Calling my shot: Taysom Hill takeover

[ArrylT]

Well that was on the road against a top notch D. If there are people who wanted to discount Lamar Jacksons first game because it was against the Dolphins - maybe some owners need to remember that the Saints were on the road against the Rams. I think Bridgewater should not be judged on his 2nd actual NFL game (pre-season excluded) since 2015 without that context added.

[notweswelker]

I don't even think I'd call Bridgewater a game manager. Game managers typically throw 20-30 times per game and usually have a high completion percentage with average yards. Teddy threw the ball 30 times yesterday in the 2nd half and only completed 17 of them for 165 yards. I don't know why people are afraid to say he's a bad QB. I'm happy for him and his story was great coming back from that injury, but we don't have to pretend like he's better than he is. I think Sean Payton is having a difficult time accepting that reality as well, but if they want a chance to win a few games while Brees is out, they need to start Hill sooner rather than later.

I call him a game manager because he can do enough for a good team to win. Obviously with this post I am the conductor of Hill>Bridgewater, but I think he has still earned that title. He's decent. The problem is decent isn't good enough for teams with playoff aspirations. It might get the team there like Alex Smith (a GOOD game manager), but it won't be enough 95% of the time to get it done. Flacco did it though, and so did Foles. Both QBs I put in the same talent tier as Bridgewater, though higher in that tier.

[notweswelker]

Well that was on the road against a top notch D. If there are people who wanted to discount Lamar Jacksons first game because it was against the Dolphins - maybe some owners need to remember that the Saints were on the road against the Rams. I think Bridgewater should not be judged on his 2nd actual NFL game (pre-season excluded) since 2015 without that context added.

I absolutely discount LJ's first game against the Dolphins. Also discounting his performance in a last moment victory vs. an awful Cardinals team with a rookie HC and rookie qb.

[Sriracha]

I don't even think I'd call Bridgewater a game manager. Game managers typically throw 20-30 times per game and usually have a high completion percentage with average yards. Teddy threw the ball 30 times yesterday in the 2nd half and only completed 17 of them for 165 yards. I don't know why people are afraid to say he's a bad QB. I'm happy for him and his story was great coming back from that injury, but we don't have to pretend like he's better than he is. I think Sean Payton is having a difficult time accepting that reality as well, but if they want a chance to win a few games while Brees is out, they need to start Hill sooner rather than later.

I call him a game manager because he can do enough for a good team to win. Obviously with this post I am the conductor of Hill>Bridgewater, but I think he has still earned that title. He's decent. The problem is decent isn't good enough for teams with playoff aspirations. It might get the team there like Alex Smith (a GOOD game manager), but it won't be enough 95% of the time to get it done. Flacco did it though, and so did Foles. Both QBs I put in the same talent tier as Bridgewater, though higher in that tier.

Flacco and Foles are not game managers. They're hot and cold QBs that got hot at the right time, not unlike Eli Manning

[Goddard]

Well that was on the road against a top notch D. If there are people who wanted to discount Lamar Jacksons first game because it was against the Dolphins - maybe some owners need to remember that the Saints were on the road against the Rams. I think Bridgewater should not be judged on his 2nd actual NFL game (pre-season excluded) since 2015 without that context added.

I don't think a lot will change against a different opponent. I just don't think he's very good and to me is a below average QB.

[Goddard]

I don't even think I'd call Bridgewater a game manager. Game managers typically throw 20-30 times per game and usually have a high completion percentage with average yards. Teddy threw the ball 30 times yesterday in the 2nd half and only completed 17 of them for 165 yards. I don't know why people are afraid to say he's a bad QB. I'm happy for him and his story was great coming back from that injury, but we don't have to pretend like he's better than he is. I think Sean Payton is having a difficult time accepting that reality as well, but if they want a chance to win a few games while Brees is out, they need to start Hill sooner rather than later.

