2020 BAD Trade Offers

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
OhCruelestRanter
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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:02 am

Something doesn't have to be an enormous difference in value to be a terrible trade. The difference between 3.05 and 3.06 is negligible, but if I offered you 3.06 for 3.05 straight up, you'd say I was out of my mind.

Same thing with the Odell for Thielen example. Maybe they are relatively close in value, but the overwhelming majority of players would prefer Odell. Asking for Odell in exchange for Thielen straight up is a bad offer.
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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby Blueboy » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:22 am

Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:12 am
He proceeds to send that offer (2.09 for Julio and Lindsay).

His response is priceless:
"Julio did NOT put up 1,400 yards this year, why you spouting this BS? Like you say, 'cite your source'. He's overrated, never was more than a WR2 in his career and he's fading fast. And you know it because you're willing to trade him. Just like to know Lindsay ain't gonna be the starter next year so you're willing to trade him."
With owners like that, I find the only thing to do is either counter with similarly terrible offers, or outright stop soliciting trades from them.

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1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 1SF 4Flex
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RB: J. Taylor, CEH, Ingram, Dillon, Penny, Henderson
WR: Metcalf, Woods, AJG, Kirk, Hardman, Isabella, Campbell, Hamler, JJAW
TE: Andrews, Njoku, Asiasi, Moreau, Trautman

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby bjd5211 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:34 am

Blueboy wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:22 am
Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:12 am
He proceeds to send that offer (2.09 for Julio and Lindsay).

His response is priceless:
"Julio did NOT put up 1,400 yards this year, why you spouting this BS? Like you say, 'cite your source'. He's overrated, never was more than a WR2 in his career and he's fading fast. And you know it because you're willing to trade him. Just like to know Lindsay ain't gonna be the starter next year so you're willing to trade him."
With owners like that, I find the only thing to do is either counter with similarly terrible offers, or outright stop soliciting trades from them.
I ask them why they are even interested in acquiring them then if they suck so much.

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby Mephistopheles » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:01 am

Blueboy wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:22 am
Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:12 am
He proceeds to send that offer (2.09 for Julio and Lindsay).

His response is priceless:
"Julio did NOT put up 1,400 yards this year, why you spouting this BS? Like you say, 'cite your source'. He's overrated, never was more than a WR2 in his career and he's fading fast. And you know it because you're willing to trade him. Just like to know Lindsay ain't gonna be the starter next year so you're willing to trade him."
With owners like that, I find the only thing to do is either counter with similarly terrible offers, or outright stop soliciting trades from them.
I did not solicit the offer at all. He approached me, I did nothing more than tell him what it would take for him to acquire the players (a mistake I will not make again).
Issue I have with sending similarly terrible offers is that probably 3/4 of DFF owners think that they are "negotiating" when they do stuff like this. These people honestly don't see anything wrong with doing something like this and sending "similarly terrible offers" doesn't have any effect on them - if anything, they anchor down harder on their "opinion" and make the discussion even more grueling. I've actually found it's just better to ignore them. I have a few owners in my leagues whose emails I've blocked and they just go to my spam folder and their trades expire unresponded.
PSA - Haggling is NOT the same as negotiating.

From the home office in Grand Rapids, MI, the Top 5 signs you suck as a trade partner (and probably as a human being)

5. You can name or fabricate 5 risks on every player not on your team.
4. You always respond that you don't value another team's players as highly as they do.
3. You steer conversations away from ADP or any other form of consensus or rankings to gauge trade value.
2. Your trade strategy centers around seeing where someone's at on a player or that "it's just a first offer".
1. Your trade offers are rejected without counter or outright ignored.
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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby grooner » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:41 am

Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:12 am
Not a formal offer but the comments on these...

Guy reached out to me asking about Julio Jones and Phillip Lindsay (he has freeman). Now what I've started to do with a lot of these trolls who ask after players is give them a "maybe" price and a "definitely" price. In this case, I said if you give me 2 1sts (both Early), I'll think about it, if you give AJ Brown, one early 1st and a late 2nd I'll definitely do it. For the record - DLF trade analyzer which I did not consult until after I gave him the quote, has the "maybe" about 5% in his favor and the "definitely" about 7% in mine.

