New Gurley Usage

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
hoos89
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby hoos89 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:40 pm

Tom Brady is 42. 6 years ago he was 36, not 31.

I do think it's generally a fair comparison to make between Gurley and any older player because we're essentially seeing him valued as if he's 29 (or 36 in QB years).
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Michel, Burkhead, D. Harris, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin, Washington
Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Da. Moore, Lazard
Ertz, Herndon, OJ
IR(2): Love, Coleman
Taxi(4): Jacobs, DJ Moore, Sutton, MVS
2020 Picks: 1st x 4, 2nd x 2, 3rd, 4th, 5th

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Flacco, Tannehill, Stidham
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Higbee, Reed
2020 Picks: 1st x 5, 2nd x 2

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

User avatar
Goddard
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 26214
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:21 am

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby Goddard » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:42 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:27 pm
Given that we price players like Conner and Jones as high RB2s/fringe RB1s even though there's a pretty good chance they won't be a lead back anywhere 2 years from now, I think it's reasonable to say that the market considers 2 seasons of fringe RB1 production to be pretty valuable.
As for Conner, I disagree that he won't be a lead back 2 years from now. I think he's shown well and barring injury or any other unforeseen incidents, I think he's the RB of the future for the Steelers...which will probably be longer than 2 years. As for Jones, I don't value him anywhere near some of the other top RB1s. But if you want to value Gurley similarly to Jones, I won't argue with you there.

User avatar
Goddard
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 26214
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:21 am

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby Goddard » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:43 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:40 pm
Tom Brady is 42. 6 years ago he was 36, not 31.
Point still stands. And you're missing it again. I'll try to make it one more time really quickly lol. Whether it was early or mid 30s, Brady played at a high level for 6 more years. Is that what we're expecting from Gurley...cuz that's the argument that's being made.

hoos89
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby hoos89 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:44 pm

Goddard wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:42 pm
hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:27 pm
Given that we price players like Conner and Jones as high RB2s/fringe RB1s even though there's a pretty good chance they won't be a lead back anywhere 2 years from now, I think it's reasonable to say that the market considers 2 seasons of fringe RB1 production to be pretty valuable.
As for Conner, I disagree that he won't be a lead back 2 years from now. I think he's shown well and barring injury or any other unforeseen incidents, I think he's the RB of the future for the Steelers...which will probably be longer than 2 years. As for Jones, I don't value him anywhere near some of the other top RB1s. But if you want to value Gurley similarly to Jones, I won't argue with you there.
I think Jones and Conner are valued similarly by a lot of people. I also don't think most people currently value Conner as an RB1.
Goddard wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:43 pm
hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:40 pm
Tom Brady is 42. 6 years ago he was 36, not 31.
Point still stands. And you're missing it again. I'll try to make it one more time really quickly lol. Whether it was early or mid 30s, Brady played at a high level for 6 more years. Is that what we're expecting from Gurley...cuz that's the argument that's being made.
No it's not. The argument is that Brady played longer than was expected at a high level, not that he played specifically for 6 years, and also generally that dynasty players have a tendency to perhaps undervalue older players (and we're essentially considering Gurley "old" now due to the knees). Also, like I said, given that QBs play for about twice as long as RBs that would be comparable to saying we expect Gurley to continue going for 3 more years. And yeah, if Gurley puts up 3 more years of RB 10-14-ish numbers then I think he's currently undervalued on the trade market.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Michel, Burkhead, D. Harris, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin, Washington
Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Da. Moore, Lazard
Ertz, Herndon, OJ
IR(2): Love, Coleman
Taxi(4): Jacobs, DJ Moore, Sutton, MVS
2020 Picks: 1st x 4, 2nd x 2, 3rd, 4th, 5th

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Flacco, Tannehill, Stidham
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Higbee, Reed
2020 Picks: 1st x 5, 2nd x 2

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

User avatar
Goddard
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 26214
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:21 am

