Let's talk... JuJu Smith-Schuster

[Pullo Vision]

here's your list of WR2s that were successful and busted when given a shot at being the WR1?

I don't have a list, but first name that comes to mind is Alvin Harper.

I like the troll attempt, but Alvin Harper never had a season as a WR2 like Juju did last year. Nor did he ever go on to become the WR1 on that same team.

No troll attempt.
1- #2 WR on his team behind Irvin. Successful in that role.
2- Promoted to #1 WR. Yes on another team. Flop in that role.

Other WR flops in free agency- https://bleacherreport.com/articles/107 ... fl-history. Jerry Porter? I agree with Phaded- hard to find historical precedence for juju. Maybe Marvin Jones or Sammy Watkins-(relative) flop as #1 WRs, succeed as 1a/1b types?

[Goddard]

I don't have a list, but first name that comes to mind is Alvin Harper.

I like the troll attempt, but Alvin Harper never had a season as a WR2 like Juju did last year. Nor did he ever go on to become the WR1 on that same team.

No troll attempt.
1- #2 WR on his team behind Irvin. Successful in that role.
2- Promoted to #1 WR. Yes on another team. Flop in that role.

Other WR flops in free agency- https://bleacherreport.com/articles/107 ... fl-history. Jerry Porter? I agree with Phaded- hard to find historical precedence for juju. Maybe Marvin Jones or Sammy Watkins-(relative) flop as #1 WRs, succeed as 1a/1b types?

His best year in Dallas was 33 catches, 821 yards, and 8 TDs. Not bad, but also not a whole lot before that. That same year, Irvin had 79/1,241/6. Not really all that close compared to what Juju and AB put up last year...meaning, he wasn't the WR2 on a team putting up overall WR1 numbers. Also, he was 27 by the time he went to a new team and got a chance to be the #1 and had Dilfer as his QB. Not the same as Juju getting an opportunity at age 22 on the same team.

Agree that Juju's situation is different than just about anyone that's played in the league and hard to compare. Which is why we shouldn't assume that just because AB is gone he won't be able to produce. We don't know that based on any other information. That's just a guess/opinion by those of you thinking Juju isn't as good as his #s were last year.

[Phaded]

No WR2 has ever had a WR2 season like JuJu because no WR2 has received close to the targets JuJu received.

Some WR2s that come to mind just off the top of my head as elite 2s but struggled/were not elite 1s include Michael Crabtree, Santonio Holmes, Emmanuel Sanders.

Again, much of this depends on your definition of elite but those guys had better production with a WR ahead of them.

[Pullo Vision]

His best year in Dallas was 33 catches, 821 yards, and 8 TDs. Not bad, but also not a whole lot before that. That same year, Irvin had 79/1,241/6. Not really all that close compared to what Juju and AB put up last year...meaning, he wasn't the WR2 on a team putting up overall WR1 numbers. Also, he was 27 by the time he went to a new team and got a chance to be the #1 and had Dilfer as his QB. Not the same as Juju getting an opportunity at age 22 on the same team.

Agree that Juju's situation is different than just about anyone that's played in the league and hard to compare. Which is why we shouldn't assume that just because AB is gone he won't be able to produce. We don't know that based on any other information. That's just a guess/opinion by those of you thinking Juju isn't as good as his #s were last year.

Tough to find a WR that matches juju since he came to the NFL. My parameters-
1- #2 WR on NFL team
2- productive at that
3- Promoted to #1 WR on NFL team (same or new)
4- failed as NFL team's WR1

I had to go back 25 years to find something resembling a match. Seems your parameters are even more strict-
1- #2 WR on NFL team at a young age
2- productive at that with volume
3- Promoted to #1 WR on that NFL team
4- failed as that team's WR1

The age and volume requirements would make it difficult to find a match.

[AussieMate]

I still say we all need to hold off making any calls so far, its only week 4 and Mason is still finding his feet. Personally I'm not confident Mason is even backup worthy so far, but once again he wasn't expected to start so I'll hold off judging him for now as well.

I too never thought Juju was going to keep his pace without AB but I'll at least give him a season before I pat myself on the back about that.

[thebeast]

I still say we all need to hold off making any calls so far, its only week 4 and Mason is still finding his feet. Personally I'm not confident Mason is even backup worthy so far, but once again he wasn't expected to start so I'll hold off judging him for now as well.

I too never thought Juju was going to keep his pace without AB but I'll at least give him a season before I pat myself on the back about that.

Yeah, it that doesn’t address the question should he be benched and the larger question that that leads to, should you be concerned as an owner. Taking a wait and see approach is a losing strategy in dynasty, if you think this is the new Juju then you sell for as much as you can get, if you think he will rebound then you hold and buy all the shares you can get at a discount. That’s what we’re debating.

