Pats DST

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Slackalacker
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Re: Pats DST

Postby Slackalacker » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:40 am

Pats D is ridiculous, they’re putting up more than Kamara right now weekly.

I wouldn’t pay much since Ds can change drastically year to year but I am salty that my biggest competitor gets a free 20spot weekly from them right now.
8-4|DYNASTY TEAM 1 - 10 team 1ppr 30 man roster | 2017 League Champ
1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/1FLEX - 2 2020 1sts
QB: Brady - Carr
RB: Barkley - CMC - Mixon - Guice - Davis - Wilkins - Bonbon - JoWill - Bo - Ito(IR)
WR: Nuk - Adams - TY - DJ - Hollywood - Campbell - Pascal - JJAW - Miller - Keke - Gage
TE: Engram - Hock - Griffin - Stern

3-9|DYNASTY TEAM 2 - 10 Team 1ppr |2019 Orphan
1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/2FLEX - 2 2020 1sts
QB: Wentz - Brees - Dalton
RB: Cook - Singletary - Duke - Hill - Ito - Riddick - Smallwood - Walton - Wilkins
WR/TE: JuJu - Hill - Samuels - MVS - Kirk - PWill - Enunwa - Lee - Trent Taylor - DT - Sharpe - P Cooper
TE: Olsen - Lacosse - Jonnu

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Re: Pats DST

Postby Weknownothing86 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:41 am

thebeast wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:33 am
Why is anyone still playing in a dynasty league with DSTs?
Why is anyone not? Its supposed to be fun and being able to watch another side of the ball is fun.
If i have to explain my screen name to you than you dont understand Fantasy Football.

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Re: Pats DST

Postby thebeast » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:45 am

Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:41 am
thebeast wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:33 am
Why is anyone still playing in a dynasty league with DSTs?
Why is anyone not? Its supposed to be fun and being able to watch another side of the ball is fun.
because dynasty is about player development and talent evaluation, you don't develop whole defenses, you don't draft them as rookies, and they are random. I mean I get it if you are playing redraft with friends, but I take this forum to be people who do lots of research to find edges to win and dsts aren't aligned with that. That's why not. If you want to watch the other side of the ball add two IDP spots, a DL and a DB.
2017 Champion - DLF Hall of Fame League - 16 Team | 1 PPR | 1QB-2WR/2RB/1TE/2FL

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Re: Pats DST

Postby Slackalacker » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:49 am

thebeast wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:45 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:41 am
thebeast wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:33 am
Why is anyone still playing in a dynasty league with DSTs?
Why is anyone not? Its supposed to be fun and being able to watch another side of the ball is fun.
because dynasty is about player development and talent evaluation, you don't develop whole defenses, you don't draft them as rookies, and they are random. I mean I get it if you are playing redraft with friends, but I take this forum to be people who do lots of research to find edges to win and dsts aren't aligned with that. That's why not.
You can still find edges with D/STs. It’s on a different scale than IDP, but you still track which Ds draft solid rookies, acquire top Free Agent talent in the offseason, predict schedules based off of opponents offensive strengths, and of course find teams that have solid returners.

You can do all of this individually if you like through IDP and return points but I don’t think it’s inherently less dynasty to play with D/STs. They’re not any more random than most positions and players outside of your elite fantasy studs who can also vary widely in value (OBJ, Evans, even Nuk this year).
8-4|DYNASTY TEAM 1 - 10 team 1ppr 30 man roster | 2017 League Champ
1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/1FLEX - 2 2020 1sts
QB: Brady - Carr
RB: Barkley - CMC - Mixon - Guice - Davis - Wilkins - Bonbon - JoWill - Bo - Ito(IR)
WR: Nuk - Adams - TY - DJ - Hollywood - Campbell - Pascal - JJAW - Miller - Keke - Gage
TE: Engram - Hock - Griffin - Stern

3-9|DYNASTY TEAM 2 - 10 Team 1ppr |2019 Orphan
1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/2FLEX - 2 2020 1sts
QB: Wentz - Brees - Dalton
RB: Cook - Singletary - Duke - Hill - Ito - Riddick - Smallwood - Walton - Wilkins
WR/TE: JuJu - Hill - Samuels - MVS - Kirk - PWill - Enunwa - Lee - Trent Taylor - DT - Sharpe - P Cooper
TE: Olsen - Lacosse - Jonnu

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Re: Pats DST

Postby thebeast » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:55 am

Slackalacker wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:49 am
thebeast wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:45 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:41 am


Why is anyone not? Its supposed to be fun and being able to watch another side of the ball is fun.
because dynasty is about player development and talent evaluation, you don't develop whole defenses, you don't draft them as rookies, and they are random. I mean I get it if you are playing redraft with friends, but I take this forum to be people who do lots of research to find edges to win and dsts aren't aligned with that. That's why not.
You can still find edges with D/STs. It’s on a different scale than IDP, but you still track which Ds draft solid rookies, acquire top Free Agent talent in the offseason, predict schedules based off of opponents offensive strengths, and of course find teams that have solid returners.

