I know. It's all, good, man.jjleurquin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:21 pmlmao. You could be serious at this point. He's a forgotten name in 2020.FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:20 pm#Sarcasmjjleurquin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:24 pm
Kevin White the guy that the Bears picked who was always hurt. He's on the 9ers squad now. While injuries can be an excuse for a guy not producing they can also set a young player with potential on a bad trajectory.
Does Anyone Still Believe: N'Keal Harry Edition
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Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
"You're a creep. You got caught.." -Dan Patrick
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
This is spot on. For a few years, everyone was calling Davante Adams a bust and now he's probably the best WR in the league. Not every player (coupled with situation) can come in a make an immediate impact.Dynasty DeLorean wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:45 am I can't argue at all whether Harry looks good or not. But I can make these points;
1) Harry has not been able to attend a normal off-season and pre-season, ever. Year 1 due to injury and Year 2 due to Covid.
2) He's only played in 12 NFL games so far.
3) He's only 22 years old.
4) He's been preparing to play with 3 different QB's within the span of a single year.
5) He has improved from year 1 to year 2.
6) He has shown some flashes of good play.
7) His resume on paper (draft pedigree, size and athleticism, college production) is superb.
We all know he hasn't been good. It's more to say here is a player that is losing value, but with his resume he's exactly the type of player to keep betting on. Whether you think he looks like he can't run routes or can't separate doesn't really matter. As long as it's not JJAWS level of bad then it doesn't really matter. How many people thought about Claypool the same exact way? Can't run routes, can't separate. Most did.
Harry reminds me a lot of Derrick Henry. Both excellent resumes coming into the league but they just didn't fire right away. People forget that for 44 NFL games, many if not the majority of dynasty players thought Derrick Henry was garbage. Harry is at 12 games played right now. Not every player is wired to come into the league and dominate right away. Every player is different and sometimes it just takes more time for some than for others. I really liked DeVante Parkers talent in college and it literally took 5 years for him to grow up and mature and translate it to the NFL.
Again, I'm fading Harry just like everyone else. I'm not writing this to convince anyone that he's good, I don't know if he's good either. I'm more responding to the people who are certain that Harry is a lost cause, that he's a bust, that he's droppable, that he's a garbage player, etc. It looks bleak but we have seen this path before. This is exactly the type of player you should be betting on when their value craters for the reasons I outlined above.
If I'm trying to buy, no i'm not paying a 1st and i'm probably not paying a 2nd straight up either. But given the comments here and other trades I've seen, maybe adding to a 3rd would get it done and I'd do that all day.
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Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
Oh, Harry would be below any rookie wr with a pulse for me for sure
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
Think you got the wrong Devantethebeast wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:24 amThis is spot on. For a few years, everyone was calling Davante Adams a bust and now he's probably the best WR in the league. Not every player (coupled with situation) can come in a make an immediate impact.Dynasty DeLorean wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:45 am I can't argue at all whether Harry looks good or not. But I can make these points;
1) Harry has not been able to attend a normal off-season and pre-season, ever. Year 1 due to injury and Year 2 due to Covid.
2) He's only played in 12 NFL games so far.
3) He's only 22 years old.
4) He's been preparing to play with 3 different QB's within the span of a single year.
5) He has improved from year 1 to year 2.
6) He has shown some flashes of good play.
7) His resume on paper (draft pedigree, size and athleticism, college production) is superb.
We all know he hasn't been good. It's more to say here is a player that is losing value, but with his resume he's exactly the type of player to keep betting on. Whether you think he looks like he can't run routes or can't separate doesn't really matter. As long as it's not JJAWS level of bad then it doesn't really matter. How many people thought about Claypool the same exact way? Can't run routes, can't separate. Most did.
Harry reminds me a lot of Derrick Henry. Both excellent resumes coming into the league but they just didn't fire right away. People forget that for 44 NFL games, many if not the majority of dynasty players thought Derrick Henry was garbage. Harry is at 12 games played right now. Not every player is wired to come into the league and dominate right away. Every player is different and sometimes it just takes more time for some than for others. I really liked DeVante Parkers talent in college and it literally took 5 years for him to grow up and mature and translate it to the NFL.
Again, I'm fading Harry just like everyone else. I'm not writing this to convince anyone that he's good, I don't know if he's good either. I'm more responding to the people who are certain that Harry is a lost cause, that he's a bust, that he's droppable, that he's a garbage player, etc. It looks bleak but we have seen this path before. This is exactly the type of player you should be betting on when their value craters for the reasons I outlined above.
