Stefon Diggs Thread: Traded to Buffalo!

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rubber_duck
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Re: Diggs value

Postby rubber_duck » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:31 pm


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Quint
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Re: Diggs value

Postby Quint » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:42 pm

SELL HIGH. He did the same thing last year. Started fast and ended slow. I'd move him for a 2nd rounder. I highly doubt someone would give up a 1st. Thielen is the dude I want to own. He's a target monster.

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Re: Diggs value

Postby Mefisto » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:55 pm

What talent does he have? Reljac, I'm sorry but you either don't watch him play or don't see talent in anything other than size/speed freaks. He regularly beats top corners on his routes. Even as a rookie he was making CB's look foolish with his route running. If you watched Monday's game he clearly displayed body control that is some of the best in the league. I think he made at least 2 contested catches on the sidelines, being fully aware of where the line was and keeping his feet in bounds.

Quint... see comments regarding Reljac's arguments. There is more to football than box scores.
12 Team Non-PPR league. 2QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1RB/WR, 1TE, 1K, 1DL, 1LB, 1DB, 2DL/LB/DB
QB: Brady, Stafford, Mariota, Tannehill
RB: L. Miller, A. Collins, K. Drake, R. Freeman, K. Dixon, D. Foreman, D. Murray, J. Allen, Gore
WR: Hopkins, ARob, S. Diggs, D. Parker, M. Lee, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, D. Pettis, Callaway
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner T. Edmunds
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins
2017 Superbowl Champion

10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Luck, Goff, Trubisky, Prescott, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Mixon, Barkley, D. Foreman
WR: Kupp, Cooper, C. Davis, Parker, T. Lockett, Kupp, W. Fuller, Sutton, John Brown, Callaway
TE: Kelce, Burton
DL: D. Lawrence, Ogunjobi, Ansah, M. Davenport
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, T. Edmunds, J. Smith, R. Foster
DB: Clinton-Dix, D. James, T. Edmunds, M. Jenkins

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Re: Diggs value

Postby Mefisto » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:03 pm

I remember seeing video somewhere of Diggs juking I think it was Talib out of his shoes basically, as well as other examples of his route running, but am struggling to find it right now.
12 Team Non-PPR league. 2QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1RB/WR, 1TE, 1K, 1DL, 1LB, 1DB, 2DL/LB/DB
QB: Brady, Stafford, Mariota, Tannehill
RB: L. Miller, A. Collins, K. Drake, R. Freeman, K. Dixon, D. Foreman, D. Murray, J. Allen, Gore
WR: Hopkins, ARob, S. Diggs, D. Parker, M. Lee, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, D. Pettis, Callaway
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner T. Edmunds
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins
2017 Superbowl Champion

10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Luck, Goff, Trubisky, Prescott, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Mixon, Barkley, D. Foreman
WR: Kupp, Cooper, C. Davis, Parker, T. Lockett, Kupp, W. Fuller, Sutton, John Brown, Callaway
TE: Kelce, Burton
DL: D. Lawrence, Ogunjobi, Ansah, M. Davenport
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, T. Edmunds, J. Smith, R. Foster
DB: Clinton-Dix, D. James, T. Edmunds, M. Jenkins

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dm1129
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Re: Diggs value

Postby dm1129 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:03 pm

Reljac wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:06 pm
Oh lord, devolving into the Melvin Gordon thread, where we just reference "talent" and blame the rest of the offense.
Not at all. Diggs started off last season with over 300 yards receiving in the first three games after an extremely impressive rookie season. The MIN O-line became decimated by injury. It was truly a mess to watch, it was that bad. Norv Turner did not adjust his vertical offense and Bradford was absolutely getting killed every week. Turner resigned, and in mid season MIN began adopting a new offensive scheme. That is called context.

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rubber_duck
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Re: Diggs value

Postby rubber_duck » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Obviously much of Diggs' short term value will depend upon how effective the rebuilt offensive line performs. Week 1 was a nice warm-up game to get things rolling, but it didn't look like much of a test.

Week 2 the game is at Pittsburgh. This should be a nice early indicator of what is to come. The NFL scheduling worked out very nicely for Minnesota here, and for us to make a decent value call going forward.

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Reljac
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Re: Diggs value

Postby Reljac » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:43 pm

dm1129 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:03 pm
Not at all. Diggs started off last season with over 300 yards receiving in the first three games after an extremely impressive rookie season. The MIN O-line became decimated by injury. It was truly a mess to watch, it was that bad. Norv Turner did not adjust his vertical offense and Bradford was absolutely getting killed every week. Turner resigned, and in mid season MIN began adopting a new offensive scheme. That is called context.
Interesting theory or narrative, but it completely fails to address why the Vikings offense was more productive in weeks 4-7 against tougher defenses when Diggs missed a game and otherwise had 65 yards. Andre Smith & Matt Kahlil were injured for the better performances in weeks 4-7. Mike Harris missed all games including the early weeks...

Also Diggs had a huge game in 9 prior to Jake Long's injury or Norv Turner being fired.

Don't forget that Diggs first two games last year occured against the #30, #31 pass defenses. I'm sure New Orleans will be near the bottom this year and last year they were the league worst.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz
RB: David Johnson, N Chubb, D Guice, I Crowell, A Jones, P Barber
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel, T Taylor, C Williams
TE: T Burton, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2019: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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Re: Diggs value

Postby IBall2 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:41 pm

Quint wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:42 pm
SELL HIGH. He did the same thing last year. Started fast and ended slow. I'd move him for a 2nd rounder. I highly doubt someone would give up a 1st. Thielen is the dude I want to own. He's a target monster.
Which 2017 rookie consensus second round players would you trade straight up to get with your share of Diggs? I'm curious because this is definitely not the norm.

