Playoff Seeding Determination

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Prison_Mike
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Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby Prison_Mike » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:17 am

So I'm in a very strangely set-up dynasty league (super small rosters, treated like a re-draft league)

We're in the process of switching over from Yahoo to Sleeper & the commish has asked us to send him any proposed rule changes so they can be discussed & put to a vote

My biggest problem with the league last year (outside of the atypical dynasty setup) was the playoff seeding

For the regular season, I had the 2nd highest point total by a pretty decent margin;
But had by far the most points scored against me (bad luck) & ended up finishing 9th (out of 10 teams)

Should the point total be factored in when determining playoff seeding?
or should it be based solely on Wins/Losses (with tie-breaker going to the highest point total between those two teams), which is how it's currently set up

How do you guys determine that last playoff spot?
Would you keep this as-is? Or recommend a change?

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killer_of_giants
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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby killer_of_giants » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:26 am

Prison_Mike wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:17 am
Should the point total be factored in when determining playoff seeding?
or should it be based solely on Wins/Losses (with tie-breaker going to the highest point total between those two teams), which is how it's currently set up
if it's head to head, then no, total points scored mean bleep all, they're only a tie-breaker (preferable to the direct matchup result imo).

some leagues use a "play against the average weekly score" parallel to the normal h2h, so that if your teams scores more than the average but is matched up against an even higher score, you go 1-1 for the week, instead of 0-1. i'm not sure i like it, never tried it, but it's something you could propose.

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby UnitedLoon » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:35 am

In my league, we have 10 team league, 6 teams make the playoffs. The top 5 seeds are determined by record. The final seed is determined by points scored.

My thoughts are: if you can't have a good enough record to be a top 5 seed and you also can't also be the highest scoring team of the remaining teams, you should have no complaint about not being in the playoffs. It's worked out pretty good so far. I missed the playoffs one year because of it. The team that made it in over me averaged 11pts more per game than me and swept me in the regular season, so I know he deserved it more than I did.

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Prison_Mike
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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby Prison_Mike » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:35 am

killer_of_giants wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:26 am
Prison_Mike wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:17 am
Should the point total be factored in when determining playoff seeding?
or should it be based solely on Wins/Losses (with tie-breaker going to the highest point total between those two teams), which is how it's currently set up
if it's head to head, then no, total points scored mean bleep all, they're only a tie-breaker (preferable to the direct matchup result imo).

some leagues use a "play against the average weekly score" parallel to the normal h2h, so that if your teams scores more than the average but is matched up against an even higher score, you go 1-1 for the week, instead of 0-1. i'm not sure i like it, never tried it, but it's something you could propose.
Thanks for the feedback!
That's an interesting way to do it

I think I've also seen leagues that do last playoff spot goes to the team with the next highest point total;
It's highly unlikely that such a huge difference in 'Points For' vs. 'Points Against' happens again (to me or any other owners)
I just know it was extremely frustrating & was wondering if anyone has done anything unique with regard to playoff seeding

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby bjd5211 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:03 pm

I use VP in a lot of my leagues and the standings are based upon that. Now if you still finished 9th in overall record VP probably shouldn't be weighted heavily enough to still get you in, but it does give you some credit for good performances in a loss. So one 12 team league for example the break down is:

Win: 3 VP
Tie: 1 VP (obviously highly unlikely with decimal scoring)
Top 4 in weekly scoring: 2 VP
Middle 4 in weekly scoring: 1 VP
Bottom 4 in weekly scoring: 0 VP

So if you finish 2nd in scoring for the week but happen to play the team that scores the most, you still get some credit in the standings. It is weighted heavily enough that H2H wins are still the most important factor though.

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby Csl312 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:15 pm

I once had the same thing happen to me. I scored the most points in the league (standard yahoo league) by 100 and ended up missing the playoffs. Statistical anomaly but it really sucks.

My dynasty league gives the top two playoff seeds to the conference winners with a bye. The next two spots are the next two best records. The last 2 spots are determined by whoever left has the highest points scored. There have been a couple complaints by guys who missed the playoffs because they had a better record but fewer points. Usually one of those last two would have made it in either way and the other is a team that just got unlucky with a bunch of unlikely losses. I think this is a good solution. It also serves as a minor tanking deterrent because if you are out of it by record you still might have a shot if you sustain a few high scoring weeks.

In my mind fantasy is a game about stats. H2H match ups are definitely more fun for the social aspects but sometimes we do things that the real NFL does that don't make that much sense. It's not like your roster and your opponent's each week have anything to do with one another - so why should that be the only factor that leads to a championship?

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby snaps06 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:51 pm

Simple fix: Add in a wildcard spot.

Let's say it's a 12 team league and 6 teams make the playoffs. Top-5 seeds are the top-5 H2H records. 6th see is the most points scored of the remaining teams.