If I'm trying to buy, no i'm not paying a 1st and i'm probably not paying a 2nd straight up either. But given the comments here and other trades I've seen, maybe adding to a 3rd would get it done and I'd do that all day.
Adams could run routes. Not sure Harry can even spell route at this point. Maybe he will turn into Devante Parker by year 5.
The Clock is Running and there are no Timeouts
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
Who?jjleurquin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:24 pmKevin White the guy that the Bears picked who was always hurt. He's on the 9ers squad now. While injuries can be an excuse for a guy not producing they can also set a young player with potential on a bad trajectory.
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
Just sold Harry for a projected mid ‘21 3rd. I hate selling “low” on a player but my roster is crammed and I needed to make room for Goedart and CMC coming off IR.
I didn’t draft him and bought this offseason in a package, so it stings a bit less, but he has been throughly disappointing thus far in his career.
I didn’t draft him and bought this offseason in a package, so it stings a bit less, but he has been throughly disappointing thus far in his career.
Team 1: 12-team SF 0.5 PPR:
QB: Dak, Russ, Stafford, Geno, Dalton
RB: Harris, Gibson, Chubb, Cohen
WR: DK, Ridley, Kirk, Chark, Woods, C Samuel, Shepard, Reagor
TE: Fant, Knox
Team 2: 14-team PPR SF TEP:
QB: Wilson, Burrow, Geno, Foles
RB: Mixon, Gibson, Hines, Cohen, Pollard
WR: DJM, Cooper, Sutton, Deebo, R. Moore, ARSB, Eskridge, Renfrow
TE: Gesicki, Njoku, Arnold
Team 3: 12-team PPR SF:
QB: Watson, Lawrence, Winston, Cam
RB: Harris, Ekeler, Dobbins
WR: Hill, AJB, Woods, Chark, Lockett
TE: Gesicki, OJH, Firkser
Team 4: 12-team SF TEP Devy
QB: Wilson, Geno, Ryan, Cousins
RB: Zeke, Chubb, Sanders, Pollard, Hines, Cohen, Henderson
WR: Cooper, Godwin, Sutton, JuJu, Samuel, Fuller, Shepard, Campbell
TE: Fant, Gesicki, Ertz, Freiermuth
Devy: Boutte, Young, Slovis, Harris
Team 5: 12-team PPR SF:
QB: Dak, Lance, Jones, Cam
RB: Swift, Sanders, Dobbins, Pollard
WR: Sutton, DJM, Golladay, Chase, Pittman, Kirk, Campbell, Mims, Wallace
TE: Herndon, Gesicki, Freiermuth
QB: Dak, Russ, Stafford, Geno, Dalton
RB: Harris, Gibson, Chubb, Cohen
WR: DK, Ridley, Kirk, Chark, Woods, C Samuel, Shepard, Reagor
TE: Fant, Knox
Team 2: 14-team PPR SF TEP:
QB: Wilson, Burrow, Geno, Foles
RB: Mixon, Gibson, Hines, Cohen, Pollard
WR: DJM, Cooper, Sutton, Deebo, R. Moore, ARSB, Eskridge, Renfrow
TE: Gesicki, Njoku, Arnold
Team 3: 12-team PPR SF:
QB: Watson, Lawrence, Winston, Cam
RB: Harris, Ekeler, Dobbins
WR: Hill, AJB, Woods, Chark, Lockett
TE: Gesicki, OJH, Firkser
Team 4: 12-team SF TEP Devy
QB: Wilson, Geno, Ryan, Cousins
RB: Zeke, Chubb, Sanders, Pollard, Hines, Cohen, Henderson
WR: Cooper, Godwin, Sutton, JuJu, Samuel, Fuller, Shepard, Campbell
TE: Fant, Gesicki, Ertz, Freiermuth
Devy: Boutte, Young, Slovis, Harris
Team 5: 12-team PPR SF:
QB: Dak, Lance, Jones, Cam
RB: Swift, Sanders, Dobbins, Pollard
WR: Sutton, DJM, Golladay, Chase, Pittman, Kirk, Campbell, Mims, Wallace
TE: Herndon, Gesicki, Freiermuth
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
That's not low. He's a zero - a 3rd, which is meh, is still a huge win.blemly wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:39 pm Just sold Harry for a projected mid ‘21 3rd. I hate selling “low” on a player but my roster is crammed and I needed to make room for Goedart and CMC coming off IR.
I didn’t draft him and bought this offseason in a package, so it stings a bit less, but he has been throughly disappointing thus far in his career.
