So...what is the point of trading?

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Goddard
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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby Goddard » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:12 am

I don't think anyone's telling you to trade Gurley for a 3rd or Hopkins for a 2nd. Those are terrible offers and it sounds like you play in a terrible league where the other owners don't know what they're doing if those are the offers you're getting. In your case, trading obviously isn't essential when you already have a good team. I still think it can help make teams even better, but that's a different story. But for teams who are trying to rebuild or make a push for the playoffs or just simply trying to improve an average team, drafting and waivers aren't going to get it done in most competitive leagues with average size rosters.

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby briank » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:17 am

Mephistopheles wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:32 am
briank wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:48 am
Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:57 am



Mind elaborating, please? Where is the "significant disadvantage"?
Two of my best teams are built 95-99% through the draft and free agency. One is going to win a 3rd straight chip this year.
I just see no advantage to trading other than the enjoyment of getting a shiny new toy, and when leaguemates suck the fun out of that, it almost becomes pointless.
Sure. Simply, trading is by far the best way to build value in dynasty. Maybe you're just not very good at trading.
Yeah, it must be that...I'm a shitty trader because I won't trade DeAndre Hopkins for a 2nd round pick (which BTW I was offered earlier this year)...SMFH. :wall:

Plus, if I draft Wilson and Hopkins in a startup, draft Tyreek in the 4th, Diggs in the 3rd, Mahomes in the 3rd, McLaurin in the 3rd, Aaron Jones in the 3rd (or 4th I don't remember which), Marlon Mack in the 2nd, and pick up Chris Godwin, Lindsay, Austin Hooper, and James Conner from waivers, plus all my first round picks..all while doing one trade in 7 years (DJ for M. Thomas and a pick after DJ's big year)...that must be one hell of a shitty team, huh?

The thesis is that trading is not essential to success in the game, rather it is ancillary to success. In essence, if somebody wants to not trade (or severely cut back the efforts required to trade), they can focus efforts in other areas (i.e. scouting college talent) and achieve the same levels of success in this game without the frustration and aggravation of having to argue over player values (especially when leaguemates consistently lowball and understate player values).

So as an example. If someone will only give me a 3rd round pick for Gurley (as was offered to me earlier this year) and that's the only return I can get for Gurley...but the odds are, say 90%, that Gurley projects to provide a starter quality production over the next 3-5 years (which is the cycle on which I structure my teams) but only, say 10%, that the 3rd rounder produces at the same level, why would I not keep the player - assuming I'm in it to win it?

The problem lies not within whether trading is a part of a strategy...it is...but rather whether it is absolutely essential to a strategy, which I think it is not and those efforts that owners devote to trades are much better diverted to team structure through the draft and FA. That's potentially dangerous thinking for people who are used to taking advantage of people in trades.
Hello Mr. Strawman,

No, I'm not saying you should trade just to trade. Of course you can have some success without trading. Can you have extended success without trading? Drafting well consistently while consistently winning is very difficult without trading.

What I'm saying is, you should not intentionally limit yourself. That is an awful strategy.

If the other owners in your league only make lopsided trades, find a new league. If you don't like trading, why do you play in a dynasty league?

I've brought a team with almost zero value back from the dead in just 2 seasons largely because of trading. This wasn't from trades that were viewed as taking advantage of other owners either. Also, this was a league I'm no longer in because of how difficult it was to trade with owners that either didn't respond to offers or didn't know how to properly value players.
2019 Champion 12 team PPR 1-2QB 2-5RB 2-5WR 1-4TE start 9
QB: Mayfield, Winston, Newton, Keenum, Stidham
RB: Mixon, A. Jones, Miller, Jamaal Williams, Edwards, Bernard, Gallman, Pollard, AP
WR: Hopkins, Thomas, DJ Moore, Jeffery, Preston Williams, Ginn, Perriman
TE: Ertz, Cook, Gesicki, Hurst
20 Picks: 5.12

