, so won't fault Dobbins over Taylor, even if I don't agree with it.
Honestly wouldn't argue with any of the 3 being someone's top RB. I couldn't put Akers at the top, but he's not far off either. At this point I'm going to stop banging the drum for JT and just hope he falls to me at 1.02. if not, it's a toss up on Dobbins and Swift

bjd5211
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5615
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:52 am

I wouldn't mind if he falls out of the consensus top 2, and becomes available at 3. My main league I own 1.01 and 1.03, so if any combination of Swift/Dobbins/Akers become the clear top 2 in most people's minds, I can get the top guy at 1 and my #1 RB (Taylor) at 3. This would give me an RB group of Barkley, Jacobs, Taylor and one of Swift/Dobbins/Akers going into our first year with two flexes and being able to start all 4 each week. I think the rebuild will be officially ruled complete haha.

Lord_Varys
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:19 am

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby Lord_Varys » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:32 am

The surest way to communicate that you are over thinking things and have a bad process is by saying you have Taylor outside your top 5. Frankly a ridiculous opinion.

User avatar
Valhalla
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5360
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:26 pm

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby Valhalla » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:30 am

Lord_Varys wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:32 am The surest way to communicate that you are over thinking things and have a bad process is by saying you have Taylor outside your top 5. Frankly a ridiculous opinion.
Eh...the surest way to communicate that you fall in with the echo chamber and simply make it louder is by not offering up an alternate, largely self-generated opinion. I'm not arguing for or against Taylor here as I'm getting a very late start into looking at these guys, but I respect independent thought threads like this.
All opinions have outside influence/bias, and maybe there's a part of Mike that just likes to differ from the masses so he may subconsciously seek/create more flaws in the most loved/hyped...but even if that's happening, it beats the many posts that just echo Echo ECHO EECHOOO what they hear from sources like Waldman or Kelley.
I bet Matt Kelley would LOVE to see his name alongside Matt Waldman.

OhCruelestRanter
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2732
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:33 pm

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:48 am

Valhalla wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:30 am
Lord_Varys wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:32 am The surest way to communicate that you are over thinking things and have a bad process is by saying you have Taylor outside your top 5. Frankly a ridiculous opinion.
Eh...the surest way to communicate that you fall in with the echo chamber and simply make it louder is by not offering up an alternate, largely self-generated opinion. I'm not arguing for or against Taylor here as I'm getting a very late start into looking at these guys, but I respect independent thought threads like this.
All opinions have outside influence/bias, and maybe there's a part of Mike that just likes to differ from the masses so he may subconsciously seek/create more flaws in the most loved/hyped...but even if that's happening, it beats the many posts that just echo Echo ECHO EECHOOO what they hear from sources like Waldman or Kelley.
I bet Matt Kelley would LOVE to see his name alongside Matt Waldman.
The idea that being wrong, for dumb reasons no less, is somehow better than agreeing with people is a wild one. It’s not even an echo chamber, there are plenty of people saying they prefer other RBs to Taylor.

This has become a more and more commonly used logical fallacy here. When a bunch of people disagree with you, and you aren’t capable of disputing their ideas, you just fire up an ad hominem “echo chamber” or “group think” retort, contributing nothing.
COOGAN IS A CHEATER AND A THIEF

MrUbuto
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3513
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 10:59 pm
Location: Vancouver, B.C.

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby MrUbuto » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:51 am

bjd5211 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:52 am I wouldn't mind if he falls out of the consensus top 2, and becomes available at 3. My main league I own 1.01 and 1.03, so if any combination of Swift/Dobbins/Akers become the clear top 2 in most people's minds, I can get the top guy at 1 and my #1 RB (Taylor) at 3. This would give me an RB group of Barkley, Jacobs, Taylor and one of Swift/Dobbins/Akers going into our first year with two flexes and being able to start all 4 each week. I think the rebuild will be officially ruled complete haha.
Wow you've had the 1.1 3 years in a row? I've been in the same league for 16 years and never had it ever.
QB - DWatson(HOU)Minshew(JAX)Darnold(NYJ)
RB -NChubb(CLE)DHenry(TEN)JTaylor(IND)Gurley(ATL)
WR -DHopkins(ARI)ACooper(DAL)CGodwin(TB)OBJ(CLE)
TE - HHenry(SD)DGoeddart(PHI)
K - Zurlien(LAR)Crosby(GB)
Def - ARI DAL
[rookie] Haskins(WAS)DSwift(DET)Jefferson(MIN)MHardman(KC)
7th pick in 2021

Rosters must always be 3qbs 4wrs 4rbs 2tes 2kickers 2dst and protected players don't take up a roster spot, but are only for rookie/2nd-year players that were drafted

User avatar
MEuRaH
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6777
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:57 pm

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby MEuRaH » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 am

Lord_Varys wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:32 am The surest way to communicate that you are over thinking things and have a bad process is by saying you have Taylor outside your top 5. Frankly a ridiculous opinion.
I want players who produce right away. Those who do increase in value. Those who do not decrease in value. I do not believe Taylor will produce right away, and I believe in 5 others who will. I'm not looking long term.

