O.J. Howard Thread

[GridironGuerilla]

I always had OJ at the bottom of the group of 4 (Henry, Njoku, Engram, OJ) behind the big 3, but ya I have Hockenson at least 4th now for sure. Hockenson might be my TE1 in dynasty by next year.

omg hock is just the best!!!!! love everything he does each and every week!!!

Some solid input right there

I believe it was Sarcasm.

[Bot101]

Im not concerned with the week 2 output. The Panthers have one of the best defensive lines in the league, and the Bucs Oline is a group of traffic cones. Arians needed Howard to block and it reminds me very similarly to 2 years ago when Hunter Henry goose egged everyone week 1 because he had the exact same scenario.

Week 1 Howard and Brate ran a similar number of routes per drop back. Week 2 Howard ran way more than Brate. Also from some clips on twitter that I've seen, Howard was running the same type of downfield routes hes always ran and was wide open multiple times. Winston just never looked his way at all. This is a golden opportunity to buy low for anyone who believes in the talent.

[Johnny Canuck]

This is directed at the overall thread theme thus far

Let's pump the brakes on a couple fronts here shall we...

1. Hock has played one game, one...against a bottom 5 NFL defense. Two of his big plays came on busted coverages, where he had nothing but space, without doing anything to really create it. He's a great prospect but before we anoint him TE4 status, maybe we should wait for, you know, maybe two games, or even three...OR be willing to put Mark Andrews in Hock's tier...let's just wait a few more games...

2. Why is Engram dropping tiers? or even dropping at all? Engram looked like a stud out there in week 1, and I'm not sure why he would drop tiers at all.

3. It's two games for OJH. He's got a bad situation, so fine drop him rankings a bit to reflect his redraft/2019 value, but not that much because we're playing dynasty obviously. He's the TE version of Corey Davis...so if you've ever used the talent vs situation argument...this is the same. He's a great blocker, and the Buc's have a trash o-line...just the way it goes some games.

[GridironGuerilla]

This is directed at the overall thread theme thus far

Let's pump the brakes on a couple fronts here shall we...

1. Hock has played one game, one...against a bottom 5 NFL defense. Two of his big plays came on busted coverages, where he had nothing but space, without doing anything to really create it. He's a great prospect but before we anoint him TE4 status, maybe we should wait for, you know, maybe two games, or even three...

2. Why is Engram dropping tiers? or even dropping at all? Engram looked like a stud out there in week 1, and I'm not sure why he would drop tiers at all.

3. It's two games for OJH. He's got a bad situation, so fine drop him rankings a bit to reflect his redraft/2019 value, but not that much because we're playing dynasty obviously. He's the TE version of Corey Davis...so if you've ever used the talent vs situation argument...this is the same. He's a great blocker, and the Buc's have a trash o-line...just the way it goes some games.

This is spot on IMO.

[bjd5211]

Sure if Hockenson was some mid round pick who came in and had a great game it would be too early to give it much thought or bump him up. He's not though, he was a top 10 pick touted as one of the best TE prospects to ever enter the league, and he's done nothing to show that wasn't warranted. I was also told I was crazy and being premature last year saying I would take Barkley before he ever played a game last year over guys like David Johnson and Leveon Bell, hell I was willing to take him 1.01 in startups if I had done any last year. I value guys on what I expect them to do going forward, not what they have done. I already had Hockenson as the #8 TE in Dynasty from the moment he entered the league, so to jump him up to 4 after what he and the others that were ahead of him have done is not a big reach in my opinion. Hockenson is a special player and now is the time to acquire him, his value os only going to go up going forward.

[grandmabetty]

Sure if Hockenson was some mid round pick who came in and had a great game it would be too early to give it much thought or bump him up. He's not though, he was a top 10 pick touted as one of the best TE prospects to ever enter the league, and he's done nothing to show that wasn't warranted. I was also told I was crazy and being premature last year saying I would take Barkley before he ever played a game last year over guys like David Johnson and Leveon Bell, hell I was willing to take him 1.01 in startups if I had done any last year. I value guys on what I expect them to do going forward, not what they have done. I already had Hockenson as the #8 TE in Dynasty from the moment he entered the league, so to jump him up to 4 after what he and the others that were ahead of him have done is not a big reach in my opinion. Hockenson is a special player and now is the time to acquire him, his value os only going to go up going forward.

To some extent yes i agree with you that you should trust your own evaluation and determine what your expectations for a player are going to be but cmon man we are talking about a rookie. You had high expectations for a rookie???? You don't say. NOBODY on this message board or in draft rooms/locker rooms, has ever had high expectations for a rookie only to watch them wash out of the league after accomplishing nothing. I can think of about a trillion rookie players i had high expectations for and maybe 5% of them ever amounted to more than a flex option. My point is to say you base your evaluations of a rookie solely on what your expectations of them are is about the most flawed way i can imagine building a team.

[bjd5211]

Every single great player in this league was an unknown and unproven rookie at one point. I'm not counting on rookies, I'm betting on their careers as a whole and Hockenson is about as good a bet as there as ever been at his position. Sure I get burned occasionally, but the hits outweigh the misses and there are always new bets coming into the league every year. My ranking of Hockenson doesn't mean I expect him to finish as the #4 TE in scoring this year or potentially #1 next year, it means that's where I rank him in value in Dynasty. Acquiring players BEFORE everyone else is ready to rank them as top players at their position results in a great deal of savings, opposed to trying to draft or trade for them when they are eatablished as top options.

[Space Cowboy]

For the moment, I'm willing to chalk it up to Arians wanting to protect Winston more after Week 1 and help get the running game going. Howard is a fantastic athlete and pass-catcher, but he's also a fantastic run and pass blocker. Indeed, if we think back to his initial draft, he was so high on boards because his blocking insured that he wouldn't come off the field. That's an asset, one that Arians has been using.

That being said, there is cause for concern that this is more of a trend with Arians than a blip. We'll have to wait over the next few weeks to see if Arians tries to use Howard's receiving skill set or leaves that for Brate, a far less reliable blocker.

Yes, this. It was one game. Sheesh.

[Space Cowboy]

Wasn’t arians the OC in Pittsburgh when they featured heath miller for years?

[ericanadian]

Wasn’t arians the OC in Pittsburgh when they featured heath miller for years?

Heath Miller did alright, but not sure he was ever “featured”. His best season in terms of production was after Arians departed.

[FiremanEd]

OJH and Hockenson are similar players to me. Both quality blockers, good athletes, and guys who can create YAC. They are all around TE's that won't leave the field and have heavy investment by their franchises by being 1st round picks. Ups and downs will happen, but both are still top 10 TE's and should remain there for an extended period of time.

The usage early is concerning, and OJH truthfully had a poor Week 1 (red zone fumble, drop that caused an INT), but I expect a rebound. Frankly, the fact that the low point is at the start of the season, rather than mid-season, magnifies the concern and opens up a buy window as fear runs rampant. I'd be happy to buy if i had a TE needy team looking to acquire a long-term TE1 at a reduced cost. OJH is that type of talent.

[Kaz]

I just want to point this out. Arians isn't the one calling plays. It's Leftwich.

[Phaded]

I just want to point this out. Arians isn't the one calling plays. It's Leftwich.

Yeah but probably not for long.
Leftwich is bad at this.

[blemly]

Arians on OJH: “He can play a lot better.”

Sounds like an attempt to motivate him.

[FiremanEd]

Arians on OJH: “He can play a lot better.”

Sounds like an attempt to motivate him.

A combination of both probably. His Week 1 was not good when he was visible (drop to interception, red zone fumble). In Week 2 he was invisible.