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby Goddard » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:51 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:44 pm
Goddard wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:42 pm
hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:27 pm
Given that we price players like Conner and Jones as high RB2s/fringe RB1s even though there's a pretty good chance they won't be a lead back anywhere 2 years from now, I think it's reasonable to say that the market considers 2 seasons of fringe RB1 production to be pretty valuable.
As for Conner, I disagree that he won't be a lead back 2 years from now. I think he's shown well and barring injury or any other unforeseen incidents, I think he's the RB of the future for the Steelers...which will probably be longer than 2 years. As for Jones, I don't value him anywhere near some of the other top RB1s. But if you want to value Gurley similarly to Jones, I won't argue with you there.
I think Jones and Conner are valued similarly by a lot of people. I also don't think most people currently value Conner as an RB1.
Goddard wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:43 pm
hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:40 pm
Tom Brady is 42. 6 years ago he was 36, not 31.
Point still stands. And you're missing it again. I'll try to make it one more time really quickly lol. Whether it was early or mid 30s, Brady played at a high level for 6 more years. Is that what we're expecting from Gurley...cuz that's the argument that's being made.
No it's not. The argument is that Brady played longer than was expected at a high level, not that he played specifically for 6 years, and also generally that dynasty players have a tendency to perhaps undervalue older players (and we're essentially considering Gurley "old" now due to the knees). Also, like I said, given that QBs play for about twice as long as RBs that would be comparable to saying we expect Gurley to continue going for 3 more years. And yeah, if Gurley puts up 3 more years of RB 10-14-ish numbers then I think he's currently undervalued on the trade market.
Then I guess that's where we disagree. I don't see Gurley playing at a high level for 3 more years. And I would think notweswelker thinks that too with his comment about Gurley's knee issues not going anywhere...hopefully we can end this conversation now.

User avatar
lukkynumber13
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 11201
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby lukkynumber13 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:02 pm

Am I in heaven?

No. You’re in the DLF Forum.
TEAM A - 12 teams (2018 champ, 2017 R/U)
BREES, Jimmy G, Rivers, Dalton
COOK/JACOBS/GURLEY, Shady, Gio, Gallman, Walton, B Hill, Ollison, D Washington, Scarlett, Foreman, Ware, Rodney A
NUK/HILL/EVANS/GOLLADAY/K ALLEN, Edelman, Alshon, Sammy, P Campbell, JJAW, Wims, Dez
KITTLE, OJ Howard, Herndon, Eifert
-
Not listing my IDP, but they matter as much as offense in this league
///
///
TEAM B - 32 teams, double copy - TEs get slight bump in scoring (1st year league, tanking this year to build through 2020 draft)
DARNOLD, Carr, Rosen, Tyrod
KAMARA/MIXON/GORDON
NUK/OBJ/EVANS/HOLLYWOOD/SHEPARD, Couttee, Latimer, Duke W
ANDREWS/NJOKU, Ian Thomas, James O
-
Danielle Hunter, Ngakoue, and then a bunch of maybes for IDP

hoos89
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby hoos89 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:18 pm

Gurley has the knee issue. It's not going anywhere. We all know this. That doesn't mean that anyone who acknowledges that must also believe that Gurley can't be borderline RB1 for 3 seasons.

Very weird attempt to "gotcha" another poster by searching comment history.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Michel, Burkhead, D. Harris, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin, Washington
Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Da. Moore, Lazard
Ertz, Herndon, OJ
IR(2): Love, Coleman
Taxi(4): Jacobs, DJ Moore, Sutton, MVS
2020 Picks: 1st x 4, 2nd x 2, 3rd, 4th, 5th

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Flacco, Tannehill, Stidham
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Higbee, Reed
2020 Picks: 1st x 5, 2nd x 2

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

User avatar
Goddard
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 26214
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:21 am

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby Goddard » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:27 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:18 pm
Gurley has the knee issue. It's not going anywhere. We all know this. That doesn't mean that anyone who acknowledges that must also believe that Gurley can't be borderline RB1 for 3 seasons.

Very weird attempt to "gotcha" another poster by searching comment history.
I didn't really have to search for it. I remember arguing with the same poster about Gurley in a different thread not long ago and then remember him making this comment later. Didn't really need to do an extensive search to find it...already remembered he made the comment, which stood out to me at the time as a bit hypocritical. Decided not to say anything then, but hard to leave it alone when he's going against his own statements now. I guess I'm just blessed with a good memory.

Very weird for you to continue defending him when he never really responded to what I said, other than with disparaging and mocking comments.

hoos89
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby hoos89 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:33 pm

Perhaps because I'm on the same side of this argument, agree with his overall point and I just find it annoying to try to use that to call someone hypocritical because it ignores all nuance/context.