Right now the average second round 2017 rookie consists of the follow in a 12 team league:
D. Njoku
Z. Jones
J. Smith-Schuster
C. Samuel
D. Foreman
M. Mack
K. Golladay
Jamaal Williams
Joe Williams
C. Godwin
C. Kupp
J. Conner

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Re: Diggs value

Postby FiremanEd » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:00 pm

I'm not too worried about what he's done in the past because it is all about what is this player going to do for me going forward. What i see is a 23 year old that has shown big time ability, albeit on a less consistent basis than some would like (regardless of reason), that has a lot of the traits that i like and want in a prospect. He showed he had ability from the earliest stages of his introduction to the NFL, including the ability to post a #13 PPG average as a 22 year old sophomore. I think that he has additional room for growth, as does the Vikings offense as a whole compared to what they were last season, all of which should in theory equal more fantasy output. For these reasons, especially my belief in his talent based on what i've seen with my eyes, are the reasons I am a believer and fan of Stefon Diggs.

If people want to make conclusive decisions about him going forward based on his rookie and sophomore seasons, both of which showed a lot of potential and upside even if you just box score scout, then by all means. In the end, they could be correct for all we know. It just seems like a shallow eyed approach to take based on what i've seen. Granted, every player has their risk/reward decision based on the going rate for them in your league(s), and like any young player after a big game (let along prime time game), the cost is no doubt at a higher point than it would have been days prior. Sometimes that cost is too steep and you're best off passing or waiting.

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Re: Diggs value

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:28 pm

Reljac wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:25 pm
Using the word talent is not context, it's generalization unless you put substance around it. So what talent does he have that is significantly better than his peers, can be demonstratively proven as fact, and will allow him to beat the top CBs in the league to establish himself as a player that would actually be worth multiple 1sts?
This thread is full of you grasping for straw after straw. Diggs is already one of the best route runners in the league and beats CB's at an elite level. He has beaten pro bowl corners, elite defenses and made jokes out of the bad defenses, as he should. What more does he have to do on tape? The crazy part is that he can still get better. He's 23 years old.

Image

He was well above the league average in each category of success rate against opposing DB's.

Is Diggs worth two firsts? Context should be applied. Would I trade two late firsts for Diggs? Absolutely. Would I trade two mid-firsts for Diggs? I think so. Two early firsts? That's probably pushing it.

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Re: Diggs value

Postby SkinZ187 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:45 pm

would you trade diggs for corey davis + 2018 1st (should without a doubt be top 3).... because thats what im faced with right now.

it might seem like a no brainer to some, but im having a hard time pulling the trigger.

am i "to high" on diggs?

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Re: Diggs value

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:47 pm

SkinZ187 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:45 pm
would you trade diggs for corey davis + 2018 1st (should without a doubt be top 3).... because thats what im faced with right now.

it might seem like a no brainer to some, but im having a hard time pulling the trigger.

am i "to high" on diggs?
You're getting great value with Davis/early first. Take it.

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Re: Diggs value

Postby Mefisto » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:49 pm

Even loving Diggs as much as I do I think that's a great deal for you
12 Team Non-PPR league. 2QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1RB/WR, 1TE, 1K, 1DL, 1LB, 1DB, 2DL/LB/DB
QB: Brady, Stafford, Mariota, Tannehill
RB: L. Miller, A. Collins, K. Drake, R. Freeman, K. Dixon, D. Foreman, D. Murray, J. Allen, Gore
WR: Hopkins, ARob, S. Diggs, D. Parker, M. Lee, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, D. Pettis, Callaway
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner T. Edmunds
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins
2017 Superbowl Champion

10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Luck, Goff, Trubisky, Prescott, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Mixon, Barkley, D. Foreman
WR: Kupp, Cooper, C. Davis, Parker, T. Lockett, Kupp, W. Fuller, Sutton, John Brown, Callaway
TE: Kelce, Burton
DL: D. Lawrence, Ogunjobi, Ansah, M. Davenport
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, T. Edmunds, J. Smith, R. Foster
DB: Clinton-Dix, D. James, T. Edmunds, M. Jenkins

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rubber_duck
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Re: Diggs value

Postby rubber_duck » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:14 pm

Agree. A pair of top 5 first round picks should be an accept.

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dm1129
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Re: Diggs value

Postby dm1129 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:16 pm

Reljac wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:43 pm
dm1129 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:03 pm
Not at all. Diggs started off last season with over 300 yards receiving in the first three games after an extremely impressive rookie season. The MIN O-line became decimated by injury. It was truly a mess to watch, it was that bad. Norv Turner did not adjust his vertical offense and Bradford was absolutely getting killed every week. Turner resigned, and in mid season MIN began adopting a new offensive scheme. That is called context.
Interesting theory or narrative, but it completely fails to address why the Vikings offense was more productive in weeks 4-7 against tougher defenses when Diggs missed a game and otherwise had 65 yards. Andre Smith & Matt Kahlil were injured for the better performances in weeks 4-7. Mike Harris missed all games including the early weeks...

Also Diggs had a huge game in 9 prior to Jake Long's injury or Norv Turner being fired.

Don't forget that Diggs first two games last year occured against the #30, #31 pass defenses. I'm sure New Orleans will be near the bottom this year and last year they were the league worst.
It is not a theory or a narrative, it is the context in which Diggs played last season. The reality is the truth is on the field, and quite honestly, easy to see.


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