O.J. Howard Thread
Re: O.J. Howard
Picks 5-12 will all be about the same imo. Howard could go 5, or fall to the end of the round.
TEs have sucked for a long time. The 2013 class is the only source of TEs since Gronk. This class is said to rival that class. Most people here say that TES don't have the value of the rbs and wrs. Look at that 2013 draft. The TEs are among the most valuable assets today from draft. Bell, Hopkins, Allen, are the only guys from that class I would say are still better than the 4 TEs. Guys like LMurray, Gio, Lacy, Theo are other guys whom still have value. It takes TEs longer to develop, so in the early years they lose value. While RBs like Stacy/Lacy/Gio gain short term value, just to plummet 1-2 years later. Sure if you are a trade master you could take advantage of these things, but its not as easy to trade as most make it seem.
TEs have sucked for a long time. The 2013 class is the only source of TEs since Gronk. This class is said to rival that class. Most people here say that TES don't have the value of the rbs and wrs. Look at that 2013 draft. The TEs are among the most valuable assets today from draft. Bell, Hopkins, Allen, are the only guys from that class I would say are still better than the 4 TEs. Guys like LMurray, Gio, Lacy, Theo are other guys whom still have value. It takes TEs longer to develop, so in the early years they lose value. While RBs like Stacy/Lacy/Gio gain short term value, just to plummet 1-2 years later. Sure if you are a trade master you could take advantage of these things, but its not as easy to trade as most make it seem.
O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
So per Mizelle's 2017 rookie ADP (link below) O.J. Howard is going 1.07 in 12 team PPR leagues pre NFL draft. There have been mocks that see him going in the top 10, which will likely have him selected before Corey Davis, Mike Williams, Cook, McCaffrey, basically all the top rookie picks other than Fournette. So I was wondering if the community would answer the following:
1. If Howard was the second offensive skill-position player taken off the board, where would you take him?
2. From purely a talent perspective (irrespective to his drafting team's situation and draft position) is he not worthy of top 5-6 consideration?
I just feel like because he's a rookie TE we're eliminating what could be a superior talent from top 5-6 rookie draft consideration. I would also think the fact that he could be an elite TE that should increase his fantasy value due to positional scarcity. See Mizelle's ADP data at link below:
http://www.mizelle.net/mfl/2017/rookies/
1. If Howard was the second offensive skill-position player taken off the board, where would you take him?
2. From purely a talent perspective (irrespective to his drafting team's situation and draft position) is he not worthy of top 5-6 consideration?
I just feel like because he's a rookie TE we're eliminating what could be a superior talent from top 5-6 rookie draft consideration. I would also think the fact that he could be an elite TE that should increase his fantasy value due to positional scarcity. See Mizelle's ADP data at link below:
http://www.mizelle.net/mfl/2017/rookies/
10 Team Half PPR Scoring SF
QB: Mahomes, Hurts, Minshew
RB: Kamara, K. Hunt, Warren, Bigsby, D. Cook, Jamaal Williams, J. Wilson, McLaughlin, McKinnon, J. Kelley
WR: A.J. Brown, Diggs, K. Allen, C. Watson, Cooks, Pickens, W. Robinson
TE: Kelce, J. Smith, Musgrave
QB: Mahomes, Hurts, Minshew
RB: Kamara, K. Hunt, Warren, Bigsby, D. Cook, Jamaal Williams, J. Wilson, McLaughlin, McKinnon, J. Kelley
WR: A.J. Brown, Diggs, K. Allen, C. Watson, Cooks, Pickens, W. Robinson
TE: Kelce, J. Smith, Musgrave
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
i'll probably stick with a ceiling of 1.7, regardless of draft position. while i think he is a tremendous talent we have already seen from his years at bama what can happen if he's not game planned properly, and that is very tough to ignore completely, his stats are pathetic across all 4 years. what team is going to grab him and utilise him properly? are they going to get it right or mess it up like bama did year after year? their is a ton of risk here which i'd be happy with accepting late first, maybe even middle, but certainly not any higher.
Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
The absolute highest I would take OJH would be at 1.06, assuming an uninspiring landing spot for CMC. I think 1.07-1.09 is just right for him as a range, and if you can get him at 1.10-1.12 he becomes excellent value. If you can somehow land him anywhere in the second round and beyond it is a steal.
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
Howard is a stud. It's kinda weird to me.
So Eric Ebron (in that loaded 2014 class) I say be valued as high as 1.05.
Now I understand this class is pretty loaded as well, but I do put it SLIGHTLY below that 2014 class as a whole. Still a great class.
But Howard is a better prospect than Ebron was. So how can he not be considered a top 6 pick?
Idk I think Howard is a rare talent (like most have said) and if you want to take him 1.05/1.06 do it.
Don't get crazy and say he's a top 3 pick but if you love him enough and can't trade down at say 1.05 take your guy
Any thoughts to that?
So Eric Ebron (in that loaded 2014 class) I say be valued as high as 1.05.
Now I understand this class is pretty loaded as well, but I do put it SLIGHTLY below that 2014 class as a whole. Still a great class.
But Howard is a better prospect than Ebron was. So how can he not be considered a top 6 pick?
Idk I think Howard is a rare talent (like most have said) and if you want to take him 1.05/1.06 do it.
Don't get crazy and say he's a top 3 pick but if you love him enough and can't trade down at say 1.05 take your guy
Any thoughts to that?
TEAM 1: 12 man PPR (.25 passing and rushing attempt) dynasty league
QB:Josh Allen, Matt Ryan, Zach Wilson
RB: Saquon Barkley, Jonathan Taylor, JK Dobbins, Najee Harris, Joe Mixon, Deandre Swift
WR: Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Deandre Hopkins, Chris Godwin, Jamaar Chase, Allen Robinson, Rashod Bateman
TE: Kyle Pitts, Hunter Henry
TEAM 2: 10 MAN Superflex. (standard PPR).
QB: Mahomes, Wilson, Stafford, Wentz, Jimmy G
RB: Mccaffrey, Zeke, Javonte, Akers, Jacobs, Edmonds, Henderson, Fournette, Pollard
WR: Adams, Michael Thomas, Keenan Allen, Aiyuk, Odell Beckham, Devonta Smith Julio,Shenault
TE: Travis Kelce, George Kittle
TEAM 3:10 MAN PPR (2 QUARTERBACK LEAGUE took over orphan 2016) Dynasty League
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RB: Mccaffrey, Henry, Aaron Jones, Chubb, Mike Davis
WR: Aj Brown, Terry Mclaurin, Theilen, Godwin, Juedy, Sutton, Watkins, Davis, Crowder
TE: Waller, Engram, Geodtert
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QB:Josh Allen, Matt Ryan, Zach Wilson
RB: Saquon Barkley, Jonathan Taylor, JK Dobbins, Najee Harris, Joe Mixon, Deandre Swift
WR: Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Deandre Hopkins, Chris Godwin, Jamaar Chase, Allen Robinson, Rashod Bateman
TE: Kyle Pitts, Hunter Henry
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QB: Mahomes, Wilson, Stafford, Wentz, Jimmy G
RB: Mccaffrey, Zeke, Javonte, Akers, Jacobs, Edmonds, Henderson, Fournette, Pollard
WR: Adams, Michael Thomas, Keenan Allen, Aiyuk, Odell Beckham, Devonta Smith Julio,Shenault
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RB: Mccaffrey, Henry, Aaron Jones, Chubb, Mike Davis
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
Because Ebron should have never been considered a top 6 pick either. If this TE class is an all time great there's zero value in taking a TE that highly. I would only consider putting him up that high if he hits an elite landing spot like NO (I currently would take him around 1.12 ish) where he has a reasonable chance to produce like a wr2. If you draft him at 1.5, wait the usual two to three years and get greg olsen I just dont see it as worth it.schiewerma21 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:43 pm Howard is a stud. It's kinda weird to me.
So Eric Ebron (in that loaded 2014 class) I say be valued as high as 1.05.
Now I understand this class is pretty loaded as well, but I do put it SLIGHTLY below that 2014 class as a whole. Still a great class.
But Howard is a better prospect than Ebron was. So how can he not be considered a top 6 pick?
