DJ Moore, WR, Carolina: Worried about Robby Anderson?

[Bot101]

Currently on pace for 99 receptions, 1300+ yards and 5 TDs... with a backup QB who throws a few hospital balls every week.

[FantasyFreak]

Currently on pace for 99 receptions, 1300+ yards and 5 TDs... with a backup QB who throws a few hospital balls every week.

Not bad for the 2nd best WR on the team.

[Jigga94]

Currently on pace for 99 receptions, 1300+ yards and 5 TDs... with a backup QB who throws a few hospital balls every week.

Honestly think he's better off without Cam...

[FantasyFreak]

Currently on pace for 99 receptions, 1300+ yards and 5 TDs... with a backup QB who throws a few hospital balls every week.

Honestly think he's better off without Cam...

I agree. Running QB, what do you expect? In all seriousness, though. I actually do agree.

[Jigga94]

Currently on pace for 99 receptions, 1300+ yards and 5 TDs... with a backup QB who throws a few hospital balls every week.

Honestly think he's better off without Cam...

I agree. Running QB, what do you expect? In all seriousness, though. I actually do agree.

Hahaha... I'd like to see the splits from last year. Cam vs no Cam... I'd bet DJM's numbers are close, if not in favor of no Cam. (Obviously this year there's not much to split)

[Kmani6]

I think the thing with Moore / Samuel and the missed opportunities / throws is how they are both utilized. Similar to the Evans / Godwin roles in Tampa (although they don't line up similarly), Moore wins on short / intermediate routes mostly over the middle of the field, while Samuel continues to beat defenders over the top.

Kyle Allen, and nearly every single NFL QB (starting or backup) can hit a high percentage of throws within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage. But there's only about a dozen NFL QBs that can be consistently accurate down the field.

So Moore's game & production aren't really affected by the poor QB play that Carolina has been handcuffed with. Meanwhile, Samuel's game & production have been negatively affected by the poor QB play.

That's not to say Moore can't continue his success if / when Carolina finds their next franchise QB - I think he's a phenomenal player that displays short-area burst and tremendous YAC ability that should translate regardless of his QB and offensive system.

That, and the fact DJ Moore is a better all round player. Moore got over the top this weekend for a long TD, too. I like Samuel, he's a decent WR, runs some nice routes, and can make some splash plays, but I never understood why people thought he was going to outproduce DJ Moore this year.

That's not what people were saying... The narrative about the 4 rounds later, was not that Curtis Samuel was a better player than DJ Moore, it was that Curtis Samuel at ADP ~95 was more value than DJ Moore at ~52 or 4 rounds earlier in Redraft. I vividly remember this narrative because I had a few debates about it. In hindsight with Cam out its easy to say these things, but with cam there I think the value argument would've had some more merit, as Kyle Allen can't throw a deep ball (not saying Cam can, but the narrative was based upon the idea that in the summer/offseason Cam was connecting deep with Curtis Samuel an awful lot), and instead relies heavily on Moore on shorter passes. It's not fair to turn the narrative around after knowing what we know about Cam being out and Kyle Allen in. No analyst would've kept that up if they knew the QB would have zero talent throwing deep. Obviously, Moore>Samuel, and the ADP of DJ Moore 4 and a half rounds over than Samuel, clearly shows how people felt, outside of a few outsiders..

[Krypto_King]

imagine people thinking cam newton was noticeably better for his wrs than kyle allen

[PR0v3]

imagine people thinking cam newton was noticeably better for his wrs than kyle allen

Yea he definitely was not. Kyle Allen isn’t particularly great for his WRs, but he’s definitely no Mariota. I think he might even be better than Newton for WRs. He’s got Moore as a back end WR1 and Samuel as a WR2/3 (and CMC has WR2 #s). That’s better than what a lot of QBs are doing

[Jigga94]

2018 - DJ Moore's rookie year: with Cam (14 games)
49 Rec / 688 Yards / 2 TD. 13 rushes 172 yards.

2018 - 2 games with Heinecke/Allen
6 Rec / 100 yards / 0 TD. 0 rushes


2019 - DJM with Cam (2 games)
16 / 165 / 0. 0 rushes

2019 - DJM with Allen (10 games)
58 / 715 / 4 TD (3 TD past 2 games). 4 rushes 30 yards

DJ Moore was pretty much perfectly at 50 yards per game his rookie year. He's averaged a TD per 8 games with Cam through both years, while he has a TD per 3 games. Could just be progression as his career goes; he had to score more eventually. His average in 2 games with a banged up Cam this year looked promising, but I'm not sure I'm falling for that small sample size. They also were playing behind against TB and LAR. His average yards per game haven't dipped a lot with Allen as the starter either this year and his Yards per Rec are a bit better at 12.3 vs. 10.3 with Cam

[Bot101]

I think the thing with Moore / Samuel and the missed opportunities / throws is how they are both utilized. Similar to the Evans / Godwin roles in Tampa (although they don't line up similarly), Moore wins on short / intermediate routes mostly over the middle of the field, while Samuel continues to beat defenders over the top.

