Kliff and Kyler...The New NFL, Massive bust, or something in between?

[MindEracer]

My observation of most college QBs coming into the NFL. Is they never read the middle of the field well. The NFL most successful NFL offenses/QBs pick apart the middle of the field. That's were the best matchups are in the NFL. RBs/TE vs LBs or even Safeties that struggle to cover quicker then fast players. I have yet to see Kyler read a the middle of the field and thread a pass into an underneath route. Plus the best weapon is there running back, and to take advantage of that strength Kyler needs to have the ability to get under center, which I haven't seen yet either. I know it's only been 2 preseason games but, they don't seem to be working on those nuances in there offense. All his completed passes are on the outside, usually along the sidelines, nothing underneath. No deep in routes into the pocket behind the LBs and safeties etc. This might be due to his height, if you watch his college film he rarely threw the ball with bodies in front of him, let alone 6'4" D lineman that litter the box in the NFL.
Until he learns to read the middle of the field, and test the LBs and Safeties. I think he struggles and most likely busts. Mostly because I don't think a rookie NFL coach is going to have the ability to coach him through that. Sense he's a college oriented, and the college game is played outside the hash, and a ton of the NFL is played inside the hash.

[Blueboy]

The Browns offensive line is bleep too, are you all fading Baker, Chubb and Beckham as well? Or no because you've seen them be good so you don't have to use your awesome scouting skills? Burying the Cardinals after 2 meaningless pre-season games because you think you're an offensive line scout seems like terrible process to me but good luck.

There is a difference, despite both being bad. Arizona is maybe No. 30, Cleveland is like 22nd best.

How do you know that? They haven't played yet.

Every post on this site in the last seven months has been about extrapolating football data, despite football not being played. Who has a better WR group, Cleveland or Miami?

My observation of most college QBs coming into the NFL. Is they never read the middle of the field well. The NFL most successful NFL offenses/QBs pick apart the middle of the field. That's were the best matchups are in the NFL. RBs/TE vs LBs or even Safeties that struggle to cover quicker then fast players. I have yet to see Kyler read a the middle of the field and thread a pass into an underneath route. Plus the best weapon is there running back, and to take advantage of that strength Kyler needs to have the ability to get under center, which I haven't seen yet either. I know it's only been 2 preseason games but, they don't seem to be working on those nuances in there offense. All his completed passes are on the outside, usually along the sidelines, nothing underneath. No deep in routes into the pocket behind the LBs and safeties etc. This might be due to his height, if you watch his college film he rarely threw the ball with bodies in front of him, let alone 6'4" D lineman that litter the box in the NFL.
Until he learns to read the middle of the field, and test the LBs and Safeties. I think he struggles and most likely busts. Mostly because I don't think a rookie NFL coach is going to have the ability to coach him through that. Sense he's a college oriented, and the college game is played outside the hash, and a ton of the NFL is played inside the hash.

Good post. Kyler's ability to read the middle of the field is one thing I liked a lot about his college tape, but I also worry about his size impeding that at the NFL level.

[ericanadian]

The Browns offensive line is bleep too, are you all fading Baker, Chubb and Beckham as well? Or no because you've seen them be good so you don't have to use your awesome scouting skills? Burying the Cardinals after 2 meaningless pre-season games because you think you're an offensive line scout seems like terrible process to me but good luck.

There is a difference, despite both being bad. Arizona is maybe No. 30, Cleveland is like 22nd best.

How do you know that? They haven't played yet.

I’m not actually all that high on Mayfield, but to your point, the Browns were middle of the road for the year and were above average once Mayfield took over. They lost Zeitler, but even losing an elite guard only has so much of an impact. Should we expect a bit less efficiency from Chubb? Sure. I don’t expect much worse pass protection though. They also didn’t get humiliated by one of the worst pass rushing teams in the league this preseason.

Meanwhile, Arizona was bottom ten at best last year and the assumption that they’re supposed to be better this year is entirely based on guys like Iupati, Humphries & Pugh getting full seasons instead of half seasons. They also replaced Andre Smith with JR Sweezy. While in theory this makes some sense, they were maybe middle of the road with all those guys healthy for the first six games last year. Pugh still isn’t fully healthy even now and they just got embarrassed by a team who tied for the third lowest sack total in history last year.

Even with all that, I’m not saying it’s impossible for them to be good. I would assume they have new blocking schemes and maybe they gel as they become more familiar with that. Maybe they’re more suited to Kingsbury’s system than what they were using previously. I hope I’m wrong. I have Isabella and KeeSean, so them sucking does not help me at all. I think Murray is legit, even though I question the assertion that he’s one of the best QB prospects of all time. I think Kingsbury is highly questionable, but the offensive line isn’t totally his fault.

[TheNuts]

Murray just completed 66% of his passes tonight. Maybe that will stop the asinine judgements from week 2 of preseason?

[ericanadian]

Murray just completed 66% of his passes tonight. Maybe that will stop the asinine judgements from week 2 of preseason?

Nope. Line still looked like trash and he was relying on a lot of YAC. On the plus side, the defense looked much better than expect d.