[Orenthal Shames]

Adams was in the league for four years before he even put up his first 1000 yard season, I'm not sure he was ever even considered an elite WR2.

Michael Thomas took over and out-targeted Cooks from the get-go.

The Falcons did not trade the farm to move up and grab Julio @ #4 to be a WR2 on their team.

It sounds like we may have different definitions of WR2 versus succession.

All of these other guys exploded when given the chance to be the #1. JuJu has not.

JuJu is basically the equivalent of Jarvis Landry from a production/talent standpoint.
The point is - all teams have a WR who is going to be fed targets, the difference is whether you turn that production into elite production or if your production is primarily volume based. Being fed targets does not automatically mean you're elite, it's the same default logic that causes people to chase the Terrelle Pryors of the world.

Targets = production, no matter who you are. The point is, a guy like JuJu is not the world beating talent that is going to hold off someone from usurping him.

Davante Adams during his 3rd year break out: 997 yards and 12TDs in 15 games, Jordy Nelson- 1247 yards 14TDs

If he wasn't thought of as an elite WR2 at that point, he should've been.

You asked for a list of elite WR2s that became elite #1s.. and I gave you some names.

The fact that Julio was thought of as a better prospect does not change the fact that he fits the requirement you were asking for.

Hopkins year 2: 127 targets, 1210 yards, 6TDs. Andre Johnson that year: 146 targets, 936 yards, 3TDs.

Sure he outproduced Johnson that year, but he pretty much done at that point and was out of the league 2 years later.

Juju's stats last year: 166 targets, 1426 yards, 7TDs Antonio Brown: 168 targets, 1297 yards, 15TDs
Excluding the TDs, Juju was both the more efficient and more prolific receiver in his 2nd year... and this is while AB is still a top 10 WR talent (despite his craziness about to black ball him from the league).

I agree that targets are a big part of production... but the ability to garner targets in the face of fierce target competition is itself a testament to talent. The big difference between Jarvis Landry and Juju (and there are many) is that Jarvis was never efficient in MIA. He vacuumed up the targets and was productive off of volume alone. Juju has shown efficiency in the face of volume.. and sure AB had something to do with that, but as I've hopefully shown at this point his career arch is much closer to a DeAndre Hopkins than it is a Jarvis Landry.

It's mind boggling both AB and JuJu had 160+ targets last year. Pittsburgh squandered years of elite offensive production.

[ArrylT]

I still say we all need to hold off making any calls so far, its only week 4 and Mason is still finding his feet. Personally I'm not confident Mason is even backup worthy so far, but once again he wasn't expected to start so I'll hold off judging him for now as well.

I too never thought Juju was going to keep his pace without AB but I'll at least give him a season before I pat myself on the back about that.

Yeah, it that doesn’t address the question should he be benched and the larger question that that leads to, should you be concerned as an owner. Taking a wait and see approach is a losing strategy in dynasty, if you think this is the new Juju then you sell for as much as you can get, if you think he will rebound then you hold and buy all the shares you can get at a discount. That’s what we’re debating.

Actually I have to disagree as a wait & see approach can be very effective. We've seen many players have yo-yo like value changes over just the course of 2 years. Whether from the extremes like a Josh Gordon or Tyreek Hill, or a more subtle Dalvin Cook or Leornard Fournette - the point is that many of these players experience enough ups & downs that you do not need to react immediately, apart from benching when you feel appropriate. But thats not really any different than playing matchups.

Obviously for some, like short term fliers, yes you need to make a decision swiftly - but once a player has established themselves in the NFL - odds are by waiting & seeing, there will be a secondary buy market or sell market. There will be a secondary or even tertiary production window.

Wait & see can perhaps be a losing strategy in re-draft or short term - but when you play a longer game wait & see can reap plenty of rewards. But even in the short term owners who kept plugging their player in the lineup can get rewarded.

It really depends on what your goal & needs are as a dynasty owner. If you're more of a stock market type owner, then by all means live & die by the rise & falls of the value market - but if you're more of a bonds/mutal funds owner, taking a wait & see approach can work quite well.

[thebeast]

I still say we all need to hold off making any calls so far, its only week 4 and Mason is still finding his feet. Personally I'm not confident Mason is even backup worthy so far, but once again he wasn't expected to start so I'll hold off judging him for now as well.

I too never thought Juju was going to keep his pace without AB but I'll at least give him a season before I pat myself on the back about that.