Here's the guy's response (cut and paste):
"That's way too much. You're crazy to ask that kind of price for a washed up 33 year old receiver on a shitty team who I've heard is about to retire, plus an RB who's about to get beat out by the best young RB in the game. I'll give a late 2nd for both or nothing and that's a gift."

He proceeds to send that offer (2.09 for Julio and Lindsay).

I reject with the following response:
"If being 'washed up' means putting up 1,400 yards receiving, then I'll gladly keep this 'washed up' 30 year old receiver. As far as 'retiring', please cite your source. As far as Freeman being the 'best young RB in the game', Quads Barkley, Josh Jacobs, and Mr. McCaffrey might have a little something to say about that."

His response is priceless:
"Julio did NOT put up 1,400 yards this year, why you spouting this BS? Like you say, 'cite your source'. He's overrated, never was more than a WR2 in his career and he's fading fast. And you know it because you're willing to trade him. Just like to know Lindsay ain't gonna be the starter next year so you're willing to trade him."

Ummmmm...what? Lay off the crack dude...Julio was THE wr4 in this league this year. Not A WR4, THE WR4. And he was the reason I beat this idiot in the semifinals.
And some people wonder why I hate trading.
Rofl love this. I mean technically he only had 1394 yards so he didn't get 1400... What a troll, never been more than a WR2.

These are the kind offers that belong in this thread, a late 2nd for Julio and Lindsay, and the ones I love reading about.

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby squidvicious » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:53 pm

I give: AJ Brown, Marquise Brown, Jarvis Landry, Darren Waller, and 2.12.

I get: Odell Beckham, James Washington and Sam Darnold.

** Offered similar deal during startup draft last summer. Am glad it was rejected.
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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby Jigga94 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:48 am

squidvicious wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:53 pm
I give: AJ Brown, Marquise Brown, Jarvis Landry, Darren Waller, and 2.12.

I get: Odell Beckham, James Washington and Sam Darnold.

** Offered similar deal during startup draft last summer. Am glad it was rejected.
Meh. The fact that you offered a similar trade less than a year ago should tell you a lot about how these "BAD" offers aren't always that bad...
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - [b]14 Keepers[/b]
QB: Mahomes, J. Allen, Baker, D. Jones, Eason
RB: JT, Mostert, Gaskin, Dillon, Gus, Mattison, McFarland, Snell, Wilson, McKissic, Darrel
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Jeudy, Hollywood, Cooks, Mims, Hardman, Preston, Parris
TE: Andrews, Fant, Henry
2021: 1.10, 2, 3, 4, 5.08, 5.10, 6, 7, 9, 10

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - [b]20 Keepers[/b]
QB: [b]Mahomes, Ryan,[/b] Minshew, Trubisky, Mariota
RB: [b]Saquon, Jacobs, Dobbins, Hunt,[/b] Penny, Snell
WR: [b]AJB, DJM, Chark, Ruggs, Hardman, Mike Will, C. Davis, C. Samuel,[/b] G. Davis, Mooney, Lazard, J. Washington
TE: [b]Andrews, Henry, Gesicki, Tonyan,[/b] Irv
2021: 1.03, 2.05, 2.09, 3.05, 3.09
2022: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby DJB » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:45 am

That's my favorite . Here take this 2nd rounder and give me your "crap " (Julio) lol
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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby Orenthal Shames » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:52 pm

Got this offer right before the fantasy playoffs started:

Get John Brown for my 1.5. After politely declining that nonsense, he countered with Brown for Sanders...
16 team league
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex (RB/WR/TE)
26 man rosters - full point ppr
2015, 17, 18, 19, 20 Champs

QB: Tannehill, Brees
RB: Kamara, Sanders
WR: Hill, DK, KA, Julio, Cooks
TE: Kelce, Kittle

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby stoneghost28 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:36 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:12 am
Not a formal offer but the comments on these...

