colin kaepernick

[jenkins.math]

Tim Tebow is probably not the best example for you to use for your point as you could argue he was prematurely removed from the league because teams did not want to deal with the media circus of employing a subpar quarterback.

Don't act like Tim Tebow was removed because of his abortion stance. What did conservative media say about this? Supportive. They didn't tell him to shut his mouth and neither did you guys.

He was removed because of feverish SEC fans that wanted to believe he was good. He should have never been drafted in the 1st round. He is out of the league because he can't play QB.

What did liberal media say about it? Not supportive. What did conservative media say about Kaep? Not supportive. What did liberal media say about Kap? Supportive.

Are you trying to say that different media outlets have different slants and promote different things/views? What a revelation...

The bottom line (which is really all of this is about for both parties) is that if Kaep was a good QB he would be employed right now. Is he good enough to be a top 64 QB in the league? 3 years ago I would have said yes, but now I absolutely have no clue. Is a bench player worth the amount of questions the players and coaches would have to answer regularly on him and his stance worth it? Then what kind of contract is he willing to sign? Remember the Broncos had a deal in place to trade for him and he was told he would compete to be the starter, but he refused to restructure his contract to take less money.

There are plenty of players who have done far worse things than Kaep that are still employed. Why do Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt still have a job? Because they are still really good at football. Ray Rice never got another chance because he wasn't any more. Your talent will continue to give you opportunities no matter what. That should tell you all you need to know. I'm not naive enough to think that his exile came a little earlier because of the kneeling, but that isn't the only reason. Kaep wants to be a martyr for social justice and social equality; which is perfectly fine with me and should be fine with everyone because he isn't harming anybody. But he has made out pretty well being a victim in all of this so I frankly don't feel bad for him at all.

[Phaded]

Guys, I've been around here long enough to know that if we continue to discuss more of the political factors over the football factors - the thread is going to get shut down.

Don't say I didn't warn you. I would suggest trying to trend it back more to football conversation.

[Lumps]

The bottom line (which is really all of this is about for both parties) is that if Kaep was a good QB he would be employed right now. Is he good enough to be a top 64 QB in the league? 3 years ago I would have said yes, but now I absolutely have no clue. Is a bench player worth the amount of questions the players and coaches would have to answer regularly on him and his stance worth it? Then what kind of contract is he willing to sign? Remember the Broncos had a deal in place to trade for him and he was told he would compete to be the starter, but he refused to restructure his contract to take less money.

There are plenty of players who have done far worse things than Kaep that are still employed. Why do Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt still have a job? Because they are still really good at football. Ray Rice never got another chance because he wasn't any more. Your talent will continue to give you opportunities no matter what. That should tell you all you need to know. I'm not naive enough to think that his exile came a little earlier because of the kneeling, but that isn't the only reason. Kaep wants to be a martyr for social justice and social equality; which is perfectly fine with me and should be fine with everyone because he isn't harming anybody. But he has made out pretty well being a victim in all of this so I frankly don't feel bad for him at all.

I think the bolded is, case in point, NOT the bottom line.

And why is that? Have you seen who has started at QB this year?

Brandon Allen
Jeff Driskell
Chase Daniel
Matt friggen Moore
Mason Rudolph (yeah I'm throwing him in this)
Kyle Allen
Case Keenum
Fitzpatrick
Matt Schaub
Ryan Finley
Devlin Hodges
Josh Rosen ??

[Lumps]

Guys, I've been around here long enough to know that if we continue to discuss more of the political factors over the football factors - the thread is going to get shut down.

Don't say I didn't warn you. I would suggest trying to trend it back more to football conversation.

Same. However, this topic cannot be discussed without politics and that is exactly the point.

[Phaded]

And why is that? Have you seen who has started at QB this year?

Brandon Allen
Jeff Driskell
Chase Daniel
Matt friggen Moore
Mason Rudolph (yeah I'm throwing him in this)
Kyle Allen
Case Keenum
Fitzpatrick
Matt Schaub
Ryan Finley
Devlin Hodges
Josh Rosen ??

The problem with the majority of this list is that many of these guys are young, cheap, developmental quarterbacks that got thrust in because a starter or two got hurt.

Kaepernick would fall into the "veteran leader backup" role - and that's a role that quite frankly, I don't think he would be good at. The other older guys on this are arguably better than Kaepernick was in 2016, let alone right now.

The reason you bring in older quarterbacks as a backup is typically as a leadership and mentoring role.

[jenkins.math]

The bottom line (which is really all of this is about for both parties) is that if Kaep was a good QB he would be employed right now. Is he good enough to be a top 64 QB in the league? 3 years ago I would have said yes, but now I absolutely have no clue. Is a bench player worth the amount of questions the players and coaches would have to answer regularly on him and his stance worth it? Then what kind of contract is he willing to sign? Remember the Broncos had a deal in place to trade for him and he was told he would compete to be the starter, but he refused to restructure his contract to take less money.