35 Team Dyn PPR, 3 x Copy SF start 2TE Super Prem (TE 2 PPR, 8pt TD), 6 pt/non-TE TD, 1pt/20 yds pass (300 +3pt), 1pt/10 yds rush/rec (100 +3pt)
Start 12: 1QB 1SFLX 2RB 4WR 2TE 2FLX | 30 Active Roster, unlim Taxi, 3 IR/Out (+) | est. '21 | playoffs '21, '22
QB - J Allen, T Lawrence ...
RB - A Ekeler, S Barkley, J Cook, I Pacheco ...
WR - AJ Brown, C Ridley, G Pickens, C Sutton ...
TE - D Njoku, D Knox ...
® 2024 - | 2025 -
Start 12: 1QB 1SFLX 2RB 4WR 2TE 2FLX | 30 Active Roster, unlim Taxi, 3 IR/Out (+) | est. '21 | playoffs '21, '22
QB - J Allen, T Lawrence ...
RB - A Ekeler, S Barkley, J Cook, I Pacheco ...
WR - AJ Brown, C Ridley, G Pickens, C Sutton ...
TE - D Njoku, D Knox ...
® 2024 - | 2025 -
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Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
Nope
/thread
/thread
16 team league
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex (RB/WR/TE)
26 upman rosters - full point ppr
2015, 17, 18, 19, 20 Champs
QB: Watson, Flacco Stidham
RB: Bijan, Gibbs, McLaughlin
WR: Olave, Addison, Flowers, Rice, Sutton, Downs, Mims, Tillman
TE: Kittle, Goedert, Chig, Woods
24 Picks: 1.06
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex (RB/WR/TE)
26 upman rosters - full point ppr
2015, 17, 18, 19, 20 Champs
QB: Watson, Flacco Stidham
RB: Bijan, Gibbs, McLaughlin
WR: Olave, Addison, Flowers, Rice, Sutton, Downs, Mims, Tillman
TE: Kittle, Goedert, Chig, Woods
24 Picks: 1.06
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
Hmmmm, never heard of her.....mild wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:51 pmWho?jjleurquin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:24 pmKevin White the guy that the Bears picked who was always hurt. He's on the 9ers squad now. While injuries can be an excuse for a guy not producing they can also set a young player with potential on a bad trajectory.
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Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
So I remembered commenting on someone's post about what the hit rate is on guys who don't play much their rookie year. May have been this thread or another. Anyway I went to look it up because I was interested and the results led me back here.
From 1995-2015, 465 rookie wr's played in 8 games or less. Only 5 of them, or roughly 1%, went on to find success. So the hit rate is abysmal. The big jump to me appears to happen with rookies with 9+ games played. 8 or less and you only have 1 hit per group, 9 or more is where you start getting multiple hits per group and a higher hit rate as well.
The thing that led me here is that many of the hits in the 8 or less group looked like Harry their first 2 years.
8 or less games played;
Studs
Vincent Jackson – 8 games (2nd round pick) (59 yards year 1)(453 yards year 2)
Amani Toomer – 7 games (2nd round pick) (12 yards year 1)(263 yards year 2)
Donald Driver – 6 games (7th round pick) (31 yards year 1)(322 yards year 2)
Santana Moss – 5 games (1st round pick) (40 yards year 1)(433 yards year 2)
Good
Victor Cruz – 3 games (UDFA) (0 yards year 1) (1536 yards year 2)
If you adjust for looking at players with 8 or less games played and top 2 round draft pedigree, you find 23 results, and the percentages jump up from 1% to 13%. It's not much but it's something.
What's remarkable is how many of the hits look like Harry on paper. Abysmal rookie year. 2nd year not that much better (maybe 300-400 receiving yards, which Harry is pacing towards).
As for the rest of the players on the list, many busted after just 1 year. Some plodded a long for a few years of 200-300 yards production. Others like Ike Hilliard had O-K careers. And the ones I listed above became studs. Anyway, that's all. Just thought it was pretty interesting.
Looking at the "high profile" names on the 8 or less list since 2015, we have;
Travis Fulgham
Allen Lazard
Preston Williams
Parris Campbell
Josh Doctson
John Ross
N'Keal Harry
Kevin White
Dede Westbrook
Keke Coutee
Jalen Guyton
Auden Tate
Oddly enough, Preston Williams has the most rookie receiving yardage of anyone on the 8 or less list from 1995-2019
From 1995-2015, 465 rookie wr's played in 8 games or less. Only 5 of them, or roughly 1%, went on to find success. So the hit rate is abysmal. The big jump to me appears to happen with rookies with 9+ games played. 8 or less and you only have 1 hit per group, 9 or more is where you start getting multiple hits per group and a higher hit rate as well.