Guy reached out to me asking about Julio Jones and Phillip Lindsay (he has freeman). Now what I've started to do with a lot of these trolls who ask after players is give them a "maybe" price and a "definitely" price. In this case, I said if you give me 2 1sts (both Early), I'll think about it, if you give AJ Brown, one early 1st and a late 2nd I'll definitely do it. For the record - DLF trade analyzer which I did not consult until after I gave him the quote, has the "maybe" about 5% in his favor and the "definitely" about 7% in mine.

Here's the guy's response (cut and paste):
"That's way too much. You're crazy to ask that kind of price for a washed up 33 year old receiver on a shitty team who I've heard is about to retire, plus an RB who's about to get beat out by the best young RB in the game. I'll give a late 2nd for both or nothing and that's a gift."

He proceeds to send that offer (2.09 for Julio and Lindsay).

I reject with the following response:
"If being 'washed up' means putting up 1,400 yards receiving, then I'll gladly keep this 'washed up' 30 year old receiver. As far as 'retiring', please cite your source. As far as Freeman being the 'best young RB in the game', Quads Barkley, Josh Jacobs, and Mr. McCaffrey might have a little something to say about that."

His response is priceless:
"Julio did NOT put up 1,400 yards this year, why you spouting this BS? Like you say, 'cite your source'. He's overrated, never was more than a WR2 in his career and he's fading fast. And you know it because you're willing to trade him. Just like to know Lindsay ain't gonna be the starter next year so you're willing to trade him."

Ummmmm...what? Lay off the crack dude...Julio was THE wr4 in this league this year. Not A WR4, THE WR4. And he was the reason I beat this idiot in the semifinals.
And some people wonder why I hate trading.
Nothing's worse than someone coming in asking, and then losing their bleep after hearing your counter.

I had a guy last year who kept trying to pry Joe Mixon and Keenan Allen off of me in separate deals that were those classic a quarter/nickel/dime for a $1 deals.

Here's Anthony Miller, and Sterling and a 2021 2nd, give me Keenan, the 2.04 and a 2021 4th.

Here's Anthony Miller, a crappy 1st in the crappy '19 draft (1.08), a '21 1st and a 2nd, give me Mixon and a high 2nd (2.04)

After that, he goes, "So where's your offer, I sent you two good offers.

Just bear in mind, this is when Anthony Miller was literally worthless last summer and Mixon was coming off a monster 2018, and Shepard was the defintion of a WR on your bench/bye week option.

He got aggravated w/me because I wouldn't counter, and totally ignored his ---- offers and was annoyed when I called them what they were, spare change for a dollar offers.

That's the kind of stuff I just loathe, then the politics came in which was hilarious (he's a Florida Trumper, I'm from the People's Republic of Berkeley/Bay Area, though I live in the Lake Tahoe area now) and made for a couple of funny back and forth's before he started getting a little too heated.

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby stoneghost28 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:02 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:01 am
Blueboy wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:22 am
Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:12 am
He proceeds to send that offer (2.09 for Julio and Lindsay).

His response is priceless:
"Julio did NOT put up 1,400 yards this year, why you spouting this BS? Like you say, 'cite your source'. He's overrated, never was more than a WR2 in his career and he's fading fast. And you know it because you're willing to trade him. Just like to know Lindsay ain't gonna be the starter next year so you're willing to trade him."
With owners like that, I find the only thing to do is either counter with similarly terrible offers, or outright stop soliciting trades from them.
I did not solicit the offer at all. He approached me, I did nothing more than tell him what it would take for him to acquire the players (a mistake I will not make again).
Issue I have with sending similarly terrible offers is that probably 3/4 of DFF owners think that they are "negotiating" when they do stuff like this. These people honestly don't see anything wrong with doing something like this and sending "similarly terrible offers" doesn't have any effect on them - if anything, they anchor down harder on their "opinion" and make the discussion even more grueling. I've actually found it's just better to ignore them. I have a few owners in my leagues whose emails I've blocked and they just go to my spam folder and their trades expire unresponded.
My brother always gets angry and sends back the worlds worst offers. I don't do that, as it doesn't really help at all. I either ignore them entirely and let them expire, or just tell them "not close". My brother enjoys that kind of trade sparring, and also enjoys the back and forth, whereas I don't, and generally send either my best and final first, or close to it. I'm a teacher and don't really have a ton of time to tweak deals back and forth.