There are plenty of players who have done far worse things than Kaep that are still employed. Why do Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt still have a job? Because they are still really good at football. Ray Rice never got another chance because he wasn't any more. Your talent will continue to give you opportunities no matter what. That should tell you all you need to know. I'm not naive enough to think that his exile came a little earlier because of the kneeling, but that isn't the only reason. Kaep wants to be a martyr for social justice and social equality; which is perfectly fine with me and should be fine with everyone because he isn't harming anybody. But he has made out pretty well being a victim in all of this so I frankly don't feel bad for him at all.

I think the bolded is, case in point, NOT the bottom line.

And why is that? Have you seen who has started at QB this year?

Brandon Allen
Jeff Driskell
Chase Daniel
Matt friggen Moore
Mason Rudolph (yeah I'm throwing him in this)
Kyle Allen
Case Keenum
Fitzpatrick
Matt Schaub
Ryan Finley
Devlin Hodges
Josh Rosen ??

So because you think these players are worse than Kaep, you think he should be employed over one of these players on this list? Is that what you are implying here? Or are you trying to say these dudes have jobs because they are white? Or both? Well you would also have to assume Kaep would accept a contract similar or equal to those guys. Half of that list is on their first contract, so you can take those guys out as they are developing. Or their franchises think they are worth trying to develop to see what they have. Kaep is 32, so how much developing does a player at that age have left?

So after you take away the guys still on rookie deals, you're left with who? Matt Moore, Keenum, Schaub, and Fitzpatrick right? Moore has a 1 million dollar deal, Schaub at 1.8, Keenum is making 3.5, and Fitz is making 5.5.

You can't just look at the player and ignore the contract/age of the players. The only guys on that list that are comparable are the 4 I just gave you and you have zero idea what Kaep is willing to play for. He has never come out and said "I want to prove myself, so I'll play for the vet minimum on a 1 year deal" or anything to that affect. If he wanted to play so bad, why did he turn down the opportunity to potentially start in Denver? He refused to restructure his deal so the trade never happened. Now you factor in relationships like Matt Moore being around Andy Reid and that system for years, so him at 1 million was just fine. Schaub had some connections in Atlanta too I believe. The Redskins and Dolphins are a mess so I don't think you could draw any sort of conclusion from those 2 franchises.

If you think Kaep is better than those guys flat out, that is fine. You may be right. But you're ignoring contracts, Kaep turning down a deal, and a host of other things because they don't fit your narrative.

[Lumps]

So because you think these players are worse than Kaep, you think he should be employed over one of these players on this list? Is that what you are implying here? Or are you trying to say these dudes have jobs because they are white? Or both? Well you would also have to assume Kaep would accept a contract similar or equal to those guys. Half of that list is on their first contract, so you can take those guys out as they are developing. Or their franchises think they are worth trying to develop to see what they have. Kaep is 32, so how much developing does a player at that age have left?

So after you take away the guys still on rookie deals, you're left with who? Matt Moore, Keenum, Schaub, and Fitzpatrick right? Moore has a 1 million dollar deal, Schaub at 1.8, Keenum is making 3.5, and Fitz is making 5.5.

You can't just look at the player and ignore the contract/age of the players. The only guys on that list that are comparable are the 4 I just gave you and you have zero idea what Kaep is willing to play for. He has never come out and said "I want to prove myself, so I'll play for the vet minimum on a 1 year deal" or anything to that affect. If he wanted to play so bad, why did he turn down the opportunity to potentially start in Denver? He refused to restructure his deal so the trade never happened. Now you factor in relationships like Matt Moore being around Andy Reid and that system for years, so him at 1 million was just fine. Schaub had some connections in Atlanta too I believe. The Redskins and Dolphins are a mess so I don't think you could draw any sort of conclusion from those 2 franchises.

If you think Kaep is better than those guys flat out, that is fine. You may be right. But you're ignoring contracts, Kaep turning down a deal, and a host of other things because they don't fit your narrative.

At THIS point it's hard to say who is or is not better than. We saw him throw against air, which is no different than a pro day, and even undrafted QBs can toss 80%. The point is that we are even discussing this without knowing, because we are now 3 years out. He is better than several on that list for sure. Hell, he's probably better than Trubisky.

There sure does appear to be a LOT of narratives and reasons for why he is not employed, EXCEPT for the blatantly obvious.

Denver? https://www.sbnation.com/2018/8/16/1770 ... er-broncos

There’s a reason Elway was one of the executives deposed in Kaepernick’s collusion case. The Broncos were a logical landing spot for the quarterback and a team that was previously interested in trading away resources to get him.

