TE an afterthought? Tight End Premium

[_yeti]

Okay, I am admittedly a former TE. Some people say I overdraft TEs. But here is the deal, we heard it a ton in Gronk's hayday, the drop from elite fantasy producer to worthless is steep and fast at TE, they are hard to predict, they have a late breakout age, and the good ones stay around a LONG while, well into their 30s (unlike RBs)...

So why are they treated like some useless afterthought?

Now of course we all like to own a Kelce, Kittle, Ertz, etc., and I see trades for them go off, but it is still a far 3rd to RB and WR in how people value positions, and seems to be behind QB in 1QB leagues too (outside of the top 3 TEs).

TE in the real world has to deal with blocking NFL monster DEs and still trying to put up numbers in the pass game. It's just undervalued.

Well, so two years ago we started a friends dynasty, there is a lot of scoring tweaks (DT premium, bonuses for DLs, first down bonuses, 6 pt QB TDs, full ppr, etc.).

But the kicker is that the league is 2ppr for TEs. When you look at the stat breakdowns that put Kelce at overall all-position 2019 scorer #9, Ertz at #17, Waller at #20, Kittle at #24 (missed 2 games).

Thing is, they are STILL undervalued. I can't get proper trade value for them and actually got angry at my leaguemates during the startup... wondering in my head, "will they start drafting TE?! Wtf? Well if they don't I will keep drafting them!" But I was skipping value at other positions bc they were leaving TE on the board. Now TE is the strength of my team (and I won the 'ship year 1), but I still can't get proper trade value for them for the league settings.

This year's Super Bowl featured the two top TEs on opposing teams, coincidence I ask? No... I know it had A WHOLE LOT more to do with the 49ers defense and with Mahomes, but Kelce and Kittle are massive parts of those teams.

Anybody else play TE premium? What do we gotta do to get the fantasy community to come around to showing TEs love?

[FantasyFreak]

Almost exclusively SF/TE premium for me.

[_yeti]

I just got this offer from a contending team (mind you, 2ppr for TEs, and DT premium, start 2DLs, 2LBs, 2DBs, 1IDP Flex):

Was offered Derrick Henry
for
Kittle, Quinnen Williams

[DLF3000]

I love TE too - always been my favorite offensive position in football because of that truly versatile receiving-blocking skill set and role they typically have.

As for TE value, including in TE premium (my league is 1.5 PPR TE premium, the more common premium TE scoring format), you're right, it's always lower than you expect when it comes to trades.

I think it may start with the marketing in NFL football itself focuses more on QB, RB, WR, which are typically deeper in name-brand talent. Like you said, there's very few name brands at TE - just the nature of the beast.

But the good news from a FF starting lineup perspective is, you can always fill in a decent TE starter because there's plenty of "good enough" ones out there every year, especially these days, where some teams seem to pass almost every down.

Back on trade value - shopped Mark Andrews last year after his first few weeks (since I have Kelce) and there was no interest, and no offers all year.

I think the only thing that would change TE value (because TE premium scoring simply doesn't bump their value as much as you think), is a start-2 TE lineup requirement.

Getting by each week starting two "just ok" TEs would become a significantly less viable strategy.

[ArrylT]

I think the more volatile a position changes, OR is perceived to change, from year to year it is harder to get the majority to buy into valuing that position with a premium. TE, rightly or wrongly, has a perception that it is very volatile from year to year except for a small number of reliable options, and when you add in injuries & changing situations ...

Then like you said, there are a lot of TEs who can still be productive late in their career - except it is almost impossible to change the age bias - a WR/RB at age 33-35 is going to be very cheap to acquire for the most part. So likewise for Tight Ends - no one is likely to pay a 2nd for a 33 year old TE if they are not even going to pay a 2nd for an aging elite WR/RB like a Larry Fitzgerald.

So yes, even in TE premium leagues, TEs may still experience a below value market. Heck George Kittle was the 1st TE off the board at 2.09 in a 1.75 TE Premium startup, which is almost on par for his typical PPR adp.

[slaughterrt]

If everyone is undervaluing TEs...then take advantage of that and buy low on them. I just bought Evan Engram for a devy depleted 2021 1st (late) and the 2020 2.12.