I call him a game manager because he can do enough for a good team to win. Obviously with this post I am the conductor of Hill>Bridgewater, but I think he has still earned that title. He's decent. The problem is decent isn't good enough for teams with playoff aspirations. It might get the team there like Alex Smith (a GOOD game manager), but it won't be enough 95% of the time to get it done. Flacco did it though, and so did Foles. Both QBs I put in the same talent tier as Bridgewater, though higher in that tier.

I'd still say Flacco, Foles, and Smith are/were better QBs and don't think Bridgewater is as good. If you put Bridgewater on that Ravens team or Eagles team, I don't think they win the superbowl.

[ArrylT]

Well that was on the road against a top notch D. If there are people who wanted to discount Lamar Jacksons first game because it was against the Dolphins - maybe some owners need to remember that the Saints were on the road against the Rams. I think Bridgewater should not be judged on his 2nd actual NFL game (pre-season excluded) since 2015 without that context added.

I absolutely discount LJ's first game against the Dolphins. Also discounting his performance in a last moment victory vs. an awful Cardinals team with a rookie HC and rookie qb.

Well that is exactly my point. How can we make judgements against QBs with so little tape/stats/evidence. Yet Murray & Lamar Jackson each have had much more in the way of 1st team reps than I bet Teddy Bridgewater has had.

I feel that judging Teddy Bridgewater on 1 half of a game against the Rams and saying he is going to play poorly going forward is going in with pre-conceived mindset, and finding fault because some evidence matched our already decided mindset. Its been about 4 years since Bridgewater has been a Starter. A lot can change ...

There is little evidence that Taysom Hill will be the answer - mostly hopes & dreams based on limited pre-season game tape & perhaps projecting his performances as a football player onto the QB Role. Maybe Bridgewater will not be the answer, but NFL Teams want to win games & the Saints feel he is the best answer to win games (and they were not alone in wanting Bridgewater). They do not want to see what they have in Hill unless they absolutely have to (imo). That has been shown since Day I (IE if the Saints wanted Hill to be their backup he would not be risked in so many different roles).

You'll note I have said absolutely nothing against Taysom Hill re: talent. I've only noted that Bridgewaters contract, the situation the Saints find themselves in, and all the roles Hill plays for the Saints. Its going to take a fair amount of bad results to change that imho. Hopefully the Saints wont even need to find out as Bridgewater ideally will play well enough that the Saints will be kept in divisonal contention.

Regardless, if the Saints do go 0-4 for their next four games, I fully expect all the people that want the Saints to start Hill to say 'See we should have started Hill'. Unfortunately that is bad process and vindication of bad process. Going into something with a result in mind, and then taking the result given as proof that we were correct.

Also kudos to you as the OP for taking a stance and believing in Hill. And congratulations in advance if your stance is the right one!

[Lumps]

I agree with you -- Sean Payton calling Hill the next Steve Young may end up very fitting.

Except that was the most absurd quote. From every single angle. I wonder if even half the posters in this thread have even seen Young play? For that matter, has Payton?

[Blueboy]

I agree with you -- Sean Payton calling Hill the next Steve Young may end up very fitting.

Except that was the most absurd quote. From every single angle. I wonder if even half the posters in this thread have even seen Young play? For that matter, has Payton?

One would assume he means from a career trajectory standpoint. Spending his early years as Montana's backup and eventually being unleashed.

[notweswelker]

I agree with you -- Sean Payton calling Hill the next Steve Young may end up very fitting.

Except that was the most absurd quote. From every single angle. I wonder if even half the posters in this thread have even seen Young play? For that matter, has Payton?

I think the comment was mostly referencing the fact Steve Young played a sort of complimentary role behind/with Montana, only for Montana to get injured and then have Young step in and take over. Combined with Young's late NFL start and the fact he was a scrambler, there are some parallels. It's obviously not nearly a direct 1:1 as Young was actually actively pushing for the QB1 job prior to the injury. But it is a bit ironic, he calls him Steve Young and then his QB1 goes down and now a lot of people feel Hill is best #2 there.