24 team 2 copy PPR TE 1.5 PPFD 1-2QB 1-7RB 1-7WR 1-7TE start 10
QB: Mahomes, Watson, Tannehill, Fitzpatrick, Flacco
RB: Mixon, Carson, Murray, Jamaal Williams, Mattison, Hines, Barber, Washington, Harris
WR: Evans, Woods, Cooks, Fuller, Miller, Diontae Johnson, Ross, Reynolds, Ginn, Gage
TE: Andrews, Brate
20 Picks: 4.21 , 5.21

24 team 2 copy PPR TE 1.5 PPFD 1-2QB 1-7RB 1-7WR 1-7TE start 10
QB: Mahomes, Murray, Trubisky, Grier, Bortles, Hill
RB: Jacobs, Bernard, Lewis, Washington, Hill
WR: Diggs, Cooks, Moore, AJ Brown, Marquis Brown, Davis, Harmon, Reynolds, Boykin, Meyers
TE: Engram, Njoku, Irv Smith, Everett, Hurst
20 Picks: 1.06, 1.10,1.18, 2.02, 2.09, 4.02, 5.02

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby steelman » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:19 am

A lot of trades I've done over the years are the present for the future. Either I'm trading picks away for aging/declining players who can help me win now but have declining value moving forward, or I'm doing the opposite. You hope to win the trade now and your trading partner hopes to win it in the future. Both parties can end up winners.

Or I might trade from a position of strength, such as WR, for a position that I'm weak at, such as RB. If I'm stacked at WR, why not package Arob and Tyler Lockett for Dalvin Cook (just an example).

Trades are possible without having to fleece anyone.

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby Lotto4Life » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:33 am

Haven't read this thread yet, but I'll go ahead and chime in that the point of trading for me is to win. Not to win the trade, but to win the most money/league championships. I've both "overpaid" and "underpaid" for players I want. I'll typically overpay if I'm in a situation to win immediately. I'll typically hold out for an overpay on the other side if I'm rebuilding.

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby JOHNNY_COCKTAIL » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:17 pm

Trading is essential to how I do dynasty. Not everyone has to be that way but that and being a waiver wire hound is how I build teams. I think it is vital to building a league winner to be able to buy low on guys at the right time, and sell high on guys at the right time. That might be considered deceiving someone but that's part of it. Its strategy to Target fans of a particular team, owners who overvalue a position, those who overvalue picks. Building capital is the name of the game. In a rebuild it's even more important. You can't stick with guys like Julio in a rebuild that keep your team from getting a good pick and won't be around when your team is good

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby Orenthal Shames » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:41 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:32 am
briank wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:48 am
Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:57 am



Mind elaborating, please? Where is the "significant disadvantage"?
Two of my best teams are built 95-99% through the draft and free agency. One is going to win a 3rd straight chip this year.
I just see no advantage to trading other than the enjoyment of getting a shiny new toy, and when leaguemates suck the fun out of that, it almost becomes pointless.
Sure. Simply, trading is by far the best way to build value in dynasty. Maybe you're just not very good at trading.
Yeah, it must be that...I'm a shitty trader because I won't trade DeAndre Hopkins for a 2nd round pick (which BTW I was offered earlier this year)...SMFH. :wall:

Plus, if I draft Wilson and Hopkins in a startup, draft Tyreek in the 4th, Diggs in the 3rd, Mahomes in the 3rd, McLaurin in the 3rd, Aaron Jones in the 3rd (or 4th I don't remember which), Marlon Mack in the 2nd, and pick up Chris Godwin, Lindsay, Austin Hooper, and James Conner from waivers, plus all my first round picks..all while doing one trade in 7 years (DJ for M. Thomas and a pick after DJ's big year)...that must be one hell of a shitty team, huh?

The thesis is that trading is not essential to success in the game, rather it is ancillary to success. In essence, if somebody wants to not trade (or severely cut back the efforts required to trade), they can focus efforts in other areas (i.e. scouting college talent) and achieve the same levels of success in this game without the frustration and aggravation of having to argue over player values (especially when leaguemates consistently lowball and understate player values).

So as an example. If someone will only give me a 3rd round pick for Gurley (as was offered to me earlier this year) and that's the only return I can get for Gurley...but the odds are, say 90%, that Gurley projects to provide a starter quality production over the next 3-5 years (which is the cycle on which I structure my teams) but only, say 10%, that the 3rd rounder produces at the same level, why would I not keep the player - assuming I'm in it to win it?

The problem lies not within whether trading is a part of a strategy...it is...but rather whether it is absolutely essential to a strategy, which I think it is not and those efforts that owners devote to trades are much better diverted to team structure through the draft and FA. That's potentially dangerous thinking for people who are used to taking advantage of people in trades.
#triggered
16 team league
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex (RB/WR/TE)
26 man rosters - full point ppr
2015, 17, 18, 19 Champion

QB: Winston, Dalton
RB: Kamara, Gurley, Sanders
WR: Julio, OBJ, Keenan, Fuller
TE: Kelce, Kittle

2020: 1.05

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby Go Bucks » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:06 pm

briank wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:48 am
Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:57 am
briank wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:59 pm

I didn't read your diatribe, but I will say that you are putting yourself at a significant disadvantage if you are unwilling, or even less inclined to trade.

Mind elaborating, please? Where is the "significant disadvantage"?
Two of my best teams are built 95-99% through the draft and free agency. One is going to win a 3rd straight chip this year.
I just see no advantage to trading other than the enjoyment of getting a shiny new toy, and when leaguemates suck the fun out of that, it almost becomes pointless.
Sure. Simply, trading is by far the best way to build value in dynasty. Maybe you're just not very good at trading.
You nailed it. Was in a league with OP and he managed to alienate half the league with his lowball offers. Then whined that nobody would counter his offers. Now he comes here to whine. Talk about having zero self-awareness.

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby bjd5211 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:09 pm

Go Bucks wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:06 pm
briank wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:48 am
Mephistopheles wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:57 am



Mind elaborating, please? Where is the "significant disadvantage"?
Two of my best teams are built 95-99% through the draft and free agency. One is going to win a 3rd straight chip this year.
I just see no advantage to trading other than the enjoyment of getting a shiny new toy, and when leaguemates suck the fun out of that, it almost becomes pointless.
Sure. Simply, trading is by far the best way to build value in dynasty. Maybe you're just not very good at trading.
You nailed it. Was in a league with OP and he managed to alienate half the league with his lowball offers. Then whined that nobody would counter his offers. Now he comes here to whine. Talk about having zero self-awareness.

Lol, I called it.

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby Phaded » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:14 pm

"What a twist!"..

Truly.

Also if I could get the Chris Godwins of the world off waivers, then yeah I'm going to feel like I don't need to trade to build a good team.

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby lukkynumber13 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:48 am

briank wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:17 am
What I'm saying is, you should not intentionally limit yourself. That is an awful strategy.
:clap: :clap: :clap:

This right here.
TEAM A - 12 teams (19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
BREES, Jimmy G, Haskins, Lock, Keenum
COOK/JACOBS/BELL, Gurley, D Washington, Shady, Gio, Gallman, M Davis, Rodney A
NUK/HILL/EVANS/GOLLADAY/K ALLEN, Hilton, Edelman, Wims, Dez
KITTLE, Waller, Irv, Akins, Graham
-
Not listing my IDP, but they matter as much as offense in this league
///
///
TEAM B - 32 teams, double copy - TEs get slight bump in scoring
GOFF, Darnold, Brissett, Tyrod
SAQUON/MIXON, Gallman, L Miller
NUK/EVANS/OBJ/K ALLEN/THIELEN, Hollywood, Edelman, R Anderson, A Tate, Coutee
KITTLE/ENGRAM, Ian Thomas, James O
-
Danielle Hunter, Aaron Donald, and Chris Jones are the cornerstones of my IDP squad. LBs and DBs are rag tag for now.

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby trc » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:54 am

bjd5211 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:09 pm
Go Bucks wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:06 pm
briank wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:48 am


Sure. Simply, trading is by far the best way to build value in dynasty. Maybe you're just not very good at trading.
You nailed it. Was in a league with OP and he managed to alienate half the league with his lowball offers. Then whined that nobody would counter his offers. Now he comes here to whine. Talk about having zero self-awareness.

Lol, I called it.
Got the same vibe from the start of the tread.
It sure is strange that the same person experience bad responses from several owners accross leagues, without that person is having the same behavior.
12 team ppr | 0.5 per reception | 4pts pass TD | 6pts rec/rush TD | 1pts per 25 passing yard | 1 pts per 10 rec/rush yard
Start: 1QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB/WR/TE

QBs: Mahomes - Garoppolo - Teddy B
RBs: Zeke - Chubb - Gio - Ito Smith - Mark Walton - Darrell Williams - Crowell - Gaskin
WRs: OBJ - Kupp - Godwin - DJ Chark - Sammy Watkins - Corey Davis - N'Keal Harry - JJAW - DT
TEs: Jonnu Smith - Herndon - Trey Burton

Rebuild progress -> http://forum.dynastyleaguefootball.com/ ... 6&t=150498


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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby ArrylT » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:11 am

As with anything - there are always going to be situations where one aspect of the dynasty / fantasy football 4 pillars is not deemed necessary.

1 - drafting
2 - waiver work
3 - trading
4 - lineups (except in bestball)

And every owner is going to make a decision based off of their experiences - to me the key is to realize that what works for one owner may not work for another owner because most leagues / situations may seem similar but can actually be quite different.

I think it was best said above that an owner can choose not to do trading, or any of the other 3 pillars, and still be successful (yes I have seen teams make & win playoffs even with minimal to no lineup adjustments). But choosing to intentionally handicap oneself is generally not a good strategy.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby perkinsrooster » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:33 am

I can't believe this is still going on. What is the point of trading?....really??

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Re: So...what is the point of trading?

Postby jonf86 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:56 am

Figure out what you're good at and lean on those skills as you develop your teams. I trade very frequently, but I consider myself to be skilled at trading and roster construction and less so with drafting and scouting.

As far as dealing with stubborn owners, who cares? If you want to trade, test the market and work with the more reasonable owners. If you get a rude response or unreasonable request, move onto one of the other 10 or 12 other teams.
QB: D. Watson, T. Taylor, J. Driskel, J. Johnson, C. Rush, N. Sudfeld, M. White
RB: C. McCaffrey, C. Carson, K. Johnson, R. Penny, J. Samuels, D. Pumphrey
WR: J.J. Smith-Schuster, R. Woods, L. Fitzgerald, J. Nelson, M. Gallup R. Switzer, B. Berrios, C. Batson, R. Higgins, J. Kearse
TE: G. Kittle, I. Thomas, J Doyle, W. Dissly, J. Leggett, J. Gresham, T. Conklin
16 Team Dynasty (PPR). Lineup: QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, WR, TE, TE, FLEX, SFLEX
2018 Champs

QB: M. Stafford, J. Garoppolo
RB: I. Crowell, J. Williams, A. Abdullah, C.J. Anderson
WR: C. Godwin, D.J. Moore, W. Fuller, M. Valdez-Scantling, D.J. Chark, E. St. Brown, J. Kumerow, R. Higgins, C. Meredith, J. Kearse
TE: D. Njoku, H. Henry, C. Herndon, G. Everett, I. Thomas, J. Leggett, W. Dissly
14 Team SuperFlex Dynasty TE 1.5 PPR and .15PPY, WR PPR, RB .25PPC and .5PPR, QB: 4 Point TDs
Lineup: QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, TE, FLEX, FLEX, OP


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