2020 BAD Trade Offers

[skinfanjon]

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Anyway, this is a clear, and quite massive example of agree to disagree.
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Yes.

[murphysxm]

I agree w/your first point. Generally people just look for guys they want and send offers. However, if you're sending an offer like that, a cursory review would make sense because you'd know instantly your wasting your time.

I'd disagree w/your latter points. This isn't redraft, it's dynasty, the age curves with RB's are clear, age 25/26 is peak, after that, it's downhill in general w/only rare exceptions these days (AP, Ingram) and those exceptions are becoming more rare, rather than more common over time. You keep trying to sell the argument that you've got a megaback in Ingram, and I keep trying to remind you that Ingram will turn 31 in December in a league where RB's that age are nearly an extinct species, add in that if Jackson goes down, Ingram's production craters, add in that Baltimore might grab a RB this year considering he's a cut candidate this year and especially in '21, add in that Ingram was a non-entity in '18, and middling in '17.

I've seen worse offers myself, but this is an awful trade offer, period. Not caring about what the Calculator, what DLF ADP has to say is kinda insane to me as well. DLF ADP/that Analyzer they made is the market place. Ingram is basically about to fall into the 9th round with the potential to completely crater if Baltimore goes after a RB on day 1/2, Sutton has climbed up to just a touch below round 2, w/zero QB support to boot.

DLF ADP tells you that the RB's just a touch above and below include the big 3 from the 2020 class (Taylor, Swift, Dobbins), as well as guys like Sanders, Jacobs, and Fournette (who is not returning that, at all, in trades in the offseason, he and Aaron Jones are guys with high ADP's that nobody wants to buy). If I were to trade Sutton, why would I trade him, and Corey Davis (essentially for free, who is god awful thus far, but for free?) for a RB that could be done in '21, when I can currently trade him for a top 10 current RB, or a top 3 RB from this class?

It makes no sense at all, especially when you consider that his age, and tenuous hold on that job, and the offense he is used in is so potentially volatile in value if the QB goes down, compared to other teams. There's a million reasons not to do it, and 2019 is the only reason to do it (from the Ingram perspective), and it still doesnt make sense. Probably the best example of why, is nobody is trading the 3.02 and 11.10 in a startup for a late 8th rounder, and a 14th rounder, and a 2021 3rd round rookie pick, literally nobody. That kind of sums it up.

Anyway, this is a clear, and quite massive example of agree to disagree.

Or just maybe other people don''t agree with your assesment of players and your feelings got hurt that we didn't all jump on your bandwagon stating it is terrible trade offer. Ease up partner

[Jigga94]

Lol says they don't get offended. Writes an essay about how it's a bad offer

[killer_of_giants]

When people say "it's just an opening offer", they really mean "I'm testing the waters to see if you're stupid enough to do this".

yeah.
nothing wrong with that, either.

[slaughterrt]

A joke of a proposal like this is NOT an opening offer. In my opinion it is a closing offer. Meaning that these negotiations are shutting down before they even get started.

[stoneghost28]

Or just maybe other people don''t agree with your assesment of players and your feelings got hurt that we didn't all jump on your bandwagon stating it is terrible trade offer. Ease up partner

No, I'm just long winded, and opinionated, and at times that can be a terrible combination. Feelings are immaterial. Additionally I'm using facts for my argument with regard to market value based upon current startup ADP, and this sites analyzer which is the most thorough vetting system we have currently, even if it is flawed. So while this is an opinion piece, it's also backed by market based evidence, rather than a tiny sample size of the 2019 season.

[stoneghost28]

Lol says they don't get offended. Writes an essay about how it's a bad offer

In my case I think I was pretty specific about the fact that it's difficult to avoid being annoyed at what one perceives as bad/truly horrible offers as it can feel like someone is beginning with the idea that you're an idiot, and they're trying to take advantage of you. I realize some just prefer to use this as the starting point for trading, but in threads about trade offers it's quite clear that somewhere between a majority, or at least not insignificant minority of players do get offended by offers that are ridiculous (either to their perception, or based on market values) and if this is true, it's probably a bad strategy, period, to do this, as it can shut down give and take, and in worst case scenarios, lead to some owners not even offering you future trades. I don't think that's a positive thing. Which is why I offered him a counter, and why he laughed afterwards, and to paraphrase, basically said, "well, was worth a shot."

[Mephistopheles]

When people say "it's just an opening offer", they really mean "I'm testing the waters to see if you're stupid enough to do this".

yeah.
nothing wrong with that, either.

Only if you're a troll that really doesn't want to do a trade unless you bleep somebody over.

