Houston running backs.

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Pullo Vision
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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby Pullo Vision » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:55 pm

If Tunsil and dumping Stills' contract got Miami 2 1sts and a 2nd, what would Trent Williams get Washington?
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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby ninotoreS » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:16 pm

Phaded wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:28 pm
On paper - their offense? Sure. Their defense? No. This is in the eyes of a fantasy owner.
The loss of Clowney doesn't torpedo the defense to the extent that it wrecks the team as a whole. Clowney hasn't been an all-world caliber player for Houston. He was good for them, but not incredible.

Regardless, history shows big offense > big defense during the regular season. I'd definitely argue that quality defenses are essential in January, but Texans don't need one to win their division.
However, when you look at this roster it has all the makings of something that is going to go up in flames
You're gonna have to elaborate, because I don't see any of those makings. The corps of their ascending offense is young and comfortably under contract. They have a window during Watson's rookie-contract in which it makes sense for them to go balls to the wall in the pursuit of silverware.
I have a hard time seeing them making a deep playoff run. They can probably win the division because.. well, it's the AFC South.
Maybe so, but here's the thing: O'Brien is unlikley to be fired if Houston wins 10+ games again and goes to the playoffs. If they're one or two and done again, that'll hurt, but it should buy O'Brien's regime at least one more season to break through in January.

Which reminds me: another element going under-reported here is that O'Brien has indicated he's only been following McNair's direction this offseason. The comments I read indicate it's actuallly McNair that's the guiding force behind these win-now moves.

I find that easy to believe -- McNair and O'Brien both must know how important it is to go as far as they can while Watson is still on his rookie deal. Watson will probably become the highest paid QB in the league in '21 or '22. They'll won't have a better economic window to win than '19 and '20.
Last edited by ninotoreS on Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby Phaded » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:22 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:16 pm
Phaded wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:28 pm
On paper - their offense? Sure. Their defense? No. This is in the eyes of a fantasy owner.
The loss of Clowney doesn't torpedo the defense to the extent that it wrecks the team as a whole. Clowney hasn't been an all-world caliber player for Houston. He was good for them, but not incredible.

Regardless, history shows big offense > big defense during the regular season. I'd definitely argue that quality defenses are essential in January, but Texans don't need one to win their division.
... Clowney is an elite defensive lineman at stuffing the run, one of the best in the league. People often again defensive line to sacks but there is so much more to it than that.

Again - you must be looking at this as a fantasy owner, their season is meaningless if they go 1 and done in the playoffs. They are lucky to be in a terrible division, but they are not a SB contender.
Do you want a logical debate?
You are in the wrong place.

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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby ericanadian » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:33 pm

Phaded wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:22 pm
ninotoreS wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:16 pm
Phaded wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:28 pm
On paper - their offense? Sure. Their defense? No. This is in the eyes of a fantasy owner.
The loss of Clowney doesn't torpedo the defense to the extent that it wrecks the team as a whole. Clowney hasn't been an all-world caliber player for Houston. He was good for them, but not incredible.

Regardless, history shows big offense > big defense during the regular season. I'd definitely argue that quality defenses are essential in January, but Texans don't need one to win their division.
... Clowney is an elite defensive lineman at stuffing the run, one of the best in the league. People often again defensive line to sacks but there is so much more to it than that.

Again - you must be looking at this as a fantasy owner, their season is meaningless if they go 1 and done in the playoffs. They are lucky to be in a terrible division, but they are not a SB contender.
Was reading that ESPN tracks pass-rush win rate based on how often a guy beats his block within 2.5 seconds. Clowney was apparently second in the league.

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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/250 ... h-win-rate
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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby Space Cowboy » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:44 pm

bjd5211 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:11 am
Ya, a lot of former front office guys are really killing them for not agreeing to an extension with him before completing the trade. These 3 moves (Duke trade, Clowney trade, Tunsil trade) could really cripple the franchise if this goes badly.
They can always franchise him but I’m not here to make excuses for them. It was an odd move and an overpay.

1 and 3 for Tunsil and 4 is fair. Otherwise move on.

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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby bjd5211 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:48 pm

Clowney has been one of the best in the league at making plays behind the LOS, just because he isn't racking up big sack numbers doesn't mean he hasn't been one of the best in league at his position.

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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby bjd5211 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:50 pm

Space Cowboy wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:44 pm
bjd5211 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:11 am
Ya, a lot of former front office guys are really killing them for not agreeing to an extension with him before completing the trade. These 3 moves (Duke trade, Clowney trade, Tunsil trade) could really cripple the franchise if this goes badly.
They can always franchise him but I’m not here to make excuses for them. It was an odd move and an overpay.

1 and 3 for Tunsil and 4 is fair. Otherwise move on.
They have to extend him eventually, and dragging that out only increases how much he will command as the market gets reset.

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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby sugbear65 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:12 pm

To be fair, Houston still gets their chance to play this out and make it all worth it. I think any organization(other than the Pats) would give up the draft picks they have if it meant winning a Super Bowl. If they can pay it off, then critics be damned.
If not though, yeah this could go very badly for them. Especially if they ever want a real GM instead of “flat management” or whatever the heck they’re calling it now. It will be interesting to see which way it goes.

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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby thebeast » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:01 pm

dlf_mikeh wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:39 am
sugbear65 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:28 am
I would still rather have Hyde over D. Williams, I think Hyde has the better year.
BOLD! I like bold statements. If you're right, you'll get to proudly display this for a long time. gl.
I hope sugar is right, I have a cool $100 riding on this from when Hyde was signed by the Chief. And league side bet in the DLF premium league.
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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby dlf_mikeh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:39 am

Just an FYI:

Karan Higdon made the practice squad. I love this kid, not giving up on him.

Crockett was signed to the Raiders practice squad. I think it's a good fit for him, but his chances to see time on the field went down a tad.

Teams are allowed to sign players from other teams practices squads, so there's a chance we might see one of both of these guys in the future.
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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby ninotoreS » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:24 pm

Torn as to whether or not Duke Johnson should be started in fantasy Week 1. Wish I could find more reports on his practices since becoming a Texan.
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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby bjd5211 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:35 pm

I think he's a safe bet for low RB2 status in PPR formats, could be higher.

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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby Shoreline Steamers » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:23 pm

I'm starting Duke as a 3rd RB in my PPR league. Mainly because I think Carlos Hyde is very "Alfred Blue-ish" at this point in his career. 3-yards and a cloud of dust. Nothing special, and he's no longer a starting calibre talent.

Duke should get all the work he can handle. The question will be, can he hold up and stay healthy with that increase in carries/receptions he'll see when compared to his workload in Cleveland?
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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby Bot101 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:36 pm

Im down to DJ Moore or Duke at flex. Gonna roll with Moore this week since I dont know what I have in Duke just yet.

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Re: Houston running backs.

Postby RCogburn » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 pm

Call it a gut feeling, but I actually think Buddy Howell gets some carries this week. He had a good game in game 2 of the pre season and then didn't play in the 3rd or 4th one. Hyde is a pedestrian talent at this point and Taiwan Jones to me is a special teamer. I don't think the Texans kept both Howell and Jones just to play special teams. We shall see.


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