I'd rather just send what I think is reasonable value based on market value stuff like the current ADP stuff, the analyzer etc and just get it done. I don't mind even losing a trade on current market value if I believe my valuation long term is more accurate. I sent a whole ton of "Im gonna lose this trade right now" Sony Michel offers starting in the early winter of 2018-2019 because I realized that I was just dead wrong in my eval six months earlier (I had the backs ranked 1. Barkley 2. Guice 3 Chubb 4 Michel 5 Penny 6 Kerryon) and needed to shed all my shares (think I got him on like 4 of my 9 dynasty teams at that time, and on a keeper team, ended up trading for him as well in a package that actually helped me win a title). I sent him packing successfully in five of the 6 leagues, and I think calculators said I lost pretty much all the trades at the time, but I felt I was getting out before the roof caved in on his value, so I was willing to add sweetners (Evan Engram in one trade for instance). A year later, and it looks like I won all of those trades (to be fair, a year earlier I panic traded McCaffrey off of all my teams. What's gone down as the worst trades I've ever made in 21 years of playing fantasy w/1 exception, otoh, at least I got value w/those picks (generally speaking I used the picks I got in those packages for Chubb (as they were usually in that 1.03-1.04 zone and Chubb was almost always available).

I guess for me, it just comes down to, I'm gonna be reasonable to just try and get it done, I'll generally send trades that are either 51/49 me, or 49/51 me w/me believing a year from now. If I can get away with a fantastic deal, I'll do it, as long as it doesnt break the rules (there's a pair of lunatics in two different leagues I played in, and when it became clear he didn't know what the hell dynasty was, it was like pirranha's and barracuda's shredding some cattle that chose the wrong spot to cross a river, I ended up getting his '18 and '20 1sts in different trades (Martavis Bryant and 2 3rds for his '18 1st (ended up being 1.06) in the summer of '17, and then again in the fall of '18 (trading my '19 1st (1.11) and a '19 2nd, for his 2020 1st (became 1.01), and his 2020 3rd (became 3.01). This is the kind of player who repeatedly will send offers like a 2020 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round picks for a 1st, not understanding that those picks have zero value, or just hoping for you to accidentally say yes (I've messaged the guy with WTF?!?!?! repeatedly, and since he never responds, I just offer him looney deals back and every once in a while I tailor it to his interests enough for him to make a stupid mistakes, like giving me his 2020 1st 20 months in advance, so he'd have a 1st to work with in 2019 (even though I knew it would suck, my team had the 1st or 2nd best roster, easy at the time, his was bottom 2 worst, and he had numerous wtf? trades in his rear view mirror suggesting little was likely to change in the short term anyway).

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby dlf_jeffs » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:52 pm

Woke up this morning to the stellar offer of his Kirk Cousins and Cohen for my Dak...

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby Mephistopheles » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:54 am

stoneghost28 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:02 pm
[

I'd rather just send what I think is reasonable value based on market value stuff like the current ADP stuff, the analyzer etc and just get it done. I don't mind even losing a trade on current market value if I believe my valuation long term is more accurate. I sent a whole ton of "Im gonna lose this trade right now" Sony Michel offers starting in the early winter of 2018-2019 because I realized that I was just dead wrong in my eval six months earlier (I had the backs ranked 1. Barkley 2. Guice 3 Chubb 4 Michel 5 Penny 6 Kerryon) and needed to shed all my shares (think I got him on like 4 of my 9 dynasty teams at that time, and on a keeper team, ended up trading for him as well in a package that actually helped me win a title). I sent him packing successfully in five of the 6 leagues, and I think calculators said I lost pretty much all the trades at the time, but I felt I was getting out before the roof caved in on his value, so I was willing to add sweetners (Evan Engram in one trade for instance). A year later, and it looks like I won all of those trades (to be fair, a year earlier I panic traded McCaffrey off of all my teams. What's gone down as the worst trades I've ever made in 21 years of playing fantasy w/1 exception, otoh, at least I got value w/those picks (generally speaking I used the picks I got in those packages for Chubb (as they were usually in that 1.03-1.04 zone and Chubb was almost always available).