If there's a legit objective here (e.g. acquiring Sutton or moving Ingram/Sanders), this offer effectively ends any possibility that the other side works with him/her to achieve it. Also, depending on how often this party sends out offers like this, it reduces the likelihood he gets someone to work with him on a trade agreement.

Idiots like this (the one that sent the Ingram offer to stoneghost) are usually the first to complain about the "lack of activity" in leagues...and they're causing it.

[Mephistopheles]

A joke of a proposal like this is NOT an opening offer. In my opinion it is a closing offer. Meaning that these negotiations are shutting down before they even get started.

X2

[killer_of_giants]

When people say "it's just an opening offer", they really mean "I'm testing the waters to see if you're stupid enough to do this".

yeah.
nothing wrong with that, either.

Only if you're a troll that really doesn't want to do a trade unless you bleep somebody over.

If there's a legit objective here (e.g. acquiring Sutton or moving Ingram/Sanders), this offer effectively ends any possibility that the other side works with him/her to achieve it. Also, depending on how often this party sends out offers like this, it reduces the likelihood he gets someone to work with him on a trade agreement.

Idiots like this (the one that sent the Ingram offer to stoneghost) are usually the first to complain about the "lack of activity" in leagues...and they're causing it.

but i want to know who the idiots are!

and if there aren't, it's probably me

[stoneghost28]

When people say "it's just an opening offer", they really mean "I'm testing the waters to see if you're stupid enough to do this".

yeah.
nothing wrong with that, either.

Only if you're a troll that really doesn't want to do a trade unless you bleep somebody over.

If there's a legit objective here (e.g. acquiring Sutton or moving Ingram/Sanders), this offer effectively ends any possibility that the other side works with him/her to achieve it. Also, depending on how often this party sends out offers like this, it reduces the likelihood he gets someone to work with him on a trade agreement.

Idiots like this (the one that sent the Ingram offer to stoneghost) are usually the first to complain about the "lack of activity" in leagues...and they're causing it.

That's what I felt as well, based on my perception of market value, based on actual market value as shown by DLF's ADP tool and analyzer tool, as well as a zillion other sources. That being said, there's clearly at least 2-3 owners, based on this thread, that wouldn't have found it absurd, and might have been able to get a deal done w/it as a starting point, so there's that argument for the other side. But yeah, from my perspective, it would nearly make him a "no chance" owner to deal with for me. What's amusing is that after proposing a deal that he would have won based on the analyzer 700+ to 280ish, I sent an offer that I would win 652.9 to 645 (Diontae, 1.07 and 2021 1st for AJ Brown and my 2020 2.10) and it was an instant autoreject.

No better way to show an owner isn't interested in reasonable back and forth than that.

[BigBawseRoss]

i send jonathan taylor and laviska shenault and get KJ and a toss in droppable player.

[Patsfan86]

I know this trade may not be considered bad by some AND i know some hardos on this forum are only looking for trades that everyone would consider atrocious to be posted on this thread, i got that but i dont care lol. I got a trade that i personally thought was insultingly bad, like the guy was trying to get one over on me that i want to share and hear thoughts, and this is probably the best thread to do it.

Give Gallup and James White

Get Kareem Hunt and Edelman

Main reason i thought this was awful is because Gallups ADP is a full 2 rounds in a 12 team league higher than Hunt and that i shouldnt have to add a damn thing to Gallup.

[killer_of_giants]

I know this trade may not be considered bad by some AND i know some hardos on this forum are only looking for trades that everyone would consider atrocious to be posted on this thread, i got that but i dont care lol.

i know you don't care, but i don't care that you don't care.
it is bad, could be worked on, some people are high on hunt, this thread hasn't improved thanks to your post, if you got offended by that you are a touch sensible.

[Hottoddies]

I know this trade may not be considered bad by some AND i know some hardos on this forum are only looking for trades that everyone would consider atrocious to be posted on this thread, i got that but i dont care lol. I got a trade that i personally thought was insultingly bad, like the guy was trying to get one over on me that i want to share and hear thoughts, and this is probably the best thread to do it.

Give Gallup and James White

Get Kareem Hunt and Edelman

Main reason i thought this was awful is because Gallups ADP is a full 2 rounds in a 12 team league higher than Hunt and that i shouldnt have to add a damn thing to Gallup.

There's a fairly wide variance on Kareem Hunt's value these days. While I wouldn't accept this deal, I wouldn't call it outrageously bad. I see it more as a very timid inquiry into you valuation of Hunt. Just respond and let him know where you value Hunt.