I drafted several copies of Kerryon Johnson over others like Guice Michel Penny etc because I was more confident in his ability to perform right away than the others. I was greatly concerned about his inability to take a hit and fall down properly and stay healthy over time, but immediate performance was the catalyst towards drafting him. I swapped him in every league almost immediately for something better. Meanwhile, I can purchase these other guys for peanuts if I want to.

I see something similar happening with JT. He's going to be valued at 1.01 or 1.02 for a long time. I think he can be had for a lot less by this time next year, so there's no way I feel comfortable using a top 5 pick on him this time around.

EDIT: It should be noted that I've had the most accurate RB analysis over the last 3-4 years.
ULTIMATE RB GURUs
2021 RB Injury Guru: abloom "Akers will suffer an ACL injury in the preseason and does not play during the season."
2021 RB Guru: qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj & McCafsteez -- Winners of the Antonio Gibson Wager!

REAL RB GURUs:
CubfanAA - Anteaters - Ice - JJRules - TheNuts - jtk1234 - Bronco Billy - YouMightDieTryin - hockeyBjj - honcho55 - murphysxm - Patsfan86 - jman3134

User avatar
kadun2
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:05 am

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby kadun2 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:56 am

bjd5211 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:52 am I wouldn't mind if he falls out of the consensus top 2, and becomes available at 3. My main league I own 1.01 and 1.03, so if any combination of Swift/Dobbins/Akers become the clear top 2 in most people's minds, I can get the top guy at 1 and my #1 RB (Taylor) at 3. This would give me an RB group of Barkley, Jacobs, Taylor and one of Swift/Dobbins/Akers going into our first year with two flexes and being able to start all 4 each week. I think the rebuild will be officially ruled complete haha.
That’s going to be a solid RB group for awhile👍

Ice
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6590
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 6:17 pm

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is...

Postby Ice » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:06 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:29 am
Ice wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:02 amI have Taylor in the 1.8 range and the 4th RB but don't really buy he is overrated.
Actually, this might be similar to how I have him. Most people have him as 1.01 or 1.02. I think 1.08 is reasonable (I haven't done my rankings yet) and to me a drop from a top 2 spot to top 8 is huge and the exact definition of overrated.

So we agree. It's just our definition of overrated that differs, lol.
I can buy that.

I do think his draft position is a bit overvalued due to the relative strength of the draft of the top 6 or so but not on board with an overrated player. Highly doubt, I will draft him in any league because he will simply go higher than my valuation at the top of the draft.

RB's have to be pretty rare talents for me to take them over WR's in fantasy. I don't see Taylor with enough rare skill sets; too many question marks IMO to warrant a pick too high with 3-4 really good WR's and RB's in this class. That said, he looks like a day 1 starter and if he goes to a great situation early I wouldn't blame anyone for pulling the trigger.

Agree though its semantics! :thumbup:
The Clock is Running and there are no Timeouts

OhCruelestRanter
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2732
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:33 pm

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:17 am

dlf_mikeh wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 amEDIT: It should be noted that I've had the most accurate RB analysis over the last 3-4 years.
Compared to who?
COOGAN IS A CHEATER AND A THIEF

bjd5211
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5615
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am

Re: The Most Over-Rated 2020 Rookie RB Is... Jonathan Taylor

Postby bjd5211 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:39 am

MrUbuto wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:51 am
bjd5211 wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:52 am I wouldn't mind if he falls out of the consensus top 2, and becomes available at 3. My main league I own 1.01 and 1.03, so if any combination of Swift/Dobbins/Akers become the clear top 2 in most people's minds, I can get the top guy at 1 and my #1 RB (Taylor) at 3. This would give me an RB group of Barkley, Jacobs, Taylor and one of Swift/Dobbins/Akers going into our first year with two flexes and being able to start all 4 each week. I think the rebuild will be officially ruled complete haha.
Wow you've had the 1.1 3 years in a row? I've been in the same league for 16 years and never had it ever.
Yup, although I only "earned" 1.03 this year, traded for 1.01 this year. Completely tore down the team a few years ago and stockpiled picks. Made a lot of trades, some good some bad, but overall happy where I've ended up.

1QB PPR

QB Lamar, Josh Allen
RB Barkley, Jacobs
WR Moore, Juju, Chark, N'Keal, Preston
TE Kittle, Hockenson, Goedert
1.01 and 1.03 which I plan on getting 2 more RBs as I mentioned.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], KingsKing and 40 guests