[M-Dub]

I love TE too - always been my favorite offensive position in football because of that truly versatile receiving-blocking skill set and role they typically have.

As for TE value, including in TE premium (my league is 1.5 PPR TE premium, the more common premium TE scoring format), you're right, it's always lower than you expect when it comes to trades.

I think it may start with the marketing in NFL football itself focuses more on QB, RB, WR, which are typically deeper in name-brand talent. Like you said, there's very few name brands at TE - just the nature of the beast.

But the good news from a FF starting lineup perspective is, you can always fill in a decent TE starter because there's plenty of "good enough" ones out there every year, especially these days, where some teams seem to pass almost every down.

Back on trade value - shopped Mark Andrews last year after his first few weeks (since I have Kelce) and there was no interest, and no offers all year.

I think the only thing that would change TE value (because TE premium scoring simply doesn't bump their value as much as you think), is a start-2 TE lineup requirement.

Getting by each week starting two "just ok" TEs would become a significantly less viable strategy.

Strongly agree with the bolded part. As superflex and 2QB leagues have clearly demonstrated, the best way to increase a particular position’s value is to require more of them in starting lineups, as opposed to rewarding them more than other positions for doing the same thing. I’m a firm believer that a reception is a reception, and the position one plays should have no bearing on the score one accrues for it. But if you have to start two TEs, then suddenly people start taking the position a lot more seriously.

[bjd5211]

TE Premium only increases the value of the top guys a little bit, 2TE increases the value of the position as a whole.

[djeternal2]

TE Premium only increases the value of the top guys a little bit, 2TE increases the value of the position as a whole.

I disagree. All 2 TE does is force you to play 2 players that are less than desirable to have in your lineup. After the top 2-4 guys they are basically all the same and you are hoping for a TD catch each week from your TE. How does that increase the value of guys 5 thru say 12 or 24? Frankly the TE as we used to see it has gone away and it's been that way for awhile. We are hanging onto something in name only at this point. Instead of separate WR & TE lineup designations it should be WR/TE lineup spots that way your Kelce's & Ertz still have value but it doesn't force an owner to play Vance McDonald/Jimmy Graham every week because they are forced to play 2 TE. Just looking at a PPR league last year Jimmy Graham was the 21st TE so in a 2 TE 12 tm league he's a starter and scored 142.05 pts. Compare that to Sterling Shepard the 48th WR and probably not a starter in the same type of league who scored 141.8 pts. So 47 WRs scored more pts than Graham so why force owners to start inferior players when the NFL has changed?

[M-Dub]

TE Premium only increases the value of the top guys a little bit, 2TE increases the value of the position as a whole.

I disagree. All 2 TE does is force you to play 2 players that are less than desirable to have in your lineup. After the top 2-4 guys they are basically all the same and you are hoping for a TD catch each week from your TE. How does that increase the value of guys 5 thru say 12 or 24? Frankly the TE as we used to see it has gone away and it's been that way for awhile. We are hanging onto something in name only at this point. Instead of separate WR & TE lineup designations it should be WR/TE lineup spots that way your Kelce's & Ertz still have value but it doesn't force an owner to play Vance McDonald/Jimmy Graham every week because they are forced to play 2 TE. Just looking at a PPR league last year Jimmy Graham was the 21st TE so in a 2 TE 12 tm league he's a starter and scored 142.05 pts. Compare that to Sterling Shepard the 48th WR and probably not a starter in the same type of league who scored 141.8 pts. So 47 WRs scored more pts than Graham so why force owners to start inferior players when the NFL has changed?

There are more fantasy viable WRs than RBs too. Should we just do away with positional minimums altogether and start 1-2 QB with 7-9 flex spots?

It’s funny. You start your post by saying you disagree, then go on to explain why you’re wrong. To be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong about how to treat TEs. If you want to just disregard them altogether outside of the top 4-5, that’s totally you’re prerogative. But in the scenario you outlined, I highly doubt 12 TEs would even be rostered, let alone started, which basically proves the point you claimed to disagree with. You may not personally like the results, but a 2TE format absolutely does increase the value of the position significantly, regardless of whether or not you artificially increase their scoring.