Kaepernick’s protests are the most logical explanation for what looks like a 180 from the Broncos. So while Elway’s assertion that Kaepernick “had his chance” to be with the Broncos is true, it doesn’t explain why Denver isn’t interested now.

Seattle? https://www-1.thenewstribune.com/sports ... 62614.html

[Cameron Giles]

I'm not oversimplifying anything. His message is about protesting racial inequality. Do you think the idea of a country treating everyone the same regardless of race is controversial? Because that's literally what this country is supposed to represent.

There is no rule that states that players can't use their platform to peacefully promote a positive message. Kaepernick never made it a spectacle. He was doing it for multiple games until someone noticed. The people who made it a spectacle are those who vehemently disagree with the message, which says a lot about who they are.

Let's not forget that there are other players in the league who express their views and aren't punished for it.

I agree that the NFL is a privilege, not a right, but Kaepernick did nothing wrong to lose that privilege. He didn't break any rules, he didn't do anything criminal, and he isn't promoting something that is vile or inhuman. It is literally a message about treating everyone the same regardless of your race.

This whole thing has been hijacked by people who don't agree with it and who have never experienced any type of racial profiling a day in their lives.

So let me start by saying I have no problem with the message that Kaep was attempting to pass along.

That said, I'm Canadian and I have limited exposure to American culture. However from what I have experienced and seen - Americans can be exceedingly patriotic (not that there is anything wrong with it) and people took exception to the fact that he was doing this during the national anthem - that was the root of the problem, not that he was protesting racial inequality. While he was protesting, there were a lot spinning it as anti-patriotism which I can see why they would say that.

I'm not a big politics guy, to be quite frank - I hate politics. However, I'm one of those 8% that stopped watching NFL as often as I used to, I stopped watching NFL Network and a lot of shows that were "NFL talk". It had nothing to do with me disagreeing with his message, it had to do with politics being shoved down my throat, it's all the commentators were talking about, it's all network analysts were talking about - it was annoying. I watch the NFL for entertainment purposes - not for political reasons.

The NFL is also not doing anything criminal or breaking any rules by not having Kaepernick in the league.

Again, Kaepernick being on your team will be a massive distraction - the reaction to this whole workout debacle is further evidence of that. Whether you agree with why or not is irrelevant, whether you think the distraction is justified is irrelevant. It is a fact.

The people who took exception to it are BS'ing. If the national anthem is so sacred, then why are stadiums selling alcohol and concession while it's happening? Why doesn't the President know the words to it? Why does the NFL show commercials for ad revenue instead of actually airing the national anthem for each broadcast? Notice they only started airing it when they realized that people wanted to watch it to see which players were kneeling.

All of this stuff is selective patriotism, because certain people do not want African American athletes promoting messages of equality to millions of people. They believe that they're ungrateful and they should just shut up and play sports.

Kaepernick will only be a distraction because of those people, not because of who he is or the message he promotes. All he ever did was perform a peaceful protest.

Kaepernick is clearly good enough to be an NFL QB. I agree with you that it's simply about owners feeling he's not good enough to come with the news headlines, which is completely irrational given the players they have signed who come with worse baggage. Jerry Jones signed a player who beat a woman and threw her on a bed of guns, and he was thinking about giving him AN EXTENSION.

The NFL's moral high ground is utter BS. Just like all the teams who sign wifebeaters, eventually it will fade away and the focus will be on football.

[BucsFan5493]

I'm not oversimplifying anything. His message is about protesting racial inequality. Do you think the idea of a country treating everyone the same regardless of race is controversial? Because that's literally what this country is supposed to represent.

There is no rule that states that players can't use their platform to peacefully promote a positive message. Kaepernick never made it a spectacle. He was doing it for multiple games until someone noticed. The people who made it a spectacle are those who vehemently disagree with the message, which says a lot about who they are.

Let's not forget that there are other players in the league who express their views and aren't punished for it.

I agree that the NFL is a privilege, not a right, but Kaepernick did nothing wrong to lose that privilege. He didn't break any rules, he didn't do anything criminal, and he isn't promoting something that is vile or inhuman. It is literally a message about treating everyone the same regardless of your race.

This whole thing has been hijacked by people who don't agree with it and who have never experienced any type of racial profiling a day in their lives.

So let me start by saying I have no problem with the message that Kaep was attempting to pass along.

That said, I'm Canadian and I have limited exposure to American culture. However from what I have experienced and seen - Americans can be exceedingly patriotic (not that there is anything wrong with it) and people took exception to the fact that he was doing this during the national anthem - that was the root of the problem, not that he was protesting racial inequality. While he was protesting, there were a lot spinning it as anti-patriotism which I can see why they would say that.