You can do all of this individually if you like through IDP and return points but I don’t think it’s inherently less dynasty to play with D/STs. They’re not any more random than most positions and players outside of your elite fantasy studs who can also vary widely in value (OBJ, Evans, even Nuk this year).
So they are in fact much more random and you can look it up. In any case to each their own, my money league aren't cheap so I would never play in a league where the outcome was potentially left to a dst. There's also a reason why none of the DLF safeleagues and many other formats include dst and kickers, the only major site I know of that does is FFPC, which is more of a keeper league than dynasty with the shallow roster limits in the offseason.
2017 Champion - DLF Hall of Fame League - 16 Team | 1 PPR | 1QB-2WR/2RB/1TE/2FL

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Re: Pats DST

Postby Weknownothing86 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:59 am

thebeast wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:45 am
Weknownothing86 wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:41 am
thebeast wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:33 am
Why is anyone still playing in a dynasty league with DSTs?
Why is anyone not? Its supposed to be fun and being able to watch another side of the ball is fun.
because dynasty is about player development and talent evaluation, you don't develop whole defenses, you don't draft them as rookies, and they are random. I mean I get it if you are playing redraft with friends, but I take this forum to be people who do lots of research to find edges to win and dsts aren't aligned with that. That's why not. If you want to watch the other side of the ball add two IDP spots, a DL and a DB.
Not everyone on this forum takes it that seriously. I understand this forum is full of people who are in multiple leagues and i respect and appreciate the knowledge, its much more than i have, but quite frankly my one friend league doesnt want to go IDP because its just too much. DST is fun. And there are a ton of people on these boards who arent as experienced, who dont post and just lurk. We all play different styles.
If i have to explain my screen name to you than you dont understand Fantasy Football.

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Re: Pats DST

Postby Paul717 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:11 am

This is an interesting debate, whether "Team DST" even makes sense in a Dynasty League. Our 16 team league has run into a bit of a snag this year...DST became a hotter than usual commodity. Going into the draft, 31 of the 32 DSTs were kept. Usually there are more like 5-6 available, and occasionally 1-2 teams would have only 1 after the draft. This year there were a few teams with only 1, and one team with NO DST! In fact, he didn't even bother to trade for one until YESTERDAY. He's obviously 0-10 (we play 2 games, most weeks), and it brings into question his desire to win this year. We will likely as a league vote on some potential rule changes this summer. Great thread here.
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Deshaun Watson, Tyrod Taylor
RB: Aaron Jones, Peyton Barber, DeAndre Washington, Jalen Richard, Trayveon Williams, Darrel Williams, Dare Ogunbowale, J.D. McKissic
WR: Calvin Ridley, Jamison Crowder, Emmanuel Sanders, A.J. Brown, James Washington, Zach Pascal, DaeSean Hamilton, Paul Richardson, Jakobi Meyers, Kendrick Bourne, Geronimo Allison, Antonio Brown :(
TE: T.J. Hockenson
K: Don't have one during the "offseason", my team missed playoffs in 2019 :(
Team DST: Lions

Picks:
2020: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd (Shrimp), 3rd (Harlem Hailmakers), 4th (Cookie Monsters), 5th (Smooth Doctors), 5th (Shrimp), 8th

Disclaimer: My one and only Championship in this league was way back in 2011. Therefore, take my replies with the appropriate grain of salt. :lol:

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Re: Pats DST

Postby Slackalacker » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:16 am

I’d never subscribe to the idea that D/STs inherently go against the concept of dynasty. You’re usually taking them late in startups or even streaming them in place of end of roster stashes. They’re more like veterans. year to year you wouldn’t pay a lot because they may not be good the following year, but are valuable when they are tearing it up. Most positions don’t have more than a handful of players who perform at top levels every year. Maybe 5-7QBs, 5-7RBs, 10WRs, and a few TEs. Defenses are a lot like RBs. Look at people like Lacy, Morris, to a sense DMo. People put decent capital into them only to not have their careers pan out. They’re a lot like defenses who flash for a few years and fade out because of parity. But defenses can come back after some retooling.