[Kaz]

I don't really think it's accurate to say we know that Bridgewater will be based on past film. There's just so little of it with an actually competent offense. He was stuck behind arguably the worst line in football for his two years with the vikings with pretty much nothing at WR other than Rudolph. He didn't have AP for one of those years either, so it's kinda hard to really evaluate a player that only had starting tape from his first 2 years in such awful circumstances. I think you could make an argument that he has the potential for growth just because of how little playing time and experience he actually has had between that and the 2 or so years rehabbing his shredded knee.

[pvillebiker]

I agree with you -- Sean Payton calling Hill the next Steve Young may end up very fitting.

Except that was the most absurd quote. From every single angle. I wonder if even half the posters in this thread have even seen Young play? For that matter, has Payton?

I think the comment was mostly referencing the fact Steve Young played a sort of complimentary role behind/with Montana, only for Montana to get injured and then have Young step in and take over. Combined with Young's late NFL start and the fact he was a scrambler, there are some parallels. It's obviously not nearly a direct 1:1 as Young was actually actively pushing for the QB1 job prior to the injury. But it is a bit ironic, he calls him Steve Young and then his QB1 goes down and now a lot of people feel Hill is best #2 there.

or it could simply be that both Hill & Young were running QB's that went to the same university (BYU). I interpreted it as a semi-hyperbolic statement by Peyton that Taysom is more than a running QB.

[notweswelker]

Im picking up Taysom. Having dreams of some sort of read/run option with him and Kamara.

That's what I see too.
See my post from yesterday. I am the conductor of the Taysom Hill is the second coming of Jesus train.

Please hop aboard we have plenty of space at the moment while the non-believers still worship their false god (Teddy basic ball Bridgewater) but the time is coming for Hill to rise up.

[dizzler]

All sunday during the game I was saying.. Put Taysom in or you don't have a chance of winning. Teddy doesn't cut it. He's below average. Taysom isn't a great QB or an above average QB by any means.. but he makes one of the most deadliest offenses already more versatile and that alone changes a defensive scheme against that offense. Defense now has to guard the run, pass, QB run, RPO ( if implemented correctly). That's screaming profit vs running old Bridgewater out there to throw for 5 yards at a time

I picked up Taysom in all of my SF leagues this week. Not so much for this weekend but I feel like if the Saints lose another and Teddy struggles, they have no choice but to give him a chance.

[notweswelker]

Well that is exactly my point. How can we make judgements against QBs with so little tape/stats/evidence. Yet Murray & Lamar Jackson each have had much more in the way of 1st team reps than I bet Teddy Bridgewater has had.

I feel that judging Teddy Bridgewater on 1 half of a game against the Rams and saying he is going to play poorly going forward is going in with pre-conceived mindset, and finding fault because some evidence matched our already decided mindset. Its been about 4 years since Bridgewater has been a Starter. A lot can change ...

I appreciate the kudos but we've seen a whole lot of Bridgewater at this point. ~4ish years of the same type of play. Going into the 1 half of the Rams game was just a continuation of who he has been. I'd say that 1 half of the Rams game is the least concerning bit of his history, considering he was thrown in with no reps. What was way more concerning was week 17 of last season, a game he was prepped for all week and then proceeded to get outclassed by UDFA Kyle Allen who whopped him 33-14, with even the 14 points coming in garbage time 4th Quarter.
Bridgewater absolutely Bridgewatering to the tune of 14/22 for 118 yards, 1 td 1 pick. Box score below. You'll also see, playmaker Taysom Hill had a td in that game, despite only touching the ball 4 times.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 300nor.htm

When he was starting he looked completely uninspiring and unable to be a difference maker. Beyond that, in a QB starved league, with a probowl on his resume at a young age, he couldn't even get into a real competition for a QB-1 job.
Bridgewater isn't a difference maker. He's not. I say it completely baldly with no reservations. Maybe he'll have one good week out of 3 or 4.
Taysom Hill, might be a difference maker. I watch everything. I mean quite literally everything. The best QB not starting week 1 from this pre-season was Taysom Hill. I put him handily over the guy who was in the number 2 spot(in my opinion), Daniel Jones, who is coincidentally starting this week.

I could easily be wrong, but I firmly believe in what I see.