Saying that Gurley has a knee issue in the context of a trade for JuJu is acknowledging that he isn't going to be overall RB1 anymore, not that you believe Gurley is retiring after this season. You're essentially saying that anyone who thinks JuJu for Gurley is a snap accept because of Gurley's knees can't also believe that Gurley will continue to have fantasy value befitting a top ~30 player, which makes no sense given that JuJu is generally viewed as a top 10 player.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Michel, Burkhead, D. Harris, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin, Washington
Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Da. Moore, Lazard
Ertz, Herndon, OJ
IR(2): Love, Coleman
Taxi(4): Jacobs, DJ Moore, Sutton, MVS
2020 Picks: 1st x 4, 2nd x 2, 3rd, 4th, 5th

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Flacco, Tannehill, Stidham
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Higbee, Reed
2020 Picks: 1st x 5, 2nd x 2

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

User avatar
Goddard
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 26214
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:21 am

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby Goddard » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:40 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:33 pm
Perhaps because I'm on the same side of this argument, agree with his overall point and I just find it annoying to try to use that to call someone hypocritical because it ignores all nuance/context.

Saying that Gurley has a knee issue in the context of a trade for JuJu is acknowledging that he isn't going to be overall RB1 anymore, not that you believe Gurley is retiring after this season. You're essentially saying that anyone who thinks JuJu for Gurley is a snap accept because of Gurley's knees can't also believe that Gurley will continue to have fantasy value befitting a top ~30 player, which makes no sense given that JuJu is generally viewed as a top 10 player.
Now you're just putting words in my mouth. There's no point in continuing this discussion. You can keep going back and forth with your opinions until it fits your narrative all you want.

I'm out :wave:

User avatar
Servo
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1720
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:17 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby Servo » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:47 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:10 am
1. The Rams are a good offense (they are NOT a great team, no longer a great offense, but they are still better than the average offense)
Lol what? Who would have thought that putting up 30 PPG is "better than average". Pretty disingenuous. LAR is a fantasy goldmine right now, unless you're a Cooks owner.

I agree that the team itself has taken a step back due to OL play, defense not making big plays, Goff being hit and miss (although he was sharp as nails at the end of the game last night) but don't agree with anything else.
Trucking Through The Fantasy Mud, One Year At a Time.

12-Man, 0.5PPR, Superflex, Start 9
2016 - Runner Up
2017 - Champion
2018 - Champion


Mahomes, Stafford, Mariota, Flacco, Lock
Kerryon, Williams KCC, Hines, Love, Ozigbo, Adams, Barber, Burkhead, Martin, McGuire, Montgomery, Riddick, Wilson Jr.
Allen, Cooks, Fitzgerald, Hopkins, Thielen, Ross, Allison, Hamilton, Lasley
Kelce, Kittle

hoos89
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3668
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby hoos89 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:49 pm

Goddard wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:40 pm

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. There's no point in continuing this discussion. You can keep going back and forth with your opinions until it fits your narrative all you want.

I'm out :wave:
What words was I putting in your mouth, exactly? Because this is the spin you were putting on notweswelker's comment from the other thread and you did say it was hypocritical. Just seems like you realized you either misunderstood his point or were mischaracterizing it and now are backing out rather than admit it.
Team 2: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 R/W/T, 23 man rosters, est. 2016
Wentz, Minshew, Bridgewater, Haskins
Michel, Burkhead, D. Harris, McKinnon, Richard, Gaskin, Washington
Kupp, Kirk, Deebo, Dorsett, J. Gordon, Lee, Da. Moore, Lazard
Ertz, Herndon, OJ
IR(2): Love, Coleman
Taxi(4): Jacobs, DJ Moore, Sutton, MVS
2020 Picks: 1st x 4, 2nd x 2, 3rd, 4th, 5th

Team 3: 12 Team PPR - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 3 R/W/T, 28 man rosters, est. 2019
Ryan, Bridgewater, Flacco, Tannehill, Stidham
Gurley, Barber, M. Brown, Miller, McKinnon, Ito, J. Jackson, R. Anderson, Richard
Thomas, Cooks, Watkins, Anderson, Beasley, Foster, Doctson, KeeSean, Lazard
Hooper, Herndon, Witten, Higbee, Reed
2020 Picks: 1st x 5, 2nd x 2