Idk I think Howard is a rare talent (like most have said) and if you want to take him 1.05/1.06 do it.
Don't get crazy and say he's a top 3 pick but if you love him enough and can't trade down at say 1.05 take your guy
Any thoughts to that?
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RB: Fournette, cook, mixon, Ajayi, Gordon, Ware, Joe Williams, Hunt, Martin
WR: Evans, TY, Dez, Sammy, Coleman, Diggs, Ross, White, Fitz
TE: Watson, Eifert, Bennet
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Fournette, Zeke, Mixon, mcCaffrey, Joe Williams, Mcnichols, Mack, Martin
Cooper, Evans, Watkins, Coleman, Diggs, Martavis, Chad Williams, Parker
Henry, Rudolph, Hodges
QB: Brady, Wilson
RB: Fournette, cook, mixon, Ajayi, Gordon, Ware, Joe Williams, Hunt, Martin
WR: Evans, TY, Dez, Sammy, Coleman, Diggs, Ross, White, Fitz
TE: Watson, Eifert, Bennet
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
I would hesitate to say that Bama "messed up" with the utilization of Howard, haha. In fact I think they did everything fairly well...Wheelhouse wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:53 am i'll probably stick with a ceiling of 1.7, regardless of draft position. while i think he is a tremendous talent we have already seen from his years at bama what can happen if he's not game planned properly, and that is very tough to ignore completely, his stats are pathetic across all 4 years. what team is going to grab him and utilise him properly? are they going to get it right or mess it up like bama did year after year? their is a ton of risk here which i'd be happy with accepting late first, maybe even middle, but certainly not any higher.
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HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
Wildabeast good take and thanks for enhancing this discussion.
Curious are the rest of these tight ends though day 1 starters like Howard? I get the class is viewed as great but:
Njoku is very raw he may take 1-2
Engram is a capable blocker but he obviously has a lot of work to do. He's kinda like mccaffrey will need a spot.
Hodges literally can't block and was never asked to
So Howard is the only tight end that I can gauranteee is a 3 down tight end year one.
I think that has added value no?
Curious are the rest of these tight ends though day 1 starters like Howard? I get the class is viewed as great but:
Njoku is very raw he may take 1-2
Engram is a capable blocker but he obviously has a lot of work to do. He's kinda like mccaffrey will need a spot.
Hodges literally can't block and was never asked to
So Howard is the only tight end that I can gauranteee is a 3 down tight end year one.
I think that has added value no?
TEAM 1: 12 man PPR (.25 passing and rushing attempt) dynasty league
QB:Josh Allen, Matt Ryan, Zach Wilson
RB: Saquon Barkley, Jonathan Taylor, JK Dobbins, Najee Harris, Joe Mixon, Deandre Swift
WR: Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Deandre Hopkins, Chris Godwin, Jamaar Chase, Allen Robinson, Rashod Bateman
TE: Kyle Pitts, Hunter Henry
TEAM 2: 10 MAN Superflex. (standard PPR).
QB: Mahomes, Wilson, Stafford, Wentz, Jimmy G
RB: Mccaffrey, Zeke, Javonte, Akers, Jacobs, Edmonds, Henderson, Fournette, Pollard
WR: Adams, Michael Thomas, Keenan Allen, Aiyuk, Odell Beckham, Devonta Smith Julio,Shenault
TE: Travis Kelce, George Kittle
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RB: Mccaffrey, Henry, Aaron Jones, Chubb, Mike Davis
WR: Aj Brown, Terry Mclaurin, Theilen, Godwin, Juedy, Sutton, Watkins, Davis, Crowder
TE: Waller, Engram, Geodtert
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QB:Josh Allen, Matt Ryan, Zach Wilson
RB: Saquon Barkley, Jonathan Taylor, JK Dobbins, Najee Harris, Joe Mixon, Deandre Swift
WR: Tyreek Hill, Justin Jefferson, Deandre Hopkins, Chris Godwin, Jamaar Chase, Allen Robinson, Rashod Bateman
TE: Kyle Pitts, Hunter Henry
TEAM 2: 10 MAN Superflex. (standard PPR).