Yeah, it that doesn’t address the question should he be benched and the larger question that that leads to, should you be concerned as an owner. Taking a wait and see approach is a losing strategy in dynasty, if you think this is the new Juju then you sell for as much as you can get, if you think he will rebound then you hold and buy all the shares you can get at a discount. That’s what we’re debating.

Actually I have to disagree as a wait & see approach can be very effective. We've seen many players have yo-yo like value changes over just the course of 2 years. Whether from the extremes like a Josh Gordon or Tyreek Hill, or a more subtle Dalvin Cook or Leornard Fournette - the point is that many of these players experience enough ups & downs that you do not need to react immediately, apart from benching when you feel appropriate. But thats not really any different than playing matchups.

Obviously for some, like short term fliers, yes you need to make a decision swiftly - but once a player has established themselves in the NFL - odds are by waiting & seeing, there will be a secondary buy market or sell market. There will be a secondary or even tertiary production window.

Wait & see can perhaps be a losing strategy in re-draft or short term - but when you play a longer game wait & see can reap plenty of rewards. But even in the short term owners who kept plugging their player in the lineup can get rewarded.

It really depends on what your goal & needs are as a dynasty owner. If you're more of a stock market type owner, then by all means live & die by the rise & falls of the value market - but if you're more of a bonds/mutal funds owner, taking a wait & see approach can work quite well.

Either way you are buying and selling with the intent to increase the overall value of your team over time, this is everyone's goal. Juju is talented no doubt, but how talented? Personally, I don't believe he is a top 12 asset so I would be selling if I owned him and I could still get 1st round startup value return for him. But if you think he is a top 12 asset and you can get him for less then you should do that as this moment in time offers you a rare buy low opportunity to acquire an asset you believe is elite. If you own him and believe in him then you hold, but I still think that is a different decision than wait and see.

[jetsfan5757]

I believe in the talent. Sure, it helps to have AB opposite you, and Big Ben throwing it, but you still have to be a damn good talent to put up the #s JuJu did. People also forget how young he was when he did it and still is.

That said, the offense looks like a dumpster fire right now and JuJu is gutting his way through an injury. I definitely see the case for sitting him if you can. I'm not sure I like DJ Moore or Chark over him, but I'd definitely play Nuk, Adams and Evans over him when healthy.

[Goddard]

Its time for me. JuJu is on my bench in at least one of my leagues and will likely stay there. At this rate I doubt he makes it to 80 catches this year. Just sad

I hope you benched Mike Evans instead of Juju.

[grandmabetty]

Its time for me. JuJu is on my bench in at least one of my leagues and will likely stay there. At this rate I doubt he makes it to 80 catches this year. Just sad

I hope you benched Mike Evans instead of Juju.

Right! I did not as you may have guessed. My team is maddening so far this year. Kelce and Robert Woods are not as dominant. Juju and Evans are hit or miss. Hill has been injured. Gordon a holdout. Big Ben and Cam are gone..... All a guy can hope for is the studs eventually turn into consistent studs

[Goddard]

Its time for me. JuJu is on my bench in at least one of my leagues and will likely stay there. At this rate I doubt he makes it to 80 catches this year. Just sad

I hope you benched Mike Evans instead of Juju.

Right! I did not as you may have guessed. My team is maddening so far this year. Kelce and Robert Woods are not as dominant. Juju and Evans are hit or miss. Hill has been injured. Gordon a holdout. Big Ben and Cam are gone..... All a guy can hope for is the studs eventually turn into consistent studs

Sometimes you just chalk up a season to bad luck and hope things even out the next year.

[jetsfan5757]

Its time for me. JuJu is on my bench in at least one of my leagues and will likely stay there. At this rate I doubt he makes it to 80 catches this year. Just sad

I hope you benched Mike Evans instead of Juju.

Right! I did not as you may have guessed. My team is maddening so far this year. Kelce and Robert Woods are not as dominant. Juju and Evans are hit or miss. Hill has been injured. Gordon a holdout. Big Ben and Cam are gone..... All a guy can hope for is the studs eventually turn into consistent studs

I feel you man. Davante Adams, Nuk, JuJu, Evans have all been driving me nuts to some extent!

Call me crazy, but I'm playing Chark over JuJu until I see more from. Pitt offense. It'll probably blow up in my face this very week, but I'm taking my chances...

[ArrylT]

I hope you benched Mike Evans instead of Juju.

Right! I did not as you may have guessed. My team is maddening so far this year. Kelce and Robert Woods are not as dominant. Juju and Evans are hit or miss. Hill has been injured. Gordon a holdout. Big Ben and Cam are gone..... All a guy can hope for is the studs eventually turn into consistent studs

Sometimes you just chalk up a season to bad luck and hope things even out the next year.

This is very solid advice.