Kyle Allen, and nearly every single NFL QB (starting or backup) can hit a high percentage of throws within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage. But there's only about a dozen NFL QBs that can be consistently accurate down the field.

So Moore's game & production aren't really affected by the poor QB play that Carolina has been handcuffed with. Meanwhile, Samuel's game & production have been negatively affected by the poor QB play.

That's not to say Moore can't continue his success if / when Carolina finds their next franchise QB - I think he's a phenomenal player that displays short-area burst and tremendous YAC ability that should translate regardless of his QB and offensive system.

That, and the fact DJ Moore is a better all round player. Moore got over the top this weekend for a long TD, too. I like Samuel, he's a decent WR, runs some nice routes, and can make some splash plays, but I never understood why people thought he was going to outproduce DJ Moore this year.

That's not what people were saying... The narrative about the 4 rounds later, was not that Curtis Samuel was a better player than DJ Moore, it was that Curtis Samuel at ADP ~95 was more value than DJ Moore at ~52 or 4 rounds earlier in Redraft. I vividly remember this narrative because I had a few debates about it. In hindsight with Cam out its easy to say these things, but with cam there I think the value argument would've had some more merit, as Kyle Allen can't throw a deep ball (not saying Cam can, but the narrative was based upon the idea that in the summer/offseason Cam was connecting deep with Curtis Samuel an awful lot), and instead relies heavily on Moore on shorter passes. It's not fair to turn the narrative around after knowing what we know about Cam being out and Kyle Allen in. No analyst would've kept that up if they knew the QB would have zero talent throwing deep. Obviously, Moore>Samuel, and the ADP of DJ Moore 4 and a half rounds over than Samuel, clearly shows how people felt, outside of a few outsiders..

This is partially true and also false. I follow several dynasty and redraft people on Twitter and the podcasts they host or the pods they make guest appearances on. And the narrative was yes the value was on Samuel's side but that he was also probably better than Moore and the 1A on that offense. For example Matt Harmon pointed to each of their 2018 reception perception numbers to point out that Samuel was better and during training camp he kept insisting on that narrative.

[hoos89]

Honestly think he's better off without Cam...

I agree. Running QB, what do you expect? In all seriousness, though. I actually do agree.

Hahaha... I'd like to see the splits from last year. Cam vs no Cam... I'd bet DJM's numbers are close, if not in favor of no Cam. (Obviously this year there's not much to split)

DJ Moore did very well last season in the short window where he started and Cam was reasonably healthy but his numbers dipped after Cam's shoulder went out.

That's not what people were saying... The narrative about the 4 rounds later, was not that Curtis Samuel was a better player than DJ Moore, it was that Curtis Samuel at ADP ~95 was more value than DJ Moore at ~52 or 4 rounds earlier in Redraft. I vividly remember this narrative because I had a few debates about it. In hindsight with Cam out its easy to say these things, but with cam there I think the value argument would've had some more merit, as Kyle Allen can't throw a deep ball (not saying Cam can, but the narrative was based upon the idea that in the summer/offseason Cam was connecting deep with Curtis Samuel an awful lot), and instead relies heavily on Moore on shorter passes. It's not fair to turn the narrative around after knowing what we know about Cam being out and Kyle Allen in. No analyst would've kept that up if they knew the QB would have zero talent throwing deep. Obviously, Moore>Samuel, and the ADP of DJ Moore 4 and a half rounds over than Samuel, clearly shows how people felt, outside of a few outsiders..

Moore averaged 12 targets in the 2 games Cam played.

[Kmani6]

I never said he didn’t average 12 targets per game with cam there I’m just saying what the general narrative was. Sure, you can find specific analysts that said Moore was worse than Samuel, but the majority by far was just saying the value at 4.5 rounds later in redraft was better that’s all. So my points are perfectly valid. I have tried to acquire Moore a ton of times and tried to sell Samuel many this off-season/season.

[Kmani6]

A 4.5 round difference means you are perceived as a much better as a player so clearly that’s what people were thinking at the time.... the point was at the DJ Moore pick you were looking at possibly Godwin/golladay/mark ingram type players and and at 95 or whatever you were getting value with Samuel. Number one thing people don’t get is that tons of players are very talented, the point is to find gaps where you disagree on the talent vs the ADP and then draft those guys, which was the argument for Samuel. Also, the argument wasn’t cam was worse than kyle Allen because no one knew Allen was going to start the whole season, the point was it seemed that cam was developing a very good deep connection with Samuel, and that his connection with Moore was worse. Once again not saying I agree just saying it how it was at that time

[Jigga94]

I literally posted the stats above haha

[hoos89]

I literally posted the stats above haha

Those are a bit misleading though: DJ Moore hardly played the first few games of last season and didn't start until midway through the season, and the last couple games Cam played he was terrible due to injury. There's only a few games of overlap where DJ Moore started and Cam wasn't terrible. Also it's always a bit iffy to compare a player's stats from his rookie year against any other year. Moore is just better this year than last, so it's a bit problematic to use his stats from last year to determine whether he's better off with Cam even without the other considerations.