I'm not a big politics guy, to be quite frank - I hate politics. However, I'm one of those 8% that stopped watching NFL as often as I used to, I stopped watching NFL Network and a lot of shows that were "NFL talk". It had nothing to do with me disagreeing with his message, it had to do with politics being shoved down my throat, it's all the commentators were talking about, it's all network analysts were talking about - it was annoying. I watch the NFL for entertainment purposes - not for political reasons.

The NFL is also not doing anything criminal or breaking any rules by not having Kaepernick in the league.

Again, Kaepernick being on your team will be a massive distraction - the reaction to this whole workout debacle is further evidence of that. Whether you agree with why or not is irrelevant, whether you think the distraction is justified is irrelevant. It is a fact.

The people who took exception to it are BS'ing. If the national anthem is so sacred, then why are stadiums selling alcohol and concession while it's happening? Why doesn't the President know the words to it? Why does the NFL show commercials for ad revenue instead of actually airing the national anthem for each broadcast? Notice they only started airing it when they realized that people wanted to watch it to see which players were kneeling.

All of this stuff is selective patriotism, because certain people do not want African American athletes promoting messages of equality to millions of people. They believe that they're ungrateful and they should just shut up and play sports.

Kaepernick will only be a distraction because of those people, not because of who he is or the message he promotes. All he ever did was perform a peaceful protest.

Kaepernick is clearly good enough to be an NFL QB. I agree with you that it's simply about owners feeling he's not good enough to come with the news headlines, which is completely irrational given the players they have signed who come with worse baggage. Jerry Jones signed a player who beat a woman and threw her on a bed of guns, and he was thinking about giving him AN EXTENSION.

The NFL's moral high ground is utter BS. Just like all the teams who sign wifebeaters, eventually it will fade away and the focus will be on football.

Couldn't have put it much better.

Also, saw someone questioning whether he'd be a top 64 QB now and that is beyond a laughable take. He'd be a starter on some teams and to be honest, teams like the Bears, Steelers and probably the Panthers are foolish for not considering him more. Their good D's will be going to waste because they want to stick with their current garbage QB options.

[notweswelker]

I support equality for all colors creeds and backgrounds.
But...... that's not what he is or what he stands for.

Colin is just an ignorant misguided hypocrite who only started protesting to appease his girlfriend.

People who believe in social justice, or any kind of justice for that matter, are not Fidel f*cking Castro supporters.
There is no reconciling that, unless you are quite literally brain damaged.
https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt- ... 33883.html

Why people still give this absolute fool even the briefest moment of their time is baffling to me.
Either they are willfully ignorant about the basic history of their own movement, or they simply only care about themselves.

Praising Kaepernick for his message is tantamount to praising Nestle for their investment in the African Economy.

With that, I am out.

Stay Woke

[Orenthal Shames]

May as well move this to the off-topic politics forum.

[dynastyninja]

May as well move this to the off-topic politics forum.

It's inevitable in any Kaep topic

[Ice]

Kaep needs to run for political office. Then he can stand on his soapbox and preach anytime he desires.

Of course in Congress he would have to wear a sports coat in the chamber instead of his array of political t shirts.

He is a social justice warrior, he is not a QB employed by any NFL team and none has to employ him for any reason.

Employment by a team is a privilege if a team decides he is worth it and fits within their team framework.

I certainly wouldn’t employ him if I owned a team as he is a distraction to millions and therefore the odds of the brand and the locker room could suffer so why bother.

The NFL is a vehicle many enjoy as entertainment and serves as a fun way to get away from work, politics, or the normal stress of everyday life in general.

Kaep made his own bed and has to sleep in it so to speak.

Does this apply to players talking about God? Praising god?
Did you say this about Tebow and his abortion commercial?
How about when players are asked about political stances?
Do you have an issue with them showing support of veterans?
Police?

1) The NFL doesn’t seem to mind
2) The NFL didn’t mind Tebow and the fan base didn’t either. He simply wasn’t very good.
3 Answering questions about Politics is about as rare as asking about them but would need to see the questions/answers and fan push back.
4 The NFL and the majority of fans actually support Veterans.

Personally, I have zero issue if a team decides to give Kaep a job.

If I owned a team I would not. He isn’t very good IMO and personally I wouldn’t Deal with him. My take is Kaep wants to use the NFL as a platform for issues outside of football.

Zero issue if you would give him a job as an owner.

[Shoreline Steamers]

And about the troops, Kaep took advice from a former Greent Beret and took a knee instead of sitting on the bench. So...

I saw an interview with that soldier, but can't recall where. It was pretty cool, and I found it ironic that Kaep's actions were described by some as disrespectful to the troops (not his intention), when in fact a service member he sought out for advice is the one who gave the suggestion in the first place.

But it seems exceedingly more difficult by the day for rational people to agree on much of anything anymore.

[Cult of Dionysus]

Let's not forget that Kaepernick began his "protest" after the 49ers decided to go with Blaine Gabbert as the starter.