I believe D/STs are not anti-dynasty in any way and I don’t mind them in my money leagues at all, but to each their own.
8-4|DYNASTY TEAM 1 - 10 team 1ppr 30 man roster | 2017 League Champ
1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/1FLEX - 2 2020 1sts
QB: Brady - Carr
RB: Barkley - CMC - Mixon - Guice - Davis - Wilkins - Bonbon - JoWill - Bo - Ito(IR)
WR: Nuk - Adams - TY - DJ - Hollywood - Campbell - Pascal - JJAW - Miller - Keke - Gage
TE: Engram - Hock - Griffin - Stern

3-9|DYNASTY TEAM 2 - 10 Team 1ppr |2019 Orphan
1QB/2RB/2WR/1TE/2FLEX - 2 2020 1sts
QB: Wentz - Brees - Dalton
RB: Cook - Singletary - Duke - Hill - Ito - Riddick - Smallwood - Walton - Wilkins
WR/TE: JuJu - Hill - Samuels - MVS - Kirk - PWill - Enunwa - Lee - Trent Taylor - DT - Sharpe - P Cooper
TE: Olsen - Lacosse - Jonnu

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Re: Pats DST

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:28 am

I play in 1 league with D/ST. For the most part, I don't want to do D/ST, but it does add a bit of fun, so I joined 1 league that had all the other things I liked. Superflex/TE premium. Fantasy Football is supposed to be fun. People can get way too preachy about what Dynasty is supposed to be. If you don't like certain formats, don't play them. TBH, I'd rather have D'ST than IDP. That's me, I don't begrudge those that do IDP, or D/ST. It's for fun. If the format appeals to you, play it, if it doesn't, don't. I think it's a tad pompous to start insinuating a certain format should be beneath people , and I may have been guilty of this in the past. I think you should play what you enjoy, as this hobby is supposed to be for enjoyment.

We talk about "owning" people, and "shares" of players. It's the a game made up around another game. It needs to be put in perspective sometimes. I think we all have a borderline obsession with it, but it needs to be kept in the context of enjoyment, or what's the point?
DLF Early Birds Special/ Year 1 (16 Team SuperFlex 25 man roster Start 10)

Record: 28-5 Division Champ/League High Scorer

Wentz, Stafford. Driskel
Chubb, Cook, Carson, Breida, Ekeler, Penny, James White, Sproles
Evans, Sutton, Woods, Agholor, Sanu, Higgins, D Robinson, T Taylor
Kittle, Olsen, McDonald, Ian Thomas, Clay

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Re: Pats DST

Postby M-Dub » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:07 am

My personal issue with both D/ST and IDP is that there’s really no way to actually play defense in fantasy football, i.e. you can’t prevent the other team from scoring. D/STs and IDPs are simply another method of accumulating points.

I’ve always thought it would be kinda cool to devise a formula for D/ST scoring that would subtract a percentage of your opponent’s points, as opposed to just adding raw points to your own total. Instead of sacks, INTs, points allowed, etc. counting as raw points, they would contribute to an overall percentage. That way, the more your opponent scored, the more would be subtracted. That would actually make D/STs feel more important and impactful. I’m sure it’d be way too convoluted to actually implement, but a guy can dream, right?

Barring something like that, I’d rather just not play with them at all, for all the reasons given above.
Darcia Lee Fan Club
12-team PPR dynasty, 17-player roster, 4-player taxi
8 starters: 1 QB, 1-4 RB/WR/TE

QB: Wilson
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Lindsay, Guice, J. Hill, Scarbrough, Miller (IR)
WR: Godwin, Golladay, Keenan, Woods, Sammy, Tre’Quan
TE: Ertz, Rudolph
Taxi: Irv Smith, Dexter, Gaskin

Put The Coke On My Dak
Same settings as above except 18-player rosters

QB: Dak, Baker
RB: CMC, DJ, Sanders, Barber, Edwards, Gallman
WR: Julio, ARob, Kirk, Lockett, Campbell, Tate
TE: Kelce, Goedert, Howard, Jonnu
Taxi: Gaskin, Isabella

The Guiceman Cometh
20-player rosters, $420 cap, 60 contract years, same starting requirements

QB: Foles $1/1, Minshew $1/1
RB: Gurley $71/2, Gordon $62/2, Dam. Williams $36/1, Guice $24/4, Henderson $14/3, Hill $4/5, Jon Williams $1/1, Gaskin $1/1
WR: Godwin $50/4, Hilton $43/2, Hollywood $9/3, Hamilton $2/5, Conley $1/1, Pascal $1/1, Gage $1/1
TE: Njoku $28/1, Howard $20/4, Griffin $1/1

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Re: Pats DST

Postby dynastyninja » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:12 am

M-Dub wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:07 am
I’ve always thought it would be kinda cool to devise a formula for D/ST scoring that would subtract a percentage of your opponent’s points, as opposed to just adding raw points to your own total. Instead of sacks, INTs, points allowed, etc. counting as raw points, they would contribute to an overall percentage. That way, the more your opponent scored, the more would be subtracted. That would actually make D/STs feel more important and impactful. I’m sure it’d be way too convoluted to actually implement, but a guy can dream, right?
I love that idea

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Re: Pats DST

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:28 am

This is why valuing DSTs long-term in dynasty is dumb. Each year it's a different team. Remember when the Jaguars defense was playing like this two years ago?

