Does Anyone Still Believe: N'Keal Harry Edition

[FantasyFreak]

I will say that players weaknesses rarely become strengths. Harry will likely never separate well. I think most people thinking he can learn this, and become good at it will be disappointed. He may improve his technique to limit his weaknesses, but Harry is good at being a 50/50 ball guy, and is really good after the catch. He can play some big slot, too. Luckily, he went to a team that tends to focus on players strengths and utilize them. New England will most likely have plays to get the ball in Harry's hands to make plays after the catch, and design plays to get him the ball in the red zone. They aren't going to have him running double moves and complicated routes. He will most likely be a lower volume WR, capable of big YAC plays and TD's IMO.

[Sriracha]

Do you think CBs can improve from college? Do you think NFL teams are only drafting the DBs that are not apt at improving technique? What makes you think Harry will all of a sudden learn at a more advanced level than his competition?

Of course CB's can improve from college. Will they? Not every player has the same aptitude and drive needed to improve. Numerous CB's have risen from seemingly out of nowhere to become some of the elites. Odds are there was some improvement that coincided with their meteoric rise.

This is my own personal theory, but this improvement is exactly why I believe break out age is indicative of a Receivers ability to transition to the NFL. It's an indicator of some combination of an elite work ethic and aptitude for improvement.

I will say that players weaknesses rarely become strengths. Harry will likely never separate well. I think most people thinking he can learn this, and become good at it will be disappointed. He may improve his technique to limit his weaknesses, but Harry is good at being a 50/50 ball guy, and is really good after the catch. He can play some big slot, too. Luckily, he went to a team that tends to focus on players strengths and utilize them. New England will most likely have plays to get the ball in Harry's hands to make plays after the catch, and design plays to get him the ball in the red zone. They aren't going to have him running double moves and complicated routes. He will most likely be a lower volume WR, capable of big YAC plays and TD's IMO.

I don't think he'll ever separate well, but it's not like that's a damning fault that other receivers haven't had success with (Hopkins, Dez Bryant-- who also have similar strengths to compensate for this weakness)... but beating the press? Not wasting time shuffling in place mid route? Those are things I expect to be shored up over time. Maybe he'll never be great at beating the press, but he can certainly improve from where he is now. Harry already runs a very pretty double move, and I don't expect him to be as limited in the agility department as another Big WR (DK Metcalf) who I have no hope of ever having a varied route tree.

[honcho55]

Just popping in to this thread so I can look at it a year+ from now. Harry is and has been my 1.01 in this draft for a long long time. I see Dez Bryant.

I’ve been wrong before, and I see a lot of valid critique, so plopping this post here as either a Plant My Flag or Learn My Lesson later.

Good thread

Edit: I guess this thread is kinda making me relieved I didn’t put my money where my mouth is, I own Harry no where.

[Ice]

Harry already runs a very pretty double move, and I don't expect him to be as limited in the agility department as another Big WR (DK Metcalf) who I have no hope of ever having a varied route tree.

Really?

Explain exactly which routes DK has to run. Not aimed just at you but I haven’t heard on legit route issue that matters for a 6.2 with 4.33 speed with a 40 plus vertical.

Harry is far from precise in his own right.

Feel free to compare those routes to Calvin Johnson who ran 3-4 routes in the NFL.

DK is way faster, much better vertical, bigger hands and can run the routes fit for an X as good or better than Harry.

Check the routes and drills at the combine vs Harry. Harry was pretty sloppy by comparison.

The biggest difference on film between these two is DK destroys press coverage with 3 different moves off the line. Harry doesn’t but does have solid production with no health concerns.

Don’t see these two that close at all long term. DK is far more gifted.

DK’s neck injury was a concern but he blew the doors off the combine around 6 months post injury. May take him a bit longer to get polish but ceiling is much higher.

[Sriracha]

Harry already runs a very pretty double move, and I don't expect him to be as limited in the agility department as another Big WR (DK Metcalf) who I have no hope of ever having a varied route tree.

Really?

Explain exactly which routes DK has to run. Not aimed just at you but I haven’t heard on legit route issue that matters for a 6.2 with 4.33 speed with a 40 plus vertical.

Harry is far from precise in his own right.

Feel free to compare those routes to Calvin Johnson who ran 3-4 routes in the NFL.

DK is way faster, much better vertical, bigger hands and can run the routes fit for an X as good or better than Harry.

Check the routes and drills at the combine vs Harry. Harry was pretty sloppy by comparison.

The biggest difference on film between these two is DK destroys press coverage with 3 different moves off the line. Harry doesn’t but does have solid production with no health concerns.

Don’t see these two that close at all long term. DK is far more gifted.

DK’s neck injury was a concern but he blew the doors off the combine around 6 months post injury. May take him a bit longer to get polish but ceiling is much higher.

Apples and oranges. I never said DK can't have success despite his flaws... He has clear strengths that he can utilize to overcome them... just like N'keal does.

[Ice]

it is easy to claim route tree issues but I have yet to hear from any poster that brings it up to explain specific routes he can’t run or should run from the X

You’re not alone in that regard. In all honesty people don’t have a clue as to Harry’s agility given he, like many bigs don’t run those meaningless drills designed for edge players and RB’s.

DK never should have run that drill and even though he improved at his pro day the fantasy community went Bat S.... crazy over nothing.