Team 1: 2012-2016
2013 Champion, 2012 Runner-Up

User avatar
ArrylT
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8051
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby ArrylT » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:10 pm

I think a lot of this recent discussion hinges on subjective interpretation of the meaning or reasoning behind peoples words and perhaps is not likely to produce a fruitful outcome.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

User avatar
Orenthal Shames
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2689
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby Orenthal Shames » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:04 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:54 pm
Orenthal Shames wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:47 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:25 am


Sure, but McVays job is secure no matter what happens this year barring some massive scandal. Sometimes it's just not your year and they could shift their priorities to next year.
Outside of the Hoodie, no HC job is secure.
Sure he has the most job security, but still doesn't change the fact that there is no chance of McVay losing his job after this season for on-field performance reasons. He just took them to the Super Bowl, got a new contract, instantly turned around the franchise and Goff's career from when he started and is the biggest influence over current Head Coaching hires in the league. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Not saying he is, but the Rams are built to win now. If they underperform this year and next, he could absolutely be gone.

Is it likely, probably not. But could it be discussed enough to influence his personnel decision making, yes.
16 team league
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 Flex (RB/WR/TE)
26 man rosters - full point ppr
2015 Champion
2017 Champion
2018 Champion

QB: Brissett, Rudolph, Ben
RB: Gurley, Kamara, Sanders
WR: Julio, OBJ, Keenan
TE: Kelce, Kittle

2020: 1, 2

User avatar
Vcize
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2811
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 4:30 pm

Re: New Gurley Usage

Postby Vcize » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:55 am

Goddard wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:38 pm
This was part of his initial quote: "At no point in time did his trade value reflect that he would be the overall QB3/QB4 for the past 6 years."

To me, he's talking about Brady when he was in his early 30s if we're going back 6 years.
So if we're saying 6 years ago people were sleeping on Brady because they thought he was old, but proved them wrong because he continued to be the QB3/4, what's he suggesting about Gurley now? A rational person would interpret that as people are sleeping on Gurley now and that he'll continue being a high end RB for the next several years. Even though he had already admitted that Gurley has knee issues. So what are we saying here? Is Gurley a good RB to have right now? Sure. Is he going to play at a high level for numerous more years like Brady when people began doubting Brady 6 years ago? Highly doubt it. That's all I've been trying to say this whole time in response to Welker's comment. If I'm misinterpreting his comment about Brady being devalued 6 years ago and still being a stud, and comparing that to Gurley's current situation, then that's my bad. But that's how it was written and that's why I think it's a terrible comparison. If we're comparing Brady of the last couple of years to Gurley this year and next, then sure, I get what you're saying at least. That's not how it was worded though.

Also, I don't remember how QBs were valued 10 years ago, but I'm guessing most of them didn't play at a high level once they hit their mid 30s like some of the recent QBs are.
LOL I can't tell if you're being serious here? There's no need to speculate about what age Brady he was talking about. He literally said he was talking about 36 year old Brady explicitly in the sentence before the one quoted. You literally had to delete that part to go back and copy that quote you pasted.

Regardless, I am no Gurley fan but I think his point is fair. Like Brady then people are treating Gurley like he's basically a redraft option who is only usable for teams that are competing right now, and it's perfectly possible and even reasonable to think that Gurley isn't going to just retire in a few months.

He's not going to be Gurley 1.0 but it's certainly reasonable to speculate that he could continue banging on as a mid-RB2 for the next 5 years while everyone treats his trade value like he's only going to be able to play for another few months the whole time.
Team 1 (12 team FFPC)
QB: Wentz
RB: Cook, A Jones, Mixon, Kerryon, Hunt, Hill, Drake
WR: OBJ, Lockett, ARob, Woods, ARob, Preston
TE: Howard, Cook, Goedert, Njoku, Knox

Team 2 (12 team PPR, q/r/r/w/w/w/f/t/k/d)
QB: Wilson, Dak
RB: Fournette, Kamara, Michel, Kerryon, Blount
WR: Beckham, Thielen, Enunwa, M Williams, Beasely, Amendola
TE: Eifert, Hooper, Gesicki


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Lumps and 2 guests