The thing that led me here is that many of the hits in the 8 or less group looked like Harry their first 2 years.
8 or less games played;
Studs
Vincent Jackson – 8 games (2nd round pick) (59 yards year 1)(453 yards year 2)
Amani Toomer – 7 games (2nd round pick) (12 yards year 1)(263 yards year 2)
Donald Driver – 6 games (7th round pick) (31 yards year 1)(322 yards year 2)
Santana Moss – 5 games (1st round pick) (40 yards year 1)(433 yards year 2)
Good
Victor Cruz – 3 games (UDFA) (0 yards year 1) (1536 yards year 2)
If you adjust for looking at players with 8 or less games played and top 2 round draft pedigree, you find 23 results, and the percentages jump up from 1% to 13%. It's not much but it's something.
What's remarkable is how many of the hits look like Harry on paper. Abysmal rookie year. 2nd year not that much better (maybe 300-400 receiving yards, which Harry is pacing towards).
As for the rest of the players on the list, many busted after just 1 year. Some plodded a long for a few years of 200-300 yards production. Others like Ike Hilliard had O-K careers. And the ones I listed above became studs. Anyway, that's all. Just thought it was pretty interesting.
Looking at the "high profile" names on the 8 or less list since 2015, we have;
Travis Fulgham
Allen Lazard
Preston Williams
Parris Campbell
Josh Doctson
John Ross
N'Keal Harry
Kevin White
Dede Westbrook
Keke Coutee
Jalen Guyton
Auden Tate
Oddly enough, Preston Williams has the most rookie receiving yardage of anyone on the 8 or less list from 1995-2019
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
I agree that Parker is likely his ceiling, but if you go back and take a look at the conversation around here prior to Adam's year three it was pretty brutal. Pretty much every post had the word bust.Ice wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:11 pmThink you got the wrong Devantethebeast wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:24 amThis is spot on. For a few years, everyone was calling Davante Adams a bust and now he's probably the best WR in the league. Not every player (coupled with situation) can come in a make an immediate impact.Dynasty DeLorean wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:45 am I can't argue at all whether Harry looks good or not. But I can make these points;
1) Harry has not been able to attend a normal off-season and pre-season, ever. Year 1 due to injury and Year 2 due to Covid.
2) He's only played in 12 NFL games so far.
3) He's only 22 years old.
4) He's been preparing to play with 3 different QB's within the span of a single year.
5) He has improved from year 1 to year 2.
6) He has shown some flashes of good play.
7) His resume on paper (draft pedigree, size and athleticism, college production) is superb.
We all know he hasn't been good. It's more to say here is a player that is losing value, but with his resume he's exactly the type of player to keep betting on. Whether you think he looks like he can't run routes or can't separate doesn't really matter. As long as it's not JJAWS level of bad then it doesn't really matter. How many people thought about Claypool the same exact way? Can't run routes, can't separate. Most did.
Harry reminds me a lot of Derrick Henry. Both excellent resumes coming into the league but they just didn't fire right away. People forget that for 44 NFL games, many if not the majority of dynasty players thought Derrick Henry was garbage. Harry is at 12 games played right now. Not every player is wired to come into the league and dominate right away. Every player is different and sometimes it just takes more time for some than for others. I really liked DeVante Parkers talent in college and it literally took 5 years for him to grow up and mature and translate it to the NFL.
Again, I'm fading Harry just like everyone else. I'm not writing this to convince anyone that he's good, I don't know if he's good either. I'm more responding to the people who are certain that Harry is a lost cause, that he's a bust, that he's droppable, that he's a garbage player, etc. It looks bleak but we have seen this path before. This is exactly the type of player you should be betting on when their value craters for the reasons I outlined above.
If I'm trying to buy, no i'm not paying a 1st and i'm probably not paying a 2nd straight up either. But given the comments here and other trades I've seen, maybe adding to a 3rd would get it done and I'd do that all day.
Adams could run routes. Not sure Harry can even spell route at this point. Maybe he will turn into Devante Parker by year 5.
Here you go, just take a peek at this thread.. People forget now, Adams was gong for 2nd round rookie picks in his 2nd year viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124655&p=1083272&hi ... s#p1083272
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
Out of curiosity, how many people have simply dropped him? Our trade deadline has passed and I couldn’t move him for anything decent. Deciding him or Jacokobi as a possible drop.