QB: Mahomes, Wilson, Stafford, Wentz, Jimmy G
RB: Mccaffrey, Zeke, Javonte, Akers, Jacobs, Edmonds, Henderson, Fournette, Pollard
WR: Adams, Michael Thomas, Keenan Allen, Aiyuk, Odell Beckham, Devonta Smith Julio,Shenault
TE: Travis Kelce, George Kittle
TEAM 3:10 MAN PPR (2 QUARTERBACK LEAGUE took over orphan 2016) Dynasty League
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RB: Mccaffrey, Henry, Aaron Jones, Chubb, Mike Davis
WR: Aj Brown, Terry Mclaurin, Theilen, Godwin, Juedy, Sutton, Watkins, Davis, Crowder
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
I am debating him at 1.07, though I don't want to to be honest. I really need a TE, but the only reason beyond that is I don't like anybody else at 1.07 that much. For now at least. Kind of hoping somebody grabs him top six and I can grab a second tier TE in the second rd.
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
Good points so far. The bolded is one of the main reasons I created the thread. I think he's just getting put at the 7 spot because he's a first round talent, but we haven't really compared him against the established to 6 guys. I don't really know enough to say he should or shouldn't be ranked higher, but I do know that many teams are considering taking him very highly in the draft, which should make us think he could be as valuable as others taken laterFriction wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:21 pm I am debating him at 1.07, though I don't want to to be honest. I really need a TE, but the only reason beyond that is I don't like anybody else at 1.07 that much. For now at least. Kind of hoping somebody grabs him top six and I can grab a second tier TE in the second rd.
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WR: A.J. Brown, Diggs, K. Allen, C. Watson, Cooks, Pickens, W. Robinson
TE: Kelce, J. Smith, Musgrave
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RB: Kamara, K. Hunt, Warren, Bigsby, D. Cook, Jamaal Williams, J. Wilson, McLaughlin, McKinnon, J. Kelley
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
Once you start getting into that 1.06-1.07 area, the draft starts to tail off some. The combination of that and Howard's freakish talent, makes him an attractive selection there.
The issue is that TE's develop very, very slow. And people hate spending 1st round value on them and having to wait 4-5 years before they finally become studs. Also, while Howard is one of the most talented offensive players in this class, he is a projection. We have never seen Howard used at his "full capability" and we're not even sure that he'd be good if he was. I think he was misused at Alabama, but sometimes you have to wonder if they simply knew things that we don't know. Otherwise, why would they not use a 6'6 TE with that type of athleticism and mismatch potential? Is Lane Kiffin just that dumb? Possibly.
There's a lot to consider. Howard doesn't come without risks, but I think 1.06-1.08 is probably about right.
The issue is that TE's develop very, very slow. And people hate spending 1st round value on them and having to wait 4-5 years before they finally become studs. Also, while Howard is one of the most talented offensive players in this class, he is a projection. We have never seen Howard used at his "full capability" and we're not even sure that he'd be good if he was. I think he was misused at Alabama, but sometimes you have to wonder if they simply knew things that we don't know. Otherwise, why would they not use a 6'6 TE with that type of athleticism and mismatch potential? Is Lane Kiffin just that dumb? Possibly.
There's a lot to consider. Howard doesn't come without risks, but I think 1.06-1.08 is probably about right.
Last edited by Cameron Giles on Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
I never draft TEs in rookie drafts ..... Yet I'm hoping that Howard drops to the 1.07 in a TE premium and to the 1.12 in a standard scoring league.
I don't think he will and will then hope Engram gets a decent situation and will draft him instead.
I don't think he will and will then hope Engram gets a decent situation and will draft him instead.
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
You honestly expect Howard to be a starter, and play every snap, as a rookie? Yikes. I would take that bet.schiewerma21 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:22 pm Wildabeast good take and thanks for enhancing this discussion.
Curious are the rest of these tight ends though day 1 starters like Howard? I get the class is viewed as great but:
Njoku is very raw he may take 1-2
Engram is a capable blocker but he obviously has a lot of work to do. He's kinda like mccaffrey will need a spot.