That's what basically all of my leagues have done. No complaints, and makes the end of the regular season even more exciting.

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:25 am

This really isn't Dynasty Discussion. This is your league specific. You've been around here long enough to know this. Commish Corner or Team Advice would be more relevant. Simply state it's more league advice than Team Advice. This isn't a discussion about Dynasty Football, Players, coaches, team outlooks for the long term, etc. This is advice about a league your in, and it's parameters. It should not be on the main discussion page.
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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby Pac_Eddy » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:09 am

In most of my leagues, the last spot goes to the team with the most points-for of the remaining teams. This is for the reason you stated - it seems like some team every year puts up a ton of points but has a bad draw at weekly matchups. We all like this rule.

My favorite setup is victory points. Takes head to head and points-for into account every week.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby TheNuts » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:31 am

UnitedLoon wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:35 am
In my league, we have 10 team league, 6 teams make the playoffs. The top 5 seeds are determined by record. The final seed is determined by points scored.

My thoughts are: if you can't have a good enough record to be a top 5 seed and you also can't also be the highest scoring team of the remaining teams, you should have no complaint about not being in the playoffs. It's worked out pretty good so far. I missed the playoffs one year because of it. The team that made it in over me averaged 11pts more per game than me and swept me in the regular season, so I know he deserved it more than I did.
I like this method. Only 4 teams make it in my 10 team league, so we just go by record.

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby Prison_Mike » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:11 am

FantasyFreak wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:25 am
This really isn't Dynasty Discussion. This is your league specific. You've been around here long enough to know this. Commish Corner or Team Advice would be more relevant. Simply state it's more league advice than Team Advice. This isn't a discussion about Dynasty Football, Players, coaches, team outlooks for the long term, etc. This is advice about a league your in, and it's parameters. It should not be on the main discussion page.
Yikes, didn't know it was that deep man - my apologies

Tbh I wasn't too sure where this topic technically belongs. As you mentioned, it's not really team advice, nor am I the commissioner/can't make a decision on the rule change(s)

But either way, it was also meant to generate a discussion (as it has) of the different playoff structures within the dynasty community.
Sure, I used my specific example as a reference point and sought some advice on the matter, but was also interested in hearing what others have done with regard to playoff seeding.

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby jomaed » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:36 am

FantasyFreak wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:25 am
This really isn't Dynasty Discussion. This is your league specific. You've been around here long enough to know this. Commish Corner or Team Advice would be more relevant. Simply state it's more league advice than Team Advice. This isn't a discussion about Dynasty Football, Players, coaches, team outlooks for the long term, etc. This is advice about a league your in, and it's parameters. It should not be on the main discussion page.
A discussion about the playoff systems used in DYNASTY LEAGUES doesn't belong in the DYNASTY LEAGUE discussion forum?

The 2 division winners make the playoffs in my league. Then the 2 remaining teams with the highest points total regardless of the division also get in. Best of bost world IMO. Head to head still means something. And bad luck of always playing the highest scoring team is greatly reduced with the total points.

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby Prison_Mike » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:56 am

Csl312 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:15 pm
I once had the same thing happen to me. I scored the most points in the league (standard yahoo league) by 100 and ended up missing the playoffs. Statistical anomaly but it really sucks.

My dynasty league gives the top two playoff seeds to the conference winners with a bye. The next two spots are the next two best records. The last 2 spots are determined by whoever left has the highest points scored. There have been a couple complaints by guys who missed the playoffs because they had a better record but fewer points. Usually one of those last two would have made it in either way and the other is a team that just got unlucky with a bunch of unlikely losses. I think this is a good solution. It also serves as a minor tanking deterrent because if you are out of it by record you still might have a shot if you sustain a few high scoring weeks.

In my mind fantasy is a game about stats. H2H match ups are definitely more fun for the social aspects but sometimes we do things that the real NFL does that don't make that much sense. It's not like your roster and your opponent's each week have anything to do with one another - so why should that be the only factor that leads to a championship?
Well said, excellent point.
The skill aspect of fantasy football is being able to build a team that will consistently score more points than your league-mates
If you've done that but are still a losing team because of some unlucky weeks (& it's not like we can play defense lol), perhaps other factors need to come in to play

& to your point about complaints by those who missed playoffs with a better record:
That's true, I guess there would be complaints either way; I personally didn't complain & understand that it's unlikely to happen again, just wondered if there were better systems out there

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Re: Playoff Seeding Determination

Postby sloth8u » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:50 am

Ive never understood why owners want a yearly total (points scored) to factor in to a game we play by the week. If thats what they want....all play, best ball, or total points leagues are all out there for those who desire that.

I use victory pts in the leagues i commish. It takes everything in to consideration on a week to week basis. Ive dealt with complaints on both w vs l and total pts when the playoffs roll around but every single time ive been able to go back through the season and point to a few decisions that would have changed the final standings and the complaints are quieted.


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