It'll be interesting to see what happens in a few weeks:

Browns
Ravens
Eagles
Cowboys
Texans
Chiefs

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Re: Pats DST

Postby BigJoeWall72 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:41 am

thebeast wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:33 am
Why is anyone still playing in a dynasty league with DSTs?
I am surprised this comment isn't further up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at those people who play dynasty with DSTs... I just genuinely didn't think anyone did. It seems so strange to me for a few of the mentioned reasons (no developing of talent, year-to-year volatility, etc). Plus there are so many moving parts (different players, positions, and schemes) within just that one "position" on your dynasty roster. DSTs are great for redraft, but I wouldn't like to play in a dynasty league with DSTs.
1: 12-team PPR, all TD=6 pts, tackle heavy, start 22 (11-O, 11-D, 3 Flex each)
Stafford, Wentz, Minshew, Trubisky
CMC, M.Ingram, Dam.Williams, McKissic, Ito
Hopkins, OBJ, T.Hill, Landry, Cobb, E.Sanders, Edelman, C.Kirk, P.Williams [IR], Isabella [TS]
Kelce, Hollister, Ebron, Oliver
J.Bosa, Larry.O, D.Payne, Taco, R.Quinn
Hicks, Hitchens, Littleton, T.Edmunds, Warner, Reddick, Biegel, Kwiatkoski
Collins, J.Adams, K.Neal [IR], S.Williams, M.Hyde
2011, 2013, 2014 Champ

2: 14-team balanced scoring (TE super-premium), start 18 (9-O, 9-D, 2 Flex each)
Mahomes, Rodgers
M.Gordon, Dam.Williams, C.Carson, Lindsay, McKissic
Keenan, Landry, Golladay, Edelman, T.Boyd, Demaryius, Pettis, D.Johnson [TS]
Kelce, Olsen, D.Waller, Oliver, Warring [IR]
Buckner, Cox, D.Lawrence, T.Flowers, D.Hand
Leonard, Wagner, B.Martinez, Kwon, Roquan, Trevathan, B.Copeland, Kwiatkoski
J.Adams, J.Johnson [IR], R.Harrison, Teamer, T.Wilson
2015, 2016, 2018 Champ

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Re: Pats DST

Postby jenkins.math » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:57 am

Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:28 am
This is why valuing DSTs long-term in dynasty is dumb. Each year it's a different team. Remember when the Jaguars defense was playing like this two years ago?

It'll be interesting to see what happens in a few weeks:

Browns
Ravens
Eagles
Cowboys
Texans
Chiefs
Similar to Lamar Jackson looking unstoppable after his first 2 games (Miami and Arizona) he has come back down to earth now that he is facing some teams that offer any sort of resistance. I am taking the same wait and see approach with the Pats defense. The offenses they have faced so far have been laughable.
14 team dynasty, 25 man roster, keep 14, .5 PPR
QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, D/ST, K, DL, LB, DE
QB: Ryan, Mayfield
RB: Barkley, Kerryon Johnson, Gus Edwards, Pollard, Brian Hill
WR: OBJ, Mike Evans, Juju, Cooks, Corey Davis, Dede Westbrook, Fitz
TE: Njoku, Jonnu
K: Slye
D/ST: Titans, Eagles
DL: Heyward
LB: Littleton
DB: Bell

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Re: Pats DST

Postby notweswelker » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:59 am

hockeyBjj wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:19 am
Team 1 I'm being helped by pats D. Won weekly high score payout twice so far thanks in part to them

I've turned down two offers of a replacement D and a 2nd from other contenders for them. Honestly, I want to repeat as champ. In my position I don't know if I'd sell for a late 1st. Unfortunately they play the Dolphins week 17 when there's no fantasy, but they play Bills week 16 and Bengals week 15.

Watch out for Chiefs week 14 tho if you're truly relying on them
In the league I had them I just sold them for a 2nd for this exact reason. I'm 4-1 and expect to make a run. Realistically I'm not starting them week 14 and a 2nd was too much value to pass up. Just like others have pointed out, defenses will vary every year, I'll take the value for now.
Picked up the Jets D which has the Bengals Week 13, the Dolphins Week 14 and also have the Packers who play the Bears week 15 if I make it. I feel pretty good cashing in, I don't expect their fantasy points to continue at this pace.


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