Lamar Jackson is the best QB in the NFL & Fantasy

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
ninotoreS
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5092
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:56 pm

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby ninotoreS » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:56 am

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:01 pm Pretty much agree with this, but I will add he should be looked at more like a RB as opposed to a QB in regards to Dynasty outlook and longevity when evaluating him as an "asset" IMO.
Yes, agreed. If I'm a long-term Lamar dynasty owner (so, everything goes to plan and he becomes a perennial fantasy QB1), ideally I ride him until around age 28, then look to cash him in and move on to other options at QB.
Cult of Dionysus wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:16 pm The dude is too thin to run it a lot. He ain't got the BMI for it.
So it would seem, but

- he had 655 carries in college
- his only reported injury was a grade 1 ankle sprain his first year
- despite de facto bellcow work, his efficiency as a ball-carrier improved every year

Also including sacks and knockdowns on passing plays, Jackson was hit frequently and routinely in college, and weathered it with aplomb.

BMI is a guideline, rather than a rule. A rare few in the lower percentiles can be as durable as anyone. Evidence thus far indicates Jackson is one of them.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure."
- Sun Tzu, 469 BCE

TheNuts
Captain
Captain
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 4:56 am

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby TheNuts » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:21 pm

There just aren't that many examples of players with as poor of accuracy as Jackson becoming a legit passer.
12 team ppr 4 point pass td

Murray, Minshew
Singletary, Lindsay, Samuels, Ty Johnson
Chark, Arob, Woods, Diontae, Nkeal, Lazard, Conley, Cole, Dorsett
Higbee, Jarwin, Dissly
Gould, Patriots

14 team ppr superflex, .2 ppc, WR 25% ppr bonus, TE ppr bonus 75%

Mayfield, Minshew, Trubisky, Foles, Hill
Djohns, Singletary, Fournette, Harris, Armstead, Ogunbawale, Samuels
Julio, Arob, Woods, Sims Jr, Claypool, Duvernay, Isabella, Conley, Tyrell
Waller, Hurst, Jarwin, Boyle

12 team ppr 4 point pass td, superflex, 1.5 TE ppr

Goff, Minshew, Hill, Alllen, Walker
Chubb, Taylor, Henry, Singletary, David Johnson, Damien Harris, Hyde, Boone, Blasingame
Tyreek, Boyd, Diontae, Marvin Jones, Pittman, Nkeal, Duvernay, Sims Jr, Stills
Waller, Higbee, Arnold, Olsen, Parkinson, Sample

20 team ppr 6 point pass td, .05 point per return yard

Matt Ryan
Fournette, Singletary, Harris, Cohen, Duke Johnson, Trey Edmunds
Davante Adams, Tyreek, Sutton, Boyd, Dorsett, Tyrell
Kittle, Jarwin, Oliver

Pullo Vision
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 7557
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Pullo Vision » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:49 am

ArryIT posted this link in another thread, but I wanted to highlight another aspect- http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... d-get-paid

Bucky Brooks speculates the team could go full on running and fully commit to their offense. He also points out that, in letting Flacco go, retaining RG3 and drafting McSorley, they have three QBs who can function in their offense without needing a massive scheme change.
League #1- 14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1K
1 DT, 2 DE, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 S, 1 flex

League #2- 12 team PPR, 1Q, 1R, 2W, 1T, 1 R/W/T, 1 W/R/T, 1 Def

League #3- 12 tm PPR, 1Q, 0R (yes, ZERO RB) 3W, 1T, 2 R/W/T flex, 1 Def

User avatar
Cult of Dionysus
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:02 am

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:11 am

ninotoreS wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:56 am
Cult of Dionysus wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:16 pm The dude is too thin to run it a lot. He ain't got the BMI for it.
So it would seem, but

- he had 655 carries in college
- his only reported injury was a grade 1 ankle sprain his first year
- despite de facto bellcow work, his efficiency as a ball-carrier improved every year

Also including sacks and knockdowns on passing plays, Jackson was hit frequently and routinely in college, and weathered it with aplomb.