[ArrylT]

Murray just completed 66% of his passes tonight. Maybe that will stop the asinine judgements from week 2 of preseason?

17 QBs (including Eli Manning) reached 66% completion ratio in 2018. That does not mean it isnt a good sign - just that it is more of the - he should be doing this in the new NFL than the OMG he did 66%. No need to double count since Murray is already considered an accurate QB on short/middle range imo.

[TheNuts]

Murray just completed 66% of his passes tonight. Maybe that will stop the asinine judgements from week 2 of preseason?

17 QBs (including Eli Manning) reached 66% completion ratio in 2018. That does not mean it isnt a good sign - just that it is more of the - he should be doing this in the new NFL than the OMG he did 66%. No need to double count since Murray is already considered an accurate QB on short/middle range imo.

Nowhere did i say 66% in a preseason game was super awesome greatness. I just think all the negative reaction from week 2 was reading waaaaaay too much into that game. Murray hitting 66% in this game shows that the offense isn't an abomination like some here have pegged it to be, and have pegged Murray as a bust for this draft position

[esloan35]

Murray just completed 66% of his passes tonight. Maybe that will stop the asinine judgements from week 2 of preseason?

17 QBs (including Eli Manning) reached 66% completion ratio in 2018. That does not mean it isnt a good sign - just that it is more of the - he should be doing this in the new NFL than the OMG he did 66%. No need to double count since Murray is already considered an accurate QB on short/middle range imo.

Nowhere did i say 66% in a preseason game was super awesome greatness. I just think all the negative reaction from week 2 was reading waaaaaay too much into that game. Murray hitting 66% in this game shows that the offense isn't an abomination like some here have pegged it to be, and have pegged Murray as a bust for this draft position

The line is trash and they will struggle until its addressed. The Bidwill family is cheap and refuses to spend money to build a top franchise. Murray did better with his legs and showed great touch with his passes but if he needs to protect the football. His technique running with the ball was a head scratcher. I drafted the guy in 2 leagues and like him. I hope he continues to be as advertised by the Murray truthers.

[ArrylT]

Murray just completed 66% of his passes tonight. Maybe that will stop the asinine judgements from week 2 of preseason?

17 QBs (including Eli Manning) reached 66% completion ratio in 2018. That does not mean it isnt a good sign - just that it is more of the - he should be doing this in the new NFL than the OMG he did 66%. No need to double count since Murray is already considered an accurate QB on short/middle range imo.

Nowhere did i say 66% in a preseason game was super awesome greatness. I just think all the negative reaction from week 2 was reading waaaaaay too much into that game. Murray hitting 66% in this game shows that the offense isn't an abomination like some here have pegged it to be, and have pegged Murray as a bust for this draft position

Fair enough! I can agree with that.

My reaction from the Week II was not that this is proof he is a bust, but rather this is a bit of proof that his rookie season may be quite bumpy, and the cost/benefit ratio is not one I am comfortable with yet. I do not think it will be Goff rookie level bad, just that it will be similar to say Trubisky or Wentz (both of whom were basically QB2s ppg in rookie season). Which at the cost of acquisition in SF compared to what it cost to get Murray was much safer.

I certainly am open to the idea that Kliff & Kyler will make believers out of us - but not a fan of the price needed to be one.

[TheNuts]

Hey that Murray kid looked pretty poised for his first NFL start. I bet by the end of the second quarter there were already a few people who had him pegged as a straight bust. I like what I see out of Fitzgerald

[ericanadian]

Hey that Murray kid looked pretty poised for his first NFL start. I bet by the end of the second quarter there were already a few people who had him pegged as a straight bust. I like what I see out of Fitzgerald

A part of it seemed to be that Detroit’s defense was gassed, but yes, he looked decent. I was surprised they couldn’t close the deal.

[Huh]

There were some bewildering play calls early in the game but they found a groove as it went on. Passes getting batted down might be a forever thing but I think there is major upside here given time.

[ArrylT]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out - 54 pass attempts is 17 more attempts than his previous career high. However his completion rate is comparable to that game against Alabama (closest comparable college team to NFL Def?).

19/37 = 51.4%.
29/54 = 53.7%

So that could be an indication of what his first year pass completion rate will be - or it could just be a 1 game anomaly.

If he continues to get this volume, which could be likely if many teams shut him down at first but then 2nd half get tired / play prevent, then he'll continue to be a low end QB1 rather than a mid QB2. All in all, a pretty good nutshell of what to expect going forward perhaps - bumpy patches with flashes of excellences. Plenty of 3 & outs followed by some impressive drives.

[FantasyFreak]

Hey that Murray kid looked pretty poised for his first NFL start. I bet by the end of the second quarter there were already a few people who had him pegged as a straight bust. I like what I see out of Fitzgerald

He looked OK. I think he will be a decent NFL player, but I don't see elite with him.

[metalmat]

The Murray to Fitz connection was lighting up as the game went on. I'm still dubious on how well Murray will be as a passer in the league, the Lions really let of the gas in the 4th quarter. The main thing I took from Murray though, and it's obvious, but he is FAST.