[DLF3000]

TE Premium only increases the value of the top guys a little bit, 2TE increases the value of the position as a whole.

I disagree [...] why force owners to start inferior players when the NFL has changed?

It's not much different than than having to start a 3rd RB or 4th WR at flex - often those guys are fringe starts, especially during byes.

Besides, it's not "forced" - it would be something you'd agree to ahead of time, of course, like any change to or new scoring/starting requirement, whether a new or established league.

Start 2TE might not be fun and/or challenging for all leagues or GMs, but it would certainly be for some.

[djeternal2]

TE Premium only increases the value of the top guys a little bit, 2TE increases the value of the position as a whole.

I disagree. All 2 TE does is force you to play 2 players that are less than desirable to have in your lineup. After the top 2-4 guys they are basically all the same and you are hoping for a TD catch each week from your TE. How does that increase the value of guys 5 thru say 12 or 24? Frankly the TE as we used to see it has gone away and it's been that way for awhile. We are hanging onto something in name only at this point. Instead of separate WR & TE lineup designations it should be WR/TE lineup spots that way your Kelce's & Ertz still have value but it doesn't force an owner to play Vance McDonald/Jimmy Graham every week because they are forced to play 2 TE. Just looking at a PPR league last year Jimmy Graham was the 21st TE so in a 2 TE 12 tm league he's a starter and scored 142.05 pts. Compare that to Sterling Shepard the 48th WR and probably not a starter in the same type of league who scored 141.8 pts. So 47 WRs scored more pts than Graham so why force owners to start inferior players when the NFL has changed?

There are more fantasy viable WRs than RBs too. Should we just do away with positional minimums altogether and start 1-2 QB with 7-9 flex spots?

It’s funny. You start your post by saying you disagree, then go on to explain why you’re wrong. To be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong about how to treat TEs. If you want to just disregard them altogether outside of the top 4-5, that’s totally you’re prerogative. But in the scenario you outlined, I highly doubt 12 TEs would even be rostered, let alone started, which basically proves the point you claimed to disagree with. You may not personally like the results, but a 2TE format absolutely does increase the value of the position significantly, regardless of whether or not you artificially increase their scoring.

Well same scoring situation Damien Williams the 38th RB scored 142.1 so still 17 more RBs than a starting TE in that type of league. Secondly just because you have to start two does not naturally make the lower end starting ones more valuable because you have to start 2. It does increase the top end ones that give you a positional advantage. The difference between the lower TEs is a couple ppg. No one would be trading significant value to upgrade from Jimmy Graham to say Jason Witten even tho Graham was TE 21 and Witten TE 11. The difference between the 2 is less than 4 ppg.

[Needalife]

I love TE prem. I try to stockpile and use them as flexes. I won a league last year (very deep with 5 flexes) because of this strategy... started Kelce, Waller, Ertz, Witten, Olsen and it worked well. Tough to get value so I just roll with them.

[BigBawseRoss]

too hard to predict and wait. simple as that. anyone that burned a 1st on howard njoku or engram (engram been good at least) and didnt take one of the great rbs or WRs from that class likely felt burnt. people took em over kamara, juju, golladay, godwin etc. and then you see late round picks and UDFA like andrews kittle and waller pop off and it makes you not wanna invest and just try to find the next dude to blow up.

personally im really good at finding TE value so i def dont find myself paying up for a quality one too often.

[HEADBANGER]

I am an admitted TE whore & understand fully how you feel along with agree on their values. I play in couple FFPC leagues with 1.5 TE PPR so TE are certainly in demand and prices are slightly higher than average. Another league with traditional PPR TE scoring I won back to back titles partly due to very strong TE corp. This year was able to trade a couple away in package deals but remain TE strong there.

What I DON'T understand is you won the championship title by drafting higher TE than your league mates, who give's a damn if you can not trade away a TE for other positions. Do not tap on the tank to disturb the fish and take the TE advantage you have to anther playoff. Maybe others see your team winning again and come around to make fair offers for those TE.