Every WR coming out has flaws. Harry’s is he can’t beat press coverage and his gear to separate is highly suspect.

If anyone better learn how to not round off routes it’s Harry.

The good news is these two won’t run a lot of slot or Z type routes. Not why they were drafted. That said if Harry can’t learn to separate he could be forced inside at some point which could actually help him. He does have an adequate 1st step to play in the slot when needed.

[Cult of Dionysus]

Harry already runs a very pretty double move, and I don't expect him to be as limited in the agility department as another Big WR (DK Metcalf) who I have no hope of ever having a varied route tree.

Really?

Explain exactly which routes DK has to run. Not aimed just at you but I haven’t heard on legit route issue that matters for a 6.2 with 4.33 speed with a 40 plus vertical.

Harry is far from precise in his own right.

Feel free to compare those routes to Calvin Johnson who ran 3-4 routes in the NFL.

DK is way faster, much better vertical, bigger hands and can run the routes fit for an X as good or better than Harry.

Check the routes and drills at the combine vs Harry. Harry was pretty sloppy by comparison.

The biggest difference on film between these two is DK destroys press coverage with 3 different moves off the line. Harry doesn’t but does have solid production with no health concerns.

Don’t see these two that close at all long term. DK is far more gifted.

DK’s neck injury was a concern but he blew the doors off the combine around 6 months post injury. May take him a bit longer to get polish but ceiling is much higher.

Apples and oranges. I never said DK can't have success despite his flaws... He has clear strengths that he can utilize to overcome them... just like N'keal does.

Ouch. That must have just left a mark.

[Sriracha]

Really?

Explain exactly which routes DK has to run. Not aimed just at you but I haven’t heard on legit route issue that matters for a 6.2 with 4.33 speed with a 40 plus vertical.

Harry is far from precise in his own right.

Feel free to compare those routes to Calvin Johnson who ran 3-4 routes in the NFL.

DK is way faster, much better vertical, bigger hands and can run the routes fit for an X as good or better than Harry.

Check the routes and drills at the combine vs Harry. Harry was pretty sloppy by comparison.

The biggest difference on film between these two is DK destroys press coverage with 3 different moves off the line. Harry doesn’t but does have solid production with no health concerns.

Don’t see these two that close at all long term. DK is far more gifted.

DK’s neck injury was a concern but he blew the doors off the combine around 6 months post injury. May take him a bit longer to get polish but ceiling is much higher.

Apples and oranges. I never said DK can't have success despite his flaws... He has clear strengths that he can utilize to overcome them... just like N'keal does.

Ouch. That must have just left a mark.

[Cult of Dionysus]

[Servo]

Please remind me, wasn't there another guy who wasn't the 1st receiver selected in their respective draft and also had separation issues in college (coincidentally, against similar competition)...along with an underwhelming Reception Perception profile...that same guy still had a solid breakout age as well as MS Receiving Yards by age....

Juju Smith-Schuster, sure, it's easier to succeed when you have AB on your team and we'll learn a lot about Juju this year but Harry's profile shares a lot of similarities with other successful WR...time will tell.

[wickerkat1212]

Looking to make a big trade involving Harry and after reading all of this, watching game tape, and looking at rankings, I'm in. I think he has a high floor, and a high ceiling. I don't think he'll bust. Unless his floor of "good" is a bust.

[wickerkat1212]

In another forum, for instance, it was asked, "Who is the #1 pick in rookie drafts. Here are the results.":

Harry 10
Montgomery 4
Jacobs 2
Sanders 1

[AussieMate]

In another forum, for instance, it was asked, "Who is the #1 pick in rookie drafts. Here are the results.":

Harry 10
Montgomery 4
Jacobs 2
Sanders 1

Monty ahead of Jacobs? ewww, what's the name of that forum so I can avoid it... jks, I've noticed Monty has been sliding higher up the draft boards and the only thing i can think of is people are buying into all the coachspeak about him because there really isn't much else that's happened to move him ahead of someone like Jacobs just yet.

I like Monty but still have him ranked next to Sanders and I don't think that will change till we see them in pads.

[wickerkat1212]

In another forum, for instance, it was asked, "Who is the #1 pick in rookie drafts. Here are the results.":

Harry 10
Montgomery 4
Jacobs 2
Sanders 1

Monty ahead of Jacobs? ewww, what's the name of that forum so I can avoid it... jks, I've noticed Monty has been sliding higher up the draft boards and the only thing i can think of is people are buying into all the coachspeak about him because there really isn't much else that's happened to move him ahead of someone like Jacobs just yet.

I like Monty but still have him ranked next to Sanders and I don't think that will change till we see them in pads.

Some may think CHI is a better team/city than OAK, too. I have it Monty, Harry, Jacobs, Sanders FWIW.

[FantasyFreak]

In another forum, for instance, it was asked, "Who is the #1 pick in rookie drafts. Here are the results.":

Harry 10
Montgomery 4
Jacobs 2
Sanders 1

Monty ahead of Jacobs? ewww, what's the name of that forum so I can avoid it... jks, I've noticed Monty has been sliding higher up the draft boards and the only thing i can think of is people are buying into all the coachspeak about him because there really isn't much else that's happened to move him ahead of someone like Jacobs just yet.

I like Monty but still have him ranked next to Sanders and I don't think that will change till we see them in pads.

X2.