Hodges literally can't block and was never asked to
So Howard is the only tight end that I can guarantee is a 3 down tight end year one.
I think that has added value no?
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
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MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
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MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
Im deciding between OJ and John Ross at 7, also looking to see what I can get for trading out of the spot.
For me it's between Ross and OJ because they are the BPA there tbh
OJ with a very impressive combine, but lack luster production because he was blocking so much, so this is a big ?/red flag for me. With that said he looked good when he does get the ball, strong hands and has the ability to make YAC with his size and athleticism. He is too big for most CBs, and too athletically gifted for LBs to stick with him, very good mismatch possibilities for a team that doesn't need him to block on every play.
Ross Killed the combine and from what I have seen on tape he has good hands (small but he makes the catches), decent but not great route in terms of technicality, but he has a pretty good arsenal of moves for getting off the line or setting up short routes, but he uses his pure speed to win in the intermediate and deep routes. He can track the ball well down field, and uses his speed to make YAC. My main concern with Ross is his injury history, and MCL and ACL I believe.
For me the decider is landing spot.
I think 1.06-1.08 is where OJ should be depending on your feelings on Mixon, and the landing spots of the other rookies.
For me it's between Ross and OJ because they are the BPA there tbh
OJ with a very impressive combine, but lack luster production because he was blocking so much, so this is a big ?/red flag for me. With that said he looked good when he does get the ball, strong hands and has the ability to make YAC with his size and athleticism. He is too big for most CBs, and too athletically gifted for LBs to stick with him, very good mismatch possibilities for a team that doesn't need him to block on every play.
Ross Killed the combine and from what I have seen on tape he has good hands (small but he makes the catches), decent but not great route in terms of technicality, but he has a pretty good arsenal of moves for getting off the line or setting up short routes, but he uses his pure speed to win in the intermediate and deep routes. He can track the ball well down field, and uses his speed to make YAC. My main concern with Ross is his injury history, and MCL and ACL I believe.
For me the decider is landing spot.
I think 1.06-1.08 is where OJ should be depending on your feelings on Mixon, and the landing spots of the other rookies.
12 Team 1 ppr .1 points per carry
Garbage
QB Jalen Hurts
RB A-train, D'Onta Foreman,Jahmyr Gibbs, JK Dobbins, Rashaad Penny, AJ Dillon, Jerrick McKinnon, Joshua Kelley, TDP, Chase Edmonds, JRob, Zamir White
WR CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, DJ Moore, Hollywood Brown, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham Junior, Marvin Jones, Braxton Berrios, Richie James
TE Dalton Kincaid, Foster Moreau
+2 Flex
1.02, 1.06
Garbage
QB Jalen Hurts
RB A-train, D'Onta Foreman,Jahmyr Gibbs, JK Dobbins, Rashaad Penny, AJ Dillon, Jerrick McKinnon, Joshua Kelley, TDP, Chase Edmonds, JRob, Zamir White
WR CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, DJ Moore, Hollywood Brown, Brandin Cooks, Odell Beckham Junior, Marvin Jones, Braxton Berrios, Richie James
TE Dalton Kincaid, Foster Moreau
+2 Flex
1.02, 1.06
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?
In TE premium leagues, Howard is absolutely in play at 1.04. Not a lock of course, but he's every bit as good a bet as the others likely available there, Williams, Mixon, McCaffrey. Betting he goes 1.04 - 1.06 in my TE premie league this year.
It's funny how most of us acknowledge what an utter crap shoot rookie picks are, yes including 1st rounders, yet we act like there's some absolutely correct ordering. Face it, it's all an educated guess now with a lot of hope. That'll be up ended even more by the NFL draft. It's not improbable that 2 years from now, Howard has at least as much value as the others listed above. That's a bet you take all day in a TE premium league.
It's funny how most of us acknowledge what an utter crap shoot rookie picks are, yes including 1st rounders, yet we act like there's some absolutely correct ordering. Face it, it's all an educated guess now with a lot of hope. That'll be up ended even more by the NFL draft. It's not improbable that 2 years from now, Howard has at least as much value as the others listed above. That's a bet you take all day in a TE premium league.
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