10Team PPR-QB/RB/WR/WR/TE/PK/flex-DT/DE/DE/LB/LB/LB/CB/CB/S/S/flex
QB- Herbert, Tua
RB- Barkley, Swift, Montgomery, Dobbins, Walker
WR-Adams, ARSB, JWilliams, Godwin, Metcalf, Allen, Kirk, Flowers
TE- Kelce, Goedert
PK
DT- Buckner, Simmons, QWilliams,
DE- Hunter, JBosa, Thibodeaux, JPHillips, Rousseau, Paye, Greenard
LB- Edmunds, Warner, E Kendricks, Wagner, De"Vondre Campbell, Asamoah, Sanders
CB- Moore, Howard, Reed
S- Dugger, Pitre, Thompson
IR Dobbins, Dulcich
Taxi- Kincaid, QJohnston
QB- Herbert, Tua
RB- Barkley, Swift, Montgomery, Dobbins, Walker
WR-Adams, ARSB, JWilliams, Godwin, Metcalf, Allen, Kirk, Flowers
TE- Kelce, Goedert
PK
DT- Buckner, Simmons, QWilliams,
DE- Hunter, JBosa, Thibodeaux, JPHillips, Rousseau, Paye, Greenard
LB- Edmunds, Warner, E Kendricks, Wagner, De"Vondre Campbell, Asamoah, Sanders
CB- Moore, Howard, Reed
S- Dugger, Pitre, Thompson
IR Dobbins, Dulcich
Taxi- Kincaid, QJohnston
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
People believed in Harry to begin with?
Yikes
Yikes
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Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
I managed move one share for a 2nd but the other share I have had no joy moving so I will hold because it is a deep bench so I can afford to see if he generates offseason buzz. I don't believe he will ever be anything at this point though so the hope is he gets enough hype that I can get something for him.
16 Team PPR (11th Year Dynasty - Former 2 Time Champion)
P. Mahomes, Z. Wilson
C. McCaffrey, N. Harris, C. Hubbard
D. Hopkins, A. Cooper, C. Kupp, D. Johnson, G. Davis, D. Mims, J. Palmer
D. Waller, C. Kmet, B. Jordan
C. Young, R. Quinn
D. Leonard, M. Milano, C. Mosely, B. Okereke, J. Davis
J. Simmons, J. Fuller
Picks - 1.01, 2.12, 3.01, 3.15, 4.14
16 Team PPR (10th Year Dynasty - Reigning 5 Time Champion)
A. Rodgers, J. Fields
C. McCaffrey, D. Henry, J. Dobbins, M. Davis
D. Hopkins, D. Adams, C. Kupp, M. Jones, M. Valdes-Scantling, A. Green, T. Johnson, Dy. Brown, G. Pickens, J. Tolbert,
N. Fant, A. Okwugbunam, J. Harris
J. Elliott
D. Lawrence, R. Quinn, T. Hendrickson
R. Smith, B. Okereke, L. Wilson, J. Davis, D. Tranquil, B. Asamoah
J. Simmons, W. Harris
P. Mahomes, Z. Wilson
C. McCaffrey, N. Harris, C. Hubbard
D. Hopkins, A. Cooper, C. Kupp, D. Johnson, G. Davis, D. Mims, J. Palmer
D. Waller, C. Kmet, B. Jordan
C. Young, R. Quinn
D. Leonard, M. Milano, C. Mosely, B. Okereke, J. Davis
J. Simmons, J. Fuller
Picks - 1.01, 2.12, 3.01, 3.15, 4.14
16 Team PPR (10th Year Dynasty - Reigning 5 Time Champion)
A. Rodgers, J. Fields
C. McCaffrey, D. Henry, J. Dobbins, M. Davis
D. Hopkins, D. Adams, C. Kupp, M. Jones, M. Valdes-Scantling, A. Green, T. Johnson, Dy. Brown, G. Pickens, J. Tolbert,
N. Fant, A. Okwugbunam, J. Harris
J. Elliott
D. Lawrence, R. Quinn, T. Hendrickson
R. Smith, B. Okereke, L. Wilson, J. Davis, D. Tranquil, B. Asamoah
J. Simmons, W. Harris
Re: Does anyone still belive in N'Keal Harry
Not that Agholor or Bourne are anything special but these signings can't be a good thing for Harry, can they?
Think he gets traded? There was a report teams were calling for him.
If he gets traded, is he worth a flier or are we convinced he's a bust like OP said?
Think he gets traded? There was a report teams were calling for him.
If he gets traded, is he worth a flier or are we convinced he's a bust like OP said?
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