I take the same approach. If somebody wants to acquire a player from me , I'll send them a quote that I think is fair, I don't try to gouge anybody. A lot of times I'll even double check the DLF trade analyzer to see if my valuation is far off and change it if it is. Sometimes if I want to offload a player or acquire a particular player, I'll take the low side from the trade analyzer. I don't have the time or desire to haggle over the price from a starting point like that one. I'd rather just hold on to the players (and I think that a lot of DFF owners conveniently ignore that that is a real option).

Most DFF owners these days think it's just a starting point, they want to battle to get the price down, and they don't have the skill to recognize a good price on a player. I see it a lot in my businesses when clients/customers get a quote or a price, they have no idea whether it's fair or not - they don't even know what they're trying to "negotiate" down to, just as long as it's less than the original quote - and just start haggling to get it down with no basis for haggling other than it's a first quote or first offer. Then they're stunned when we withdraw our initial quote and just decline to bid.

I have a guy in one of my leagues (R. Freeman owner) who asked after Phillip Lindsay back in August (5 months ago). His first offer was a 2021 3rd round pick. I quoted him either Ekeler (I have Gordon) or a 2020 late 1st. Even offered to condition the 2020 pick (drop it to an early 2nd) if it was top 4. He has pestered me every week since then ( I stopped responding to him in September - my last message was "You know the price to get Lindsay. I'm not rehashing this again.") but his latest offer was Kaden Smith and a late 2020 4th.

Life is too short and this hobby just isn't that lucrative for most of us to dick around with bleep like this.
PSA - Haggling is NOT the same as negotiating.

From the home office in Grand Rapids, MI, the Top 5 signs you suck as a trade partner (and probably as a human being)

5. You can name or fabricate 5 risks on every player not on your team.
4. You always respond that you don't value another team's players as highly as they do.
3. You steer conversations away from ADP or any other form of consensus or rankings to gauge trade value.
2. Your trade strategy centers around seeing where someone's at on a player or that "it's just a first offer".
1. Your trade offers are rejected without counter or outright ignored.
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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby ColdZealDonkeyStrike » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:15 am

dlf_jeffs wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:52 pm
Woke up this morning to the stellar offer of his Kirk Cousins and Cohen for my Dak...
One QB or 2? Seems like a fine offer in 1QB.
Dynasty player since 2002.
I probably should have done something more productive with that time...

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Re: 2020 BAD Trade Offers

Postby Jigga94 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:37 am

ColdZealDonkeyStrike wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:15 am
dlf_jeffs wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:52 pm
Woke up this morning to the stellar offer of his Kirk Cousins and Cohen for my Dak...
One QB or 2? Seems like a fine offer in 1QB.
x2 definitely doesn't belong here
2QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, FLEX - PPR - [b]14 Keepers[/b]
QB: Mahomes, J. Allen, Baker, D. Jones, Eason
RB: JT, Mostert, Gaskin, Dillon, Gus, Mattison, McFarland, Snell, Wilson, McKissic, Darrel
WR: Tyreek, DJM, Jeudy, Hollywood, Cooks, Mims, Hardman, Preston, Parris
TE: Andrews, Fant, Henry
2021: 1.10, 2, 3, 4, 5.08, 5.10, 6, 7, 9, 10

2QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 3FLEX - PPR - [b]20 Keepers[/b]
QB: [b]Mahomes, Ryan,[/b] Minshew, Trubisky, Mariota
RB: [b]Saquon, Jacobs, Dobbins, Hunt,[/b] Penny, Snell
WR: [b]AJB, DJM, Chark, Ruggs, Hardman, Mike Will, C. Davis, C. Samuel,[/b] G. Davis, Mooney, Lazard, J. Washington
TE: [b]Andrews, Henry, Gesicki, Tonyan,[/b] Irv
2021: 1.03, 2.05, 2.09, 3.05, 3.09
2022: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3


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