BMI is a guideline, rather than a rule. A rare few in the lower percentiles can be as durable as anyone. Evidence thus far indicates Jackson is one of them.
Night and day difference between college and NFL defenses when it comes to doling out punishment.

Sriracha
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3698
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:38 pm

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Sriracha » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:20 pm

Cult of Dionysus wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:11 am
ninotoreS wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:56 am
Cult of Dionysus wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:16 pm The dude is too thin to run it a lot. He ain't got the BMI for it.
So it would seem, but

- he had 655 carries in college
- his only reported injury was a grade 1 ankle sprain his first year
- despite de facto bellcow work, his efficiency as a ball-carrier improved every year

Also including sacks and knockdowns on passing plays, Jackson was hit frequently and routinely in college, and weathered it with aplomb.

BMI is a guideline, rather than a rule. A rare few in the lower percentiles can be as durable as anyone. Evidence thus far indicates Jackson is one of them.
Night and day difference between college and NFL defenses when it comes to doling out punishment.
jackson is just so shifty in space that defenders never get a good shot at him. Running as much as he does his injury risk is still high, but it's not because of his BMI. It's because running the football in the NFL is a punishing endeavor.

User avatar
ArrylT
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 9530
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby ArrylT » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:26 pm

Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

Chwf3rd
Captain
Captain
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:44 pm

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Chwf3rd » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:45 pm

https://twitter.com/PFF_Mike/status/1111319959978823683

Good thread by Mike Renner of PFF with lots of clips showing Jackson's accuracy problems
Team 1 - 12 team PPR
QB: MRyan, MJones, CNewton, RFitz
RB: SBarkley, DSwift, CAkers, JMixon, AJDillon, LMurray, DarWilliams, GBernard
WR: SDiggs, ACooper, BAiyuk, JJones, LShenault, BCooks, KToney, KHamler, VJefferson
TE: JSmith, ISmith, ZErtz

Team 2 - 16 team, PPR, SF
QB: JBurrow, CWentz, ZWilson, Jimmy G
RB: SBarkley, DSwift, CAkers, BSnell, TGurley, DGuice
WR: JChase, BAiyuk, CSutton, THiggins, JJeudy, JReagor, BEdwards
TE: ISmith, HarBryant, DSample, TTremble

User avatar
ArrylT
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 9530
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby ArrylT » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:14 pm

Thanks for sharing - much appreciated. :)
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

Sriracha
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3698
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:38 pm

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Sriracha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:21 pm

I'll use PFF as a data resource, but take anything they say with a grain of salt. There's so much inconsistency with how their analyst draw conclusions that they're actual analysis on their own data is pretty much worthless.

No one said Lamar Jackson's accuracy in year 1 wasn't a problem. He was quantifiable a bottom 2 NFL QB in terms of accuracy. The question is: will thatt trend continue?

Chwf3rd
Captain
Captain
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:44 pm

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Chwf3rd » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:43 pm

IZigUZag wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:21 pm I'll use PFF as a data resource, but take anything they say with a grain of salt. There's so much inconsistency with how their analyst draw conclusions that they're actual analysis on their own data is pretty much worthless.

No one said Lamar Jackson's accuracy in year 1 wasn't a problem. He was quantifiable a bottom 2 NFL QB in terms of accuracy. The question is: will thatt trend continue?
That's fine but it matches up pretty well with just watching him play football.

My Conclusion on Him: he'll be great for fantasy whenever he plays because of the running but I don't think he'll last long as an NFL starting QB. Thus, I love him in redraft and 1QB dynasty because the the risk of him failing isn't that high as it's easy to just grab another QB. However, in 2QB and SF he's a giant avoid because the value of a solid, low risk, long term starter is much greater because of the scarcity at the position. If you're relying on Jackson as one of you're main QBs you're asking for trouble in a couple of years.
Team 1 - 12 team PPR
QB: MRyan, MJones, CNewton, RFitz
RB: SBarkley, DSwift, CAkers, JMixon, AJDillon, LMurray, DarWilliams, GBernard
WR: SDiggs, ACooper, BAiyuk, JJones, LShenault, BCooks, KToney, KHamler, VJefferson
TE: JSmith, ISmith, ZErtz

Team 2 - 16 team, PPR, SF
QB: JBurrow, CWentz, ZWilson, Jimmy G
RB: SBarkley, DSwift, CAkers, BSnell, TGurley, DGuice
WR: JChase, BAiyuk, CSutton, THiggins, JJeudy, JReagor, BEdwards
TE: ISmith, HarBryant, DSample, TTremble

Sriracha
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3698
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:38 pm

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Sriracha » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:45 pm

Chwf3rd wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:43 pm My Conclusion on Him: he'll be great for fantasy whenever he plays because of the running but I don't think he'll last long as an NFL starting QB. Thus, I love him in redraft and 1QB dynasty because the the risk of him failing isn't that high as it's easy to just grab another QB. However, in 2QB and SF he's a giant avoid because the value of a solid, low risk, long term starter is much greater because of the scarcity at the position. If you're relying on Jackson as one of you're main QBs you're asking for trouble in a couple of years.
I'm in wait and see mode for him in Superflex leagues; but I do think he's being undervalued in redraft. If he improves as a passer (and given that many of his accuracy issues seem to stem from poor mechanics that are correctable, and that he's literally improved in this area for 4 years running; that's a realistic possibility) he could be a top 5 QB this season.

But given that many QB's that come into the league with mechanical issues never (consistently) correct them I'm not bullish on his NFL prospects. Agreed for the most part.. he'll have to prove that he's NFL ready as a passer before I'll feel comfortable taking him in Superflex.

User avatar
DLF3000
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2348
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:19 am

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby DLF3000 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:06 pm

Somewhat like Trubisky, Jackson confuses me - not sure if they're any good yet.

But since things change quickly in the NFL and we maddeningly get things wrong all the time, I took a rare shot on this passing offense and Jackson by taking Boykin in round 3 this weekend.

So yeah, that Boykin dart throw means I'm far more interested than I ever was in watching Jackson play and develop - this thread alone has been helpful.
35 Team Dyn PPR, 3 x Copy SF start 2TE Super Prem (TE 2 PPR, 8pt TD), 6 pt/non-TE TD, 1pt/20 yds pass (300 +3pt), 1pt/10 yds rush/rec (100 +3pt)

Start 12: 1QB 1SFLX 2RB 4WR 2TE 2FLX | 30 Active Roster, unlim Taxi, 3 IR/Out (+) | est. '21 | playoffs '21, '22

QB - J Allen, T Lawrence ...
RB - A Ekeler, S Barkley, J Cook, I Pacheco ...
WR - AJ Brown, C Ridley, G Pickens, C Sutton ...
TE - D Njoku, D Knox ...
® 2024 - | 2025 -

User avatar
ArrylT
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 9530
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby ArrylT » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:08 am

Well whether or not you feel Lamar Jackson is a complete QB it seems like his teammates are fully behind him.

https://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-rav ... ete-leader
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

User avatar
Pac_Eddy
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5049
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:12 pm

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:04 am

DLF3000 wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:06 pm Somewhat like Trubisky, Jackson confuses me - not sure if they're any good yet.

But since things change quickly in the NFL and we maddeningly get things wrong all the time, I took a rare shot on this passing offense and Jackson by taking Boykin in round 3 this weekend.

So yeah, that Boykin dart throw means I'm far more interested than I ever was in watching Jackson play and develop - this thread alone has been helpful.
That's what has happened to me. In one rookie draft, I was able to nab both Marquise Brown and Miles Boykin. Wasn't targeting them, but they kept dropping and the value was too good to pass up. So now I have to pay attention to Lamar Jackson.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

bjd5211
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5615
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am

Re: *MYTH* Lamar Jackson will never be a good passer

Postby bjd